Cloverleaf Firearms Group
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If you can dodge a wrench... You can shoot ISO
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Isosceles or Weaver stance
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In God We Trust
NES Member
The FBI used to teach an advanced pistol instructor course at Devens and I was lucky enough to get a chance to go through it.
They teach a "modified weaver" which is basically an Iso, but with your left foot (if you're right handed) slightly forward. As if you were getting ready to fight with someone. I really like it and it feels more natural to me than either stance by itself
They teach a "modified weaver" which is basically an Iso, but with your left foot (if you're right handed) slightly forward. As if you were getting ready to fight with someone. I really like it and it feels more natural to me than either stance by itself
Thats how I shoot really. Upper body is squared up, arms extended, back muscles set, but the toes of my right foot are about inline with the ball of my left foot. Your left hand is going to be slightly forward to the right because it is in front on the pistol. Some of that is picked up by the bend in the left elbow, but there is still a very slight rearward shift of the right shoulder, so it makes sense to being the right food back a smidge as well.
You need to learn to shoot with your feet in other positions.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
In another thread in the last couple of days, someone was saying they knew a blind guy, a legit blind guy with a gun permit. Said he's good for hitting anyone who touches him.
I think after watching this, I'm taking my sights off the hand guns. Who needs the extra wasted weight when you're carrying all the time.
Shooting without sights is pretty easy once you have a good grip and trigger press
As much as I favor Iso over Weaver, this video is bullshit, and typical Pincus. It's not even close to a representative test.
"Here I will have my disciple shoot in this "bad" stance."
"Oh, look how bad it is."
"Here I will have my disciple shoot in this "good" stance."
"Oh, look how good it is."
And, Weaver is somehow a "target stance?" Although it has lost favor (understandably), it was the stance for IPSC and "Practical" shooting.
I would have like to see Pincus at Gunsite telling them all about their "target" stance.
And when I say "Pincus," you Seinfeld fans should be hearing "Newman."
Cloverleaf Firearms Group
Instructor
There should be a video about why not to watch that video.
^ Nailed it.
I'd put it around 20% right after watching it.
Retired-LEO
NES Member
This is one of my favorite Youtube videos on stance. Very well done.
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Weaver was the stance in USPSA/IPSC back when a 10 second El Prez was considered fast...about the same era Gunsite was relevant too
What part of that statement is inconsistent with what I said, or do you just like restating stuff?
I patent pending/trademarked "I-weave-a-lot" after watching a vid on the ewe toobs by a trainor that rhymes with "Incus" and starts with a P...
I came in late, pg 4 had all the IncusPay bashing taken care of - my bad for shooting on Saturday instead of logging on here.
Good job Men - good convo, smart talking points, not a lot of BS and zero ass-grabbery. Wish I could say the same about the "equipment" thread...
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I'm just saying that IPSC no longer uses weaver because it has been shown in skills test like EL Prez that ISO is better. And that Gunsite has not evolved with the times
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I really meant to try this today, but I got distracted by taking a REALLY good nap instead. Hopefully tomorrow. I've always found isosceles to be very unnatural, and have shot from a modified Weaver as long as I can remember, but seeing so many people that DO know better than I do explaining why that's the wrong way to do it is making me want to revisit my shooting.
Weaver to contrary to humans natural reaction to face square with the threat, one would be better off training with the ISO due to its parallel to the human fight or flight response.
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To me, isosceles has always (okay, "has always" is a stretch since I abandoned it long ago) felt very forced and unnatural, whereas a modified Weaver has always felt comfortable and natural. Never gave it a second thought until reading this thread, which prompted me to read further. I figure it's worth revisiting and giving it a try - worst case scenario, I burn a few bucks and twenty minutes work in ammo components and prove it's really hard to teach an old (middle-aged) dog new tricks. I think once I move to an area where there are some legitimate pistol instructors I really need to (and want to) avail myself of some professional help. I'm by no means a BAD shot, but I'm not so arrogant to think I don't have plenty of room for improvement.
I started shooting Weaver and it felt very natural and comfortable. I think it's because I used to do some martial arts and boxing - similar stance. After recognizing the benefits of iso, I switched and haven't looked back since.
Most people do a modified version of the ISO and Weaver together. If it works for that person, I can't really argue with what works best for them.
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I'm a rebel, I use the AC Slater position ![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
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Don't know. Maybe it's some subliminal shit reminding me my back and knees are shot, maybe I'm just not used to it. Honestly - it's probably because it was long enough ago that I felt more comfortable NOT shooting that way and not trying anything else that it just stuck. I'm a creature of habit. Maybe it's just because I'm an odd MF'er.
But seeing your opinion and those of a few other reputable shooters here makes me think I should revisit this topic. I just need to get my ass in the truck and drive upriver to go shooting instead of taking a nap tomorrow. Easier said than done...
TheGreekFreak
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Weaver is pre ban and therefore Mass compliant while Iso is post ban, or so I'm told. I'm most comfortable somewhat in between the two so I'm in the gray area.
What is it about Iso that feels unnatural?
If you prefer to have your strong foot back a bit, you can shoot Iso that way. Just extend both your arms.
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I agree with this, which is why Weaver came so naturally to me. I spent most of my life practicing various fighting disciplines and because of that, a "fighting stance", which Weaver resembles is what my body does instinctively. I have been trying very hard to adapt to Iso, but intrinsic movements are hard to break. Even if I manage to do it at the range consistently, I'm not convinced that it will be as deeply ingrained into muscle memory as I would want if I'm ever in a high stress encounter. Not sure how much stance will really matter anyway as long as I hit what I'm aiming at.
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