Isosceles or Weaver stance

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kalash

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Well, just pointing out that the thug on a Chicago street has probably survived more gunfights than the gamesmen have. They don't even wear a holster and have no idea what iso is.
Are you suggesting that none of us should get training, compete, or wear holsters?
 

bigblue

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Well, just pointing out that the thug on a Chicago street has probably survived more gunfights than the gamesmen have. They don't even wear a holster and have no idea what iso is.


That has no bearing to the current discussion unless you can identify what stance the thugs in Chicago use and whether they got Costa trained first. Real world experience in a gun fight is only relevant if you have information about the gun fights and certainly does not invalidate training. As has been stated numerous times, many of the top shooters did, in fact, come from the military and have been in combat. To add on to that, many of the top competition shooters train the top .mil & LEO shooters for real world combat and gun fights (JJ Racaza is a great example). Seriously, you are nothing more than a troll without a leg to stand on.

Do you even shoot?
 

drgrant

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Well, just pointing out that the thug on a Chicago street has probably survived more gunfights than the gamesmen have. They don't even wear a holster and have no idea what iso is.

Yeah, if your idea of a gunfight is guys driving around randomly firing bullets, then yes, they've "survived more gunfights". [rofl] Again, you just keep setting up the strawmans to try to shore up a sloppy argument.

-Mike
 
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Little summery of how we got to iso and feel free to follow up on the names. When Ross Seyfried was ipsc campion he pretty much shot 45's and used a weaver grip. He moved on from shooting because there was no challege, nobody could beat him.

First guy to change things in my memory was Ray Chapman who still used a 45 but went to a modified grip by straightening one arm.

By memery I believe it was Rob Leatham that came up with iso and the way it came about is he didn't want to shoot the way it had always been done so him and the guys changed the entire game. First he studied the rule book and found the 38 super would make major. Light kicking compensated guns that had more ammo capacity made higher scores easily. Since the gun didn't kick they could use a turret type stance and develope a grip to go with it.

Never enough to win the game they added red dots and scopes to the gun plus guns that held 20 rounds of 38 super. The game became the game and had nothing to do with what the founding fathers intentions were for it. Originaly it was supposed to be about learning what works best for survival but turned to a game.

If you are interested look up Ross and the gear he wore then compare to Leatham. By the way Leatham is by far the best games man ever and uses Iso to win.
 
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Are you suggesting that none of us should get training, compete, or wear holsters?

No sir and I am not suggesting you go out and look for gunfights to improve your skill, just saying what your enemy does. The reason you wear a gun is to survive the thug.
 

drgrant

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Never enough to win the game they added red dots and scopes to the gun plus guns that held 20 rounds of 38 super.

Yeah, and again, those are divisions you can choose to participate in, or not. There are plenty of "basic scrubs" like me that show up with guns that aren't much different from stuff you get off the shelf.

The game became the game and had nothing to do with
what the founding fathers intentions were for it. Originally it was supposed to be about learning what works best for survival but turned to a game.

It was always a game if you don't believe this then you're delusional. At one point, IDPA types thought by changing things up a bit and making it more aggravating that they were making something other than a game, but the reality was all they did was create another game, one that was more aggravating. [laugh]

You can't compete and keep score without creating a game in the process. It's the nature of competition.

-Mike
 
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That has no bearing to the current discussion unless you can identify what stance the thugs in Chicago use and whether they got Costa trained first. Real world experience in a gun fight is only relevant if you have information about the gun fights and certainly does not invalidate training. As has been stated numerous times, many of the top shooters did, in fact, come from the military and have been in combat. To add on to that, many of the top competition shooters train the top .mil & LEO shooters for real world combat and gun fights (JJ Racaza is a great example). Seriously, you are nothing more than a troll without a leg to stand on.

Do you even shoot?

You are trolling for attention, I won't give it to you if you can't be civil. However I would like to see you try to swim the river with the amount of ammo I have shot..[laugh]
 

bigblue

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I think he's saying we should get training from drug dealers.


A new Costa training opportunity! Real world gunfights where you get to shoot out tires on moving vehicles instead of shooting the student vehicles.
 

kalash

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No sir and I am not suggesting you go out and look for gunfights to improve your skill, just saying what your enemy does. The reason you wear a gun is to survive the thug.
What the hell does that have to do with Weaver or iso????
 

bigblue

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You are trolling for attention, I won't give it to you if you can't be civil. However I would like to see you try to swim the river with the amount of ammo I have shot..[laugh]


Nah, your entire contribution (lack thereof) to this entire thread is nothing more than trolling. You repeatedly refuse to actually address the base argument. That is the very definition of a troll.
 

kalash

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Let's not forget how this all started:
I shoot weaver because my guns recoil so I like a faster recovery for the second shot. I like my arms lower to give more protection to my body and less distance to travel on a reload.
Without once again taking us off-topic into Chicago gangbanger territory, can you actually explain why Weaver is better for controlling recoil and why it allows for faster follow-up shots?
 
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Yeah, and again, those are divisions you can choose to participate in, or not. There are plenty of "basic scrubs" like me that show up with guns that aren't much different from stuff you get off the shelf.



It was always a game if you don't believe this then you're delusional. At one point, IDPA types thought by changing things up a bit and making it more aggravating that they were making something other than a game, but the reality was all they did was create another game, one that was more aggravating. [laugh]

You can't compete and keep score without creating a game in the process. It's the nature of competition.

-Mike

Ya they did try to bring it back to carry guns and real equipment, obviously nobody would carry in an open appendix draw a scope sited 20 round 38 super. Good men always compete at what they do, it's our nature but it only helps our ability to shoot the game.
 
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Let's not forget how this all started:

Without once again taking us off-topic into Chicago gangbanger territory, can you actually explain why Weaver is better for controlling recoil and why it allows for faster follow-up shots?

I'd like to know why Weaver allows for faster reloads. Can Jim post a Weaver dude making a 1 sec reload? I'd like to see it.
 
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Nah, your entire contribution (lack thereof) to this entire thread is nothing more than trolling. You repeatedly refuse to actually address the base argument. That is the very definition of a troll.

It's all right, you can talk to someone else[laugh] I can't see a thing you have added but insults.
 
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Let's not forget how this all started:

Without once again taking us off-topic into Chicago gangbanger territory, can you actually explain why Weaver is better for controlling recoil and why it allows for faster follow-up shots?

All I can do is point you back to the big bore video in the thread and how the auto jammed repeatedly. Watch it and study how the flopping of the gun made it not run. When the gun fires if it isn't in a firm grip the next round down moves forward under recoil. The gun won't feed then. Tell you what, next time you go to the range or find a safe place try this with you semi guns. Load the mag up and insert it into the gun. Operate the slide to load it, put the safety on and pull out the loaded magazine. Look at the next round and in a lot of guns that round gets drug forward out of position.

Now think about that under a flopping recoil, what's that next round ups position?
 
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I think he's saying we should get training from drug dealers.

Not training but you should learn how they fight...[smile]

- - - Updated - - -

I'd like to know why Weaver allows for faster reloads. Can Jim post a Weaver dude making a 1 sec reload? I'd like to see it.

[laugh] you really should appreciate me being around, I make you look smart..[rofl]
 

drgrant

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However I would like to see you try to swim the river with the amount of ammo I have shot..[laugh]

LOL, that actually means something? I've probably fired more ammo than 80% of the forum, but I'll be the first to tell someone that does NOT make me an expert shooter. [rofl]

-Mike
 

kalash

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All I can do is point you back to the big bore video in the thread and how the auto jammed repeatedly. Watch it and study how the flopping of the gun made it not run. When the gun fires if it isn't in a firm grip the next round down moves forward under recoil. The gun won't feed then. Tell you what, next time you go to the range or find a safe place try this with you semi guns. Load the mag up and insert it into the gun. Operate the slide to load it, put the safety on and pull out the loaded magazine. Look at the next round and in a lot of guns that round gets drug forward out of position.

Now think about that under a flopping recoil, what's that next round ups position?
Explain this then:

 
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LOL, that actually means something? I've probably fired more ammo than 80% of the forum, but I'll be the first to tell someone that does NOT make me an expert shooter. [rofl]

-Mike

Never said I was an expert but you won't find a good shooter that hasn't shot a lot of ammo. So it looks like Big Blue felt the need to give me my first and only negative feedback, thanks Blue
 

bigblue

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Never said I was an expert but you won't find a good shooter that hasn't shot a lot of ammo. So it looks like Big Blue felt the need to give me my first and only negative feedback, thanks Blue

You earned it.

Please continue to not extol the virtues of this Weaver stance no active competitive or combat shooter uses.

I bet I shot more rounds last weekend than you did all last year: Still not relevant to the discussion.
 
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Explain this then:



Thanks for proving my point, the guns run well when fully supported. If you compare the other shooters straight arms and flopping gun to Jerry's bent arms with muscle support then you can see why Jerry's gun run
 
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drgrant

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All I can do is point you back to the big bore video in the thread and how the auto jammed repeatedly. Watch it and study how the flopping of the gun made it not run. When the gun fires if it isn't in a firm grip the next round down moves forward under recoil. The gun won't feed then. Tell you what, next time you go to the range or find a safe place try this with you semi guns. Load the mag up and insert it into the gun. Operate the slide to load it, put the safety on and pull out the loaded magazine. Look at the next round and in a lot of guns that round gets drug forward out of position.

Now think about that under a flopping recoil, what's that next round ups position?

Again you're citing some guy with a deagle as an example of how ISO sucks as a shooting stance? Not sure if serious. A gun that uses a weird hybrid gas and recoil operating system is not representative of 99.9% of autoloading handguns on the market. Even so much as looking at those guns the wrong way can cause them to jam.

-Mike
 
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By memery I believe it was Rob Leatham that came up with iso and the way it came about is he didn't want to shoot the way it had always been done so him and the guys changed the entire game. First he studied the rule book and found the 38 super would make major. Light kicking compensated guns that had more ammo capacity made higher scores easily. Since the gun didn't kick they could use a turret type stance and develope a grip to go with it.
.

What about 9x25? that was a pretty brutal round. And open gun do recoil, but its it's more a slap to the hand then a push to the wrist
 
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jim needs to post videos of his superior shooting or he needs to STFU and to sit down when he pees.

goddamn dude, enough ruining this thread already. go back to the trump leg-hump-fest where you belong.
 
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