Is your ID linked to your LTC?

[NeverMiss]

Quick question...

Is my ID (driver's licence) somehow linked to my LTC? Meaning, if I give an LEO my driver's licence at a traffic stop, will his computer in the car tell him I have a LTC? Then, will he come and ask "are you currently armed?"

 

[JFR2]

MSP can. Here's a snap of a text I had with a friend who is a Trooper.
ETA: I may pull this post, but I think it's OK.

 

[glide]

From other threads; they can see that info if they run your license but they have to be looking for it. A flashing siren will not pop up on their screen that says ***Armed and Dangerous***.

In theory, it could happen. In which case you should respond truthfully.

 

[mllanes]

if i was in my town, i probably wouldnt mention it unless asked. I dont mind giving the cops here a hard time because i know a lot of them

if i was in a different town, thats another story.

 

[Rifling]

A similar question came up during my firearms safety class and we were advised not to mention that you have a firearm unless asked.

 

[Racenet]

It is very simple. If it isn't required, by law, STFU!

 

[Len-2A Training]

A similar question came up during my firearms safety class and we were advised not to mention that you have a firearm unless asked.

This is a wise answer!!

No, doing a DL query will NOT show anything about firearms licenses.

They can get that info with a separate query, which they won't usually run unless they have a reason to do so.

In your own town, they will also usually query the local PD database which will have that info and any other encounters that you've had with your local PD . . . everything from a called in complaint about your neighbor's barking dog to alarm calls to what you last had for lunch (kidding, but only about this last one)!

 

[shootback]

I know some states require that you inform an officer (that you have a gun) as soon as you are pulled over. Is MA one of those states?

 

[JFR2]

I know some states require that you inform an officer (that you have a gun) as soon as you are pulled over. Is MA one of those states?

No.

-JR

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I know some states require that you inform an officer (that you have a gun) as soon as you are pulled over. Is MA one of those states?

No.

A couple years back I was sitting in the back of a state police cruiser one dark night and the trooper showed me exactly what it looks like on the MDT.

 

[M1911]

I know some states require that you inform an officer (that you have a gun) as soon as you are pulled over.

Yes.

Is MA one of those states?

No.

 

[mrjones]

I occasionally hear Boston PD dispatchers mention it to their officers when they have people pulled over or otherwise in their custody. It also comes up as a premise, I believe, on your street address.

 

[GSG]

Then, will he come and ask "are you currently armed?"

It's interesting to note that there's a prevailing opinion in some circles that you have a duty to notify LE you are armed, even though there isn't a legal requirement to do so. Check out pages 8-11 of this link:
http://www.mass.gov/anf/docs/csc/decisions/bypass/khalife-antoine-092508.pdf

If they ask, tell, and if you're being spoken to for anything other than a routine traffic stop, it's probably a good idea to tell them first.

 

[Rick8325]

I find myself having to disclose that I am carrying. I'm a lefty so it's usually on my hip or in the waistband on my back and chances are the officer will definitely see it when I'm reaching into my glove box for my registration. I wont be reaching into my pocket or glove box for my info before the cop arrives at my window either for obvious reasons. My bro-in-law is a local cop and I've ran it by him many times and he claims most cops want you to disclose it no matter what. He also said he can only see if they have an LTC if they live in the city he patrols because they use a local database and do not have access or software for NCIC.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's interesting to note that there's a prevailing opinion in some circles that you have a duty to notify LE you are armed, even though there isn't a legal requirement to do so. Check out pages 8-11 of this link:
http://www.mass.gov/anf/docs/csc/decisions/bypass/khalife-antoine-092508.pdf

If they ask, tell, and if you're being spoken to for anything other than a routine traffic stop, it's probably a good idea to tell them first.

That is a VERY DIFFERENT type of police encounter (I read much of that case). Also if it was properly concealed, they wouldn't have spotted it. Walking into a search for evidence of a crime with a gun will indeed get the reaction he got. They really treated him OK . . . they took precautions until they ID'd him as a "good guy" and then released him. The issues about not getting a LE job is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

I find myself having to disclose that I am carrying. I'm a lefty so it's usually on my hip or in the waistband on my back and chances are the officer will definitely see it when I'm reaching into my glove box for my registration. I wont be reaching into my pocket or glove box for my info before the cop arrives at my window either for obvious reasons. My bro-in-law is a local cop and I've ran it by him many times and he claims most cops want you to disclose it no matter what. He also said he can only see if they have an LTC if they live in the city he patrols because they use a local database and do not have access or software for NCIC.

NCIC has nothing to do with who does/doesn't have a LTC/permit. It's a criminal database maintained by the Feds.

And some town's MDTs can access LTC data (if they wish) directly and others can't and have to have Dispatch do it for them.

 

[M1911]

I'm a lefty so it's usually on my hip or in the waistband on my back and chances are the officer will definitely see it when I'm reaching into my glove box for my registration.

So don't keep our registration in the glove box. Put it in your center console. My truck has a pocket in the sunshade.

 

[Rick8325]

So don't keep our registration in the glove box. Put it in your center console. My truck has a pocket in the sunshade.

Either way I still have to go to my right to get to it, possibly exposing my firearm. I wear a hooded sweatshirt all winter so it will be seen if I'm reaching over or around. I especially have to reach around to the lock and unlock both locks for console and glove box. I drive a Wrangler with zip windows so everything is locked. No visor pocket either.

 

[M1911]

Either way I still have to go to my right to get to it, possibly exposing my firearm.

Not if you put in your sun vizor. Just reach up in front of you.

I've been stopped once while carrying. He didn't ask, I didn't volunteer, and he gave me break, issuing me a warning and sent me on my way.

 

[45collector]

So don't keep our registration in the glove box. Put it in your center console. My truck has a pocket in the sunshade.

Yup. If I'm being pulled over, I have my DL and reg ready, and my interior lights on (if its night) before officer gets to my window. I've never said anything about guns and have never been asked. Well, besides the MSP trooper who pulled me over in my old Mustang leaving the Marlboro show years back. I had a NIB pistol, ammo, AK drum magazine, holsters etc... sitting on the passenger seat. He looked at all that after looking at my DL/ reg, and said
"You just leaving the gun show?"
"Yes sir."
"Your inspection sticker's expired. Get that taken care of. Have a nice day."
Didn't even ask for my LTC. Nice guy.

 

[DudeTotallyKyle]

Also when you're buying ammo or guns or something, they could scan your fingerprint and it could show your picture, or they could look up your LTC number and it would show your picture.

It's so someone cant steal your LTC/FID and buy guns/etc with it.

 

[In God We Trust]

It's interesting to note that there's a prevailing opinion in some circles that you have a duty to notify LE you are armed, even though there isn't a legal requirement to do so. Check out pages 8-11 of this link:
http://www.mass.gov/anf/docs/csc/decisions/bypass/khalife-antoine-092508.pdf

If they ask, tell, and if you're being spoken to for anything other than a routine traffic stop, it's probably a good idea to tell them first.

After reading through that case, the old saying comes to mind "don't talk to the police". That guy got hosed out of a police job for no other reason than consenting to a search and having the audacity to show up in HIS OWN STORE, LEGALLY ARMED while there were two cops there conducting a search that HE CONSENTED to.

 

[Rick8325]

Not if you put in your sun vizor. Just reach up in front of you.

I've been stopped once while carrying. He didn't ask, I didn't volunteer, and he gave me break, issuing me a warning and sent me on my way.

Ummm I just said I drive a Wrangler and there is also no visor pocket.

 

[GSG]

That is a VERY DIFFERENT type of police encounter (I read much of that case). Also if it was properly concealed, they wouldn't have spotted it. Walking into a search for evidence of a crime with a gun will indeed get the reaction he got. They really treated him OK . . . they took precautions until they ID'd him as a "good guy" and then released him. The issues about not getting a LE job is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Agreed, my point is that when pulled over for a traffic infraction there's generally no need to notify, but you can get quite the hassle if you don't in a different kind of encounter. He was probably handcuffed at gunpoint, which is something I've never experienced & don't ever plan to. Here's an NES user who didn't notify & got himself in some hot water:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ing-that-happen-to-you-when-you-carried/page2

I was pulled over by the Boston cops on 93 and accused of "shooting up" a bar in Kenmore Square at 3:00 AM. I was pulled over because my car (silver Corvette) and I matched the desription of the shooter and his ride. Things got a little worse when a search of my person turned up my model 60 in an IWB holster.

I told the cops I had nothing to do with the shooting and that the 60 hadn't been fired in months. A check of the 60 revealed some serious dust bunnys in the barrel (thank God I never cleaned the little devil) which calmed the LE personnel down quite a bit. I still had to wait for an eye witness to be driven to the scene (they got lost) to clear me. I got lucky, the guy had good eye sight and a good memory, so I got to go home, two hours late.

His encounter started as a routine traffic stop too. I'm only pointing out that people should be thinking in advance about whether or not notifying is a good idea in one situation or another. Sometimes speaking up creates problems, other times it prevents them.

After reading through that case, the old saying comes to mind "don't talk to the police". That guy got hosed out of a police job for no other reason than consenting to a search and having the audacity to show up in HIS OWN STORE, LEGALLY ARMED while there were two cops there conducting a search that HE CONSENTED to.

Well arguably he lost the shot at the job because he never mentioned the encounter when it came to background forms, and some other similar issues. But it certainly seems like he waited out the search in handcuffs in the back of a cruiser while they finished looking around.

 

[M1911]

Ummm I just said I drive a Wrangler and there is also no visor pocket.

Sorry, I missed that. Yup, you don't want it up on the visor. I still don't see why the center console would be a problem, but then I've never driven a Wrangler.

 

[M1911]

His encounter started as a routine traffic stop too. I'm only pointing out that people should be thinking in advance about whether or not notifying is a good idea in one situation or another. Sometimes speaking up creates problems, other times it prevents them.

If the officer tells you step out of the car, that is probably a good time to notify, because he is most likely going to do a Terry frisk.

 

[Len-2A Training]

If the officer tells you step out of the car, that is probably a good time to notify, because he is most likely going to do a Terry frisk.

Generally in MA on a traffic stop, if they do this, you are going to be getting a pair of silver bracelets or a sobriety check. It's NOT done for routine traffic infractions.

 

[M1911]

Generally in MA on a traffic stop, if they do this, you are going to be getting a pair of silver bracelets or a sobriety check. It's NOT done for routine traffic infractions.

Yes, of course they don't pull you out of the car for a routine traffic stop. But if they tell you to get out of the car, even if they are doing a sobriety check, what is the first thing they are going to do?

Most likely a Terry frisk.

 

[Len-2A Training]

M1911, I agree fully. If they ask you to get out of the car . . . hands at 10 & 2 and advise the PO that you have a LTC and are carrying and ask him/her how they'd like you to proceed.

 

[OfficerObie59]

From other threads; they can see that info if they run your license but they have to be looking for it. A flashing siren will not pop up on their screen that says ***Armed and Dangerous***.

In theory, it could happen. In which case you should respond truthfully.

NCIC has nothing to do with who does/doesn't have a LTC/permit. It's a criminal database maintained by the Feds.

And some town's MDTs can access LTC data (if they wish) directly and others can't and have to have Dispatch do it for them.

This.

While I'm sure it's accessible from some cruiser MDT's, I can't even look up an LTC--I have to have dispatch run it from our CJIS terminal.

Either way, the officer would have to go looking for it. Unlike warrants and a notification that there's a CORI on file (not what's specifically on it), FIDs and LTCs do not pop up when running a license or registration.

As far as telling the officer on a traffic stop, while every officer is different, I always appreciate it. Frankly, if you're willing to tell me you're carrying at a traffic stop, you're the guy I'm least likely to worry about.

 

[terraformer]

As far as telling the officer on a traffic stop, while every officer is different, I always appreciate it. Frankly, if you're willing to tell me you're carrying at a traffic stop, you're the guy I'm least likely to worry about.

The problem is, even if you are part of the majority, which in this state I am not so sure about, and ignoring the rational middle group (whom I believe is likely the true majority here) who are sufficiently distrustful of LTC holders but who are otherwise sane, the third group, the actual very small minority of "true believers" that LTC holders are criminals who haven't been caught yet, can do so much damage to someone when the officer freaks out over the presence of an LTC divulged* that it's not worth it. It doesn't happen often, but it has happened and just the small chance of it happening is enough to warrant the silence. Also, and I know you know this, that creating the dialogue on that issue can lead to further dialogue which can be twisted into the PC needed to open the car up to search.

As distrustful as you need to be of every motorist you stop, it's equally advisable for the motorists to be distrustful of the officer doing the stopping. The system is set up that way where the threat of the 1% cause the 99% to be at odds. The remedies available to the motorist can still leave their lives devastated from charges that are dropped. The exclusionary rule (to the extent it even applies if the motorist engages in idle chit chat) is not sufficiently protective of people's rights to avoid significant personal loss beyond criminal conviction. The financial, professional and emotional toll a needlessly escalated interaction with police exacts on lives is not worth the benefit of letting an officer like you know he is "among friends" with the person he is interacting with.

BTW: That small minority are the ones who start lecturing and carrying on about why one didn't divulge without any hint of irony that the tirade they are on is answering the question of why the motorist didn't divulge.

* I am not saying to lie if asked BTW, only don't volunteer