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Is this bad form?

The following is what I consider bad form:
Earlier in the year my son and I went to The Pemi F&G in Holderness, NH. There were a few guys packing their stuff and getting ready to leave as we were unpacking. Up pulls a huge Lexus with mass plates. The guy sits there for a while then gets out and asked if everyone was leaving. Before we could answer, and with a straight face, he said "Can you all leave, I like to shoot alone." I laughed right in his face. He drove off in a huff. My son and I really enjoyed the day at the range. And some people wonder where the term "ma**h***" came from.
 
Any time the range is about to go hot, it should be announced beforehand, making sure that everyone on the line is aware of it. It's not just a courtesy issue, it's a safety issue.
 
Another poster alluded to this but it hasn't been said loud enough.

When there are multiple shooters at any range and the range goes hot, it's someone's responsibility to call "Range is Hot" loud enough for everyone to hear and to physically check that everyone heard. At our range we always look up and down the line before firing. We are ALL range officers, after all.


If you arrive and hear shooting, you should simply have your muffs available to slip on as you unload. Then, you prepare while they finish their round and ask for a cease-fire. You get EVERYONE's attention before proceeding. When you're done, you once again get everyone's attention to call the range "hot" and you're all muffed up.

To just start firing without warning other shooters is very bad form, period.

Rome
 
At my club the first one there is the designated "range officer" by default. It would fall on them to make sure all safety rules are followed, including eyes, ears, etc. Announcement of going hot is a must and prevents these types of problems.
 
Since I purchased electronic ear muffs, I don't ever want or need to take my hearing protection off. I put it on when I get out of the car and take it off when I get back in the car. Simple as that.

I agree it's your own personal responsibility to make sure you've got hearing protection on, but I've run into enough people who are lax about safety that I always try to keep an eye on what the other shooters on the line are doing. If not for their sake, at least for mine. If I notice an issue, I'll mention it. If I get lip, I'll usually pack up and leave. Not worth it shooting around folks who are careless or have an attitude.

Just the other day I was at HSC. I had been shooting for a while at the 25 yard, and there was a father and his two boys at the 50 yard. I had just removed my spent magazine, loaded up a new one, and chambered a round, when I saw out of the corner of my eye one of the kids about a third of the way down the range. I obviously cleared the gun as quickly as possible, and then headed over and told the dad that I was hot while his son was walking down range. He looked at me like I had two heads and said, "So? You were shooting on the pistol range, weren't you?" "Yeah, like 20 minutes ago, and I told you I was going hot at the 25 yard about 10 minutes go." Blank staring on his part. Cluelessness is not a good thing on the line.
 
Pilgrim said:
We told them that they should put on their 'ears' and they said that they didn't' have any and didn't need any. We told them that they really should and that the noise would damage their hearing. Just shoot, we're ok, was the response.
...

What would you have done?
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I'd just call/email the range chair and let him know.

Cabinetman said:
When there are multiple shooters at any range and the range goes hot, it's someone's responsibility to call "Range is Hot" loud enough for everyone to hear and to physically check that everyone heard. At our range we always look up and down the line before firing. We are ALL range officers, after all.
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I think, in deference to Jesse Jackson, the correct phraseology is "Hot range is hot". [smile]
 
Gammon said:
I agree that it is common courtesy to warn people on the range that you are about to shoot BUT no one should be present at an active range without hearing protection in place. The bottom line is that it is your resposibility to protect your hearing.
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I tend to agree. If I am on a range I always have my hearing protection and eye protection on.

It would have been nice if they mentioned it to you anyway... Its just courtesy. I will usually look around before I start shooting to make sure everyone is set. Just a habbit I picked up from the guys that taught me the ins and outs of shooting.

I love it [hmmm] when I am on the range (this happend at MRA a couple of times this year) shooting and I turn around to see someone cleaning up their mess WITHOUT their glasses on while I or others are shooting.
Me: Excuse me. You need to put your glasses on.
Them (Looking at me like as if to say screw you): I am not shooting.
Me: It doesn't matter you need them on in here.
Them (more pissed): I am leaving anyway.
Me: Buddy, believe me I am doing YOU a favor. If you are in here you need them on.
 
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Pilgrim said:
What would you have done here........

My son and I were at our range..under the covered shooting area. No one else was there.

We were unloading and setting up our stuff when this mother and father with two young teenage kids come in and set up about 50 feet from us.

Just as we were going to start firing, we looked over and no one in the family had hearing protection of any kind.

We told them that they should put on their 'ears' and they said that they didn't' have any and didn't need any. We told them that they really should and that the noise would damage their hearing. Just shoot, we're ok, was the response.

My son and I looked at each other, I said if the fool parents want to go deaf, that's their problem but I won;t deafen the kids, and he agreed.

We left.

What would you have done?
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The same...I could care less about the parents, but I won't damage a kid's hearing or take the risk of doing so.

Mark L.
 
derek said:
Baby sitting? Every time I've shot with you at harvard and we go down range to put up new targets, we ALWAYS let the others know we are going hot again.

It's not babysitting, it's common f-ing courtesy. [thinking]
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Talking ears brother,not hot and cold ranges.Two totally differant scenarios...if you walk on to a range,always assume it's hot.

Personally,I check and see if people have ears on and if they don't I kinda say ready to go or something.

But..If I come to the line without my ears and someone shoots,it's my dumb ass decision to walk to the line without proper protection and hold no-one responsible but myself.
 
Greg said:
Talking ears brother,not hot and cold ranges.Two totally differant scenarios...if you walk on to a range,always assume it's hot.

Personally,I check and see if people have ears on and if they don't I kinda say ready to go or something.

But..If I come to the line without my ears and someone shoots,it's my dumb ass decision to walk to the line without proper protection and hold no-one responsible but myself.
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I thought he was referring to the range being cold then going hot.
 
Communication is key and can prevent accidents, but it is YOUR responsiblity to make sure your ear protection is on at all times when no cease fire has been declared.

Short story, may be bad form on their part, or may not be, but your hearing will pay the price either way.
 
Clearly bad form and poor manners.[angry] Common courtesy is lost in today's society, I guess our sub-culture is not exempt.
 
If you're at a club, file a complaint with your BOD. Even at the seemingly lawless MRA, I've never had a problem with anyone about cease-fires and the like.
 
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vellnueve said:
Communication is key and can prevent accidents, but it is YOUR responsiblity to make sure your ear protection is on at all times when no cease fire has been declared.

Short story, may be bad form on their part, or may not be, but your hearing will pay the price either way.
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Right on!!
 
I think it really depends on the range you are at...but from my perspective loading mags doesn't mean the range is cold...it also depends on your range rules...

For example at my range we have a red light to indicate the range is cold (been to others where lights mean range is hot, and others with no lights at all) additionally at my range eyes/ears are required by everyone on the shooting pad (though it is pretty common that people take off thier ears when the red lights on, showing cold range)...so anyway...

If I showed up to shoot and there were a couple guys loading mags, and the light was off, I'd put my ears on before getting up to the shooting pad...to me loading mags doesn't mean the range is cold...
 
XTAV750 said:
That's exactly what I was talking about. Obviously, if the range is hot, I'm gonna put my ears on before walking up to the line.
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Sounds to me like you assumed the range was cold,and,to use a play on your own words,YOU did not communicate with THEM.So the problem seems to be an easy one so this doesn't happen again:

ALL ranges should be considered hot if you have any doubts.

It is YOUR responsibility to make sure you are properly equipped,and assume nothing when it comes to range safety.

Now,would I have blasted without looking down the line at a new shooter arriving and setting up ?

No.

Would I have said ears or something ?

Yes.

Do I expect other people to be courteous if I'm not paying attention ?

No.

Believe it or not,I have made the exact same mistake as you described,more than once.Probably 20 times in the last 6 months,latest being a .308 10 feet from me [smile]
 
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mark056 said:
The same...I couldn't care less about the parents, but I won't damage a kid's hearing or take the risk of doing so.
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The correct position.

However, your presence or absence will not harm or protect children where, as here, the threat is from their own idiot parents. They came to shoot; they shot after you left.

Unless your gun was louder than whatever they came with, your leaving the range to accommodate the irresponsible served no useful purpose, while costing you yours.

Get the plate number and description of the car and its occupants. Detail the encounter, include those facts and report them to your club's range committee.
 
Scrivener said:
The correct position.

However, your presence or absence will not harm or protect children where, as here, the threat is from their own idiot parents. They came to shoot; they shot after you left.

Unless your gun was louder than whatever they came with, your leaving the range to accommodate the irresponsible served no useful purpose, while costing you yours.

Get the plate number and description of the car and its occupants. Detail the encounter, include those facts and report them to your club's range committee.
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Everything you say is absolutely correct, and the children would still have their hearing compromised by their parents, but I would rather be inconvenienced by leaving the range than have to live with a guilty conscience. The nagging E natural above third space C in the treble clef which has persistently sounded in my left ear since the age of 18, and has only increased in volume over the years, is a constant reminder of the folly of youth and the necessity of always wearing proper hearing protection. It is something that I would not wish to assume responsibility for inflicting on any young person.

My response in the situation described will always be based on emotional reasons rather than intellectual ones for the reason cited.

Thank you once again, for your perceptive comments which as usual, are right on target.

Mark L.
 
A lot of people take their ears off when the range goes cold. It's sometimes easy to forget to put them back on when the range goes hot. Humans make mistakes. So yeah- it's courteous to look around to make sure everyone has eyes and ears on. It's what I'd do for sure. When it has happened to me (forgot ears) all I can say is I was pissed at myself!
 
I shoot at an indoor club and on the door to the range is a large sign printed in bright [highlight]RED[/highlight] that reads, "SAFTEY GLASSES AND EAR PROTECTION REQUIRED BEYOND THIS POINT."
 
If someone is shooting something loud I would appreciate a warning even if I have my ears on. Yesterday I was at the range and just finished shooting my 44-40, not very loud. A new shooter came up and let me know he was going to be shooting his 30-06 and also checked to make sure the pistol range users (the junior club members 10-14 years old) all had their ears on before he commenced firing. While not required I appreciated it and Jim (from NE shooting) appreciated it very much. Not that I expect someone to look after me but it is curteous.
 
That's great. We should all act as ambassadors of shooting sports... it's the RIGHT thing to do. Imagine how a group of new shooters would feel if they got "caught" making the mistake of not being ready... a little class goes a long way.

PennyPincher said:
If someone is shooting something loud I would appreciate a warning even if I have my ears on. Yesterday I was at the range and just finished shooting my 44-40, not very loud. A new shooter came up and let me know he was going to be shooting his 30-06 and also checked to make sure the pistol range users (the junior club members 10-14 years old) all had their ears on before he commenced firing. While not required I appreciated it and Jim (from NE shooting) appreciated it very much. Not that I expect someone to look after me but it is curteous.
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