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is the 12ga an option?

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Quantavious G

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Good afternoon, braintrust. In all of these clips and pics of both antifa and the conservatives, I see alot of ar's and ak's and some other rifles. It seems from all the pics that the environment in which conflict would occur is urban; short distances and buildings etc. Would a good old 12 ga be effective in this environment?

Let's hear it please. Pro's and con's
 
Let’s be generous and assume you mean a mossberg 590A1. You can choose a known entity ammo wise and run 8+1, or run mini shells and get 16+1.

How many of those images have you seen where the mob was 20+ individuals. How comfortable are you reloading/hand loading your tube? How comfortable are you working the action when engaged up close with multiple attackers grabbing at your gun.

standard capacity box mags, semi auto, carbine length. Sidearm for backup. 12g is great for keeping in strategic locations around your home for HD. Not an ideal weapon if isolated and fighting a crowd.
 
Atlantis said:
Let’s be generous and assume you mean a mossberg 590A1. You can choose a known entity ammo wise and run 8+1, or run mini shells and get 16+1.

How many of those images have you seen where the mob was 20+ individuals. How comfortable are you reloading/hand loading your tube? How comfortable are you working the action when engaged up close with multiple attackers grabbing at your gun.

standard capacity box mags, semi auto, carbine length. Sidearm for backup. 12g is great for keeping in strategic locations around your home for HD. Not an ideal weapon if isolated and fighting a crowd.
Click to expand...

yeah, that seems like a good assessment. All valid points.
 
I'll echo the above. Also, at least in MA, I think there are some restrictions on box mag capacity for a shotgun. Don't live there anymore so the stupid is evaporating from my brain. But even if there isn't a "legal" limit, there's certainly a practical one due to ammo/mag size and both reloading mechanics and gun mod to accept box mags on a pump.

For AR/AK platforms, taping two mags together gives you 60 rounds with a two second mag change even before you have to go pouch digging. Down here I have my long guns loaded like that, with a 60 round AR on standby and a 75 round drum for the AK. New manufacture, $50 for the AR and $65 for the AK drum.

While I'll freely admit nothing says "Get off my lawn" quite like the sound of a 12ga slide rack, a drum in an AK says it MUCH more compellingly. And a whole lot more times. And with a more effective range.
 
I recently did an analysis of the area around my house to really see what was really in my line of fire, especially if I had to use a long gun.

By my rough estimate there are houses in about 300 degrees of a circular pattern around my house that are within a fastball distance of me. The other 60 degrees are clear (within sight) but not all offer clear paths to my house without a lot of clearing.

For this reason I am leaning towards my 870 (7+1) with 00 Buck and a large capacity pistol on my hip. I will still keep my carbine ready for real SHTF scenarios,

YMMV.

This may not be the "best" video, but it's an example of what is out there.

 
Last edited:
G Port said:
Good afternoon, braintrust. In all of these clips and pics of both antifa and the conservatives, I see alot of ar's and ak's and some other rifles. It seems from all the pics that the environment in which conflict would occur is urban; short distances and buildings etc. Would a good old 12 ga be effective in this environment?

Let's hear it please. Pro's and con's
Click to expand...
No.

Because you can't find one anywhere.
 
I think racks of O/Us throughout the house would be great.

Seriously though, there’s absolutely a place for a shotgun in home defense. 12ga, 20ga - just make sure you know the ammo you’re shooting and what’s beyond the immediate wall that’s your backdrop.
 
I think a shotgun definitely has things that are good for self defense, if you know the bad person is one or two, and your family won't be anywhere near said bad guy when you have to shoot. but a rifle is really the best choice; an AR or AK. Precision of a rifle vs pellet splatter, 30 rounds vs 5-7, Rifles are generally much faster to reload. Rifles are good at 5 yards or 500. My preference is an AR, with a good light, and a 2 point sling with a red dot for defense of self and others.
 
Go back and look at Rittenhouse video's and replace AR with shotgun. Could he of managed the same shots with a higher recoil shotgun, pumping a shotgun even loading it on the fly like when he was running for his life. I can't say for sure as I am a big shotgun fan but I always lean towards a good battle riffle with 20+ rounds without thinking of a reload.

I can say the results of the impacts of his rounds would of been the same or worse for the 3 even the 4th ( black guy who had a vertical up round fly right past him ) but could he of held it toghether like he did.

We all think we will be standing in a perfect range position or somewhat comfortable shooting stance, again look at what was being done at a very short range to him and how he was shooting on his butt and back. 12g is a great tool just cant say in this enviroment.

Crowd dispersal I think either one is fine, fighting on your back like he was I would want a light recoil and a one shot kill firearm like he had, just my 2 cent's.
 
For a situation with a small number of targets (<8) a shotgun is great, especially indoors such as for home defense. But you can't carry two long guns around in a combat situation and the farther your targets are the better, so the capacity and range of an AR make it the smart choice.
 
Cant go wrong with #00 or #04. Great defense for close issues wit #04 better in real close issues. Of course pistol and extra mags for backups.
 
Personally, the only way I would trade off the capacity of a AR or other platform for a shotgun where you may have 8 rounds available would be to also have a pistol with hi-capacity magazines and a few spare mags.
 
Nothing wrong with a 12ga if it's all you have. Personally, I never intend to let an enemy get within shotgun distance if I can help it and prefer a rifle, but if it happens, a shotgun can be very effective in the right environment.

The ammo is bulky and cumbersome......be sure to carry it in something that will contain it......NOT one of those stupid elastic belts. They look cool draped over your shoulder like NFAC......but they're worthless and you'll lose most of it moving around.
 
A 12 ga. with buckshot has great stopping power but if you're in ma the capacity is severely limited. At the relatively close range you'd likely encounter, I'd choose an AK. Long range accuracy isn't a requirement and the bullet is much bigger.
 
I get good patterning to 40 yards in an 18.5 smoothbore with federal 00 buck.

i can hit man sized targets with slugs and the bead offhand at 100 yards all day. can even get hits out to 150, sometimes.
 
The problem with shotguns is they're hungry, and every one is a little different. You need to keep feeding them, when you're in a fight with a shogun, if you're not shooting you need to feed it. 8 rounds of 00 goes pretty quick. You wanna make sure that however you carry ammo, and how you feed it, can be done under stress. Ever try to load and shoot with a 120bpm heart rate? It's not easy.
 
Shouldn't even be a debate. Is there a place for it? Sure, if that's all you have. When was the last time you saw a profeasional run a shotgun? I guess a charging handle doesn't scare intruders like racking a shotgun would if you go with the Biden Home Defense System, so that's a plus.
 
If it worked in WW1 it will work for you:
551-1024x262.jpg

Pointy thing is to keep the commies at bay while you reload.
 
I got no issues with a 12 gauge pump for stopping a mob aim at the ground 50’ out and let that buckshot bounce it’s merry way into the mob. They’ll stop. Survivors will drag themselves away. We practiced this technique a couple of times at the Point Mugu range when I was with MCB-40 back in the ‘70’s awesome watching the Ricochet’s in the sand knowing NOTHING’s coming through that.
 
If you could find an IWI TS-12 you’d have 15+1 rds of 12ga in Mass, but slimmest odds you’ll find one. Call Gartman Arms every morning if you’re dedicated. They don’t mind.

But even that is a compromise as prior posts describe. Prefer any semiauto rifle and stay the hell away from rioting mobs.
 

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