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IS NHFC RUBBING KNEES WITH HUMANE SOCIETY UNITED STATES??

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Folks the recent email that I got from NHFC (read it and follow the links) carried as link to New Hampshire Wildlife Coalition which listed as to of the lead members being a Meade Cadot a staunch Anti hunter and Anti Trapper and one of the major players of the Harris Center. The other was a Lindsay Hamrick, New Hampshire Director of Humane Society, United States.
If these are the folks that NHFC is working with I strongly suggest that you question their wisdom and motives. Those folks that I just listed are not your friends.
 

NHFC Statement on New Hampshire Fish & Game
The New Hampshire Firearms Coalition stands for one, and only one issue: The Right to Keep and Bear Arms as protected by the Second Amendment to the US Constitution and Article 2a of the New Hampshire Constitution. Sadly, the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department is an agency within state government that actively opposes the civil right to be armed.

The Fish and Game Department has consistently opposed constitutional carry and opposes repeal of the prohibition on loaded rifles and shotguns in vehicles. We have received numerous reports from our members that conservation officers are telling people if they are caught in the woods with a firearm without a hunting license, that is prima facia evidence of poaching. If a person is found in the woods, carrying a firearm during non hunting season that is also prima facia evidence of poaching. In our opinion, law abiding citizens have a Second Amendment right to carry firearms openly or concealed anywhere, anytime, anyplace on any day of the year for any reason or no reason at all. There is no Constitutional right to hunt.

Attorney General Gordon MacDonald issued a written opinion that said in part, that lobbying the legislature on issues that do not affect fish, game, wildlife or marine resources was not authorized by statute:
https://www.nhfc-ontarget.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Memo-to-Gov-Council-re-Review-of-Legislation-by-Fish-and-Game..pdf

Sadly, the Fish and Game Department uses the equivalent of slave labor to “teach” so called hunter education courses. The maximum fee an instructor may charge a participant is $5. Essentially, instructors are expected to teach for free. Through our right to know requests, we have learned that for every hour that a Hunter Education Instructor teaches, the Fish and Game Department receives $25.89 in Federal Gun Tax money. Furthermore, if instructors properly document their mileage from home to the teaching location, the department receives 53.5 cents per mile. This money comes from the Pittman – Robertson tax on firearms and ammunition. Most gun owners do not even know they are paying this tax because it is paid at the wholesale level by manufacturers so it does not show up on a retail receipt. The majority of firearms purchased in New Hampshire are not suitable for or even used for hunting. Thus, non hunters are being forced to underwrite the operations of an anti-gun agency to the tune of several hundred thousands of dollars per year. So, why, you may ask is this a bad thing? Why is the New Hampshire Firearms Coalition concerned about this?

It is a bad thing for several reasons. First, in states that require a training course to obtain a concealed carry license, such as Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, Florida and Virginia, the instructor is free to charge any amount. (As far as we know, in all states that require training the instructor may charge any amount.) In New Hampshire, Hunter Education is a requirement to purchase a hunting license, thus, if there is value to the training, students should pay a realistic fee for receiving the training. Second, If a student selects Fish and Game’s Online training course that charge is $29.00. Close to 6 times what an instructor may charge. Maybe the hunter education requirement should be repealed. Maybe the free market should set the course fee.

A good example of the financial mismanagement within the department is the sale of so called “hike safe cards”. If a hiker purchases a card and gets lost, Fish and Game will “rescue” said hiker at no cost. They will do the same for the holder of a hunting or fishing license. The core constituency of Fish and Game are hunters and fishers. Yet, the cost of hike safe card is $25 (resident or non resident). A resident hunting license is $32 and a resident fishing license is $45 with non residents paying $113 and $63 respectively. Clearly, hunters, fishers and gun owners fund the department through higher fees and taxes of firearms and ammunition, but hikers are given a substantial discount even though the cost to rescue a lost or injured hiker can run into the tens of thousands of dollars. This is just bad business.

Administrative Rules
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rules/state_agencies/fis300.html

Contained in the agency’s administrative rules is:

“If requested by the department, any person taking a deer shall take fish and game personnel back to the kill site, the site of carcass evisceration, or both, for purposes such as, but not limited to, verification of kill site or to obtain ovaries or other biological samples left behind.”

This rule is clearly violative of the Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. It is routinely abused by Conservation Officers. NHFC created a webpage to post some stories about the worst civil liberties violations:
https://www.nhfc-ontarget.org/abuses-by-the-nh-fish-and-game-dept/

Conservation Officers regularly look at deer and turkey registration tags and if they think a hunter has violated a law or rule, they make a home visit to try and force a confession. They ignore fourth and fifth amendment protections and use the threat of arrest for even the lowest level offenses as a tool to make people admit wrongdoing. State laws allow Conservation Officers to arrest using a far, far lower burden of proof than a local police officer or a State Trooper. This must be changed. Here at the New Hampshire Firearms Coalition, we strongly believe in the American Justice System and its core tenet of “innocent until proven guilty”. Conservation Officers seem to think that folks are guilty until proven innocent.

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department is in desperate need of management changes (to stop the loss of money) and reform in its law enforcement division (to stop the civil rights violations) and a change in the commission (to stop the opposition to pro-gun reform bills and to properly supervise management and law enforcement). The New Hampshire Firearms Coalition is on record as supporting SB 48 because it will force a study of the department and recommend necessary changes. Changes that will hopefully stop the anti-gun activism within the department and commission. SB 48 is a study bill, that is all, it will not change anything on its own. Yet, many hunters reflexively oppose any study of the department at all. That is a short sighted mindset. We will work with and cooperate with anyone who shares our goal of changing the structure of Fish and Game to stop the anti-gun activism and civil liberties violations.

See this:
http://www.nhwildlifecoalition.org/index.php/funding-n-h-fish-and-game/

As a final point of information, you might be interested to know that several NHFC Directors purchase hunting and or fishing licenses and Alan Rice, NHFC President, has held a resident lifetime New Hampshire hunting and fishing combination license since 2001.

Read the last link, The "Who we are"
 
Any organization that includes any member of the HSUS is to be considered suspect. A quick reading of the link shows that they definitely hold anti-hunting and anti-trapping positions and use the same arguments against consumptive use as have been brought forth in Massachusetts.

The NHFC wants to correct the past anti-gun politicking of the F&W Commission. They need to be much more careful in their choice of allies in pursuit of that goal. Green Decoys, such as the NHWC are neither our friend nor ally, and will turn on the NHFC as soon as it benefits them.
 
Wow.. what you posted shows an awful lot of civil liberties violations. Have you even watched Northwoods law and seen firsthand how they abuse people. One time Adam Cheney kept questioning someone after he asked for a lawyer. NH Fish and game is a rogue, lawless agency that needs to be held to account. They even tell people if they are caught in the woods with a firearm that is evidence of poaching. Thats nonsense anyone can carry a gun in NH and they know it. Maybe if firearms deer season was the same 3 1/2 months as archery season people wouldn't need to "poach" because they would have ample opportunity to take a deer. I think NHFC is doing a great job. They should keep the heat on these despots.
 
Wow.. what you posted shows an awful lot of civil liberties violations. Have you even watched Northwoods law and seen firsthand how they abuse people. One time Adam Cheney kept questioning someone after he asked for a lawyer. NH Fish and game is a rogue, lawless agency that needs to be held to account. They even tell people if they are caught in the woods with a firearm that is evidence of poaching. Thats nonsense anyone can carry a gun in NH and they know it. Maybe if firearms deer season was the same 3 1/2 months as archery season people wouldn't need to "poach" because they would have ample opportunity to take a deer. I think NHFC is doing a great job. They should keep the heat on these despots.

I don't watch that show, I did that job for a total of 31 years two on the west coast as a Camp Pendleton Game Warden and 29+ years in Mass. Now retired.
 
I don't watch that show, I did that job for a total of 31 years two on the west coast as a Camp Pendleton Game Warden and 29+ years in Mass. Now retired.

I’d appreciate a better expanation. I’ll say I’m drawn between a former F&G Warden defending his F&G brethren and alerting us to what he perceives to be an issue. Everyone makes mistakes and NHFC has manned-up before when they’ve made a call based on information at-hand. I’ve found them a reliable source, and willing to reconsider when updated with new information.

What exactly is the “gone out to my entire mailing list” post meant to say? Seriously, who are you calling out? Do you support another NH 2ndA group as an alternative? Did you contact NHFC privately prior to posting here? Presumably you’re a NH resident having escaped CA/MA?

Maybe you’re a swell guy but this topic reached an early crescendo in Post #1.
 
I’d appreciate a better expanation. I’ll say I’m drawn between a former F&G Warden defending his F&G brethren and alerting us to what he perceives to be an issue. Everyone makes mistakes and NHFC has manned-up before when they’ve made a call based on information at-hand. I’ve found them a reliable source, and willing to reconsider when updated with new information.

What exactly is the “gone out to my entire mailing list” post meant to say? Seriously, who are you calling out? Do you support another NH 2ndA group as an alternative? Did you contact NHFC privately prior to posting here? Presumably you’re a NH resident having escaped CA/MA?

Maybe you’re a swell guy but this topic reached an early crescendo in Post #1.

Not defending any one or agency. I am not a west coast transplant, I was stationed at Camp Pendleton on Active duty(USMC). My Home was Mass. I am questioning them associating themselves with known Anti hunters, anti Trappers. I did not work for Fish and Wildlife in Mass. The Environmental Police are a separate agency working directly under the Secretary of Energy and Environmental Affairs. As to going out to my email list, I wanted others that do not use this site to be aware of this questionable alliance with the Animal rights folks.
 
For the record, no member of NHFC is part of NHWC.
Now, on to the abuse of F&G... Why do they get special privileges? Why do they get to violate the NH and US Constitutions in performing their tasks? When are the 4th and 5th amendment violations going to stop?
 
For the record, no member of NHFC is part of NHWC.
Now, on to the abuse of F&G... Why do they get special privileges? Why do they get to violate the NH and US Constitutions in performing their tasks? When are the 4th and 5th amendment violations going to stop?

Didn't say that now did I? Your organization does link NHWC on the webpage to support your endeavor. That is a fact, So lets address that. As that is what I addressed, So don't start the spin machine, I don't play that game, In fact until I saw that you linked that group to support your goals, I was in support of your Organization because the great work you did in that past.
 
There was a time when fish and game was 100% funded through license fees and the pittman robertson gun tax. They now receive millions of dollars in state general fund money. Money, like the pittman robertson tax that comes from people that do not hunt. Its only fair that non hunters have a say in the department since they are paying for it. Look at the NHFC page you linked. If what NHFC says is true, (and they seem to do a lot of research) hunter safety is taught for free but the department receives hundreds of thousands of dollars in pittman robertson gun tax money. Then, they use that money to harrass those that carry guns and lobby against pro gun bills like constitutional carry and loaded rifles in cars. More than one fish cop has said if your caught in the woods with a gun its poaching. Then call me a poacher because ill never give up my right to carry to those goons. As far as im concerned the department needs a top to bottom restructuring. I dont respect them and I know others who feel the same way and support NHFC 1000%
 
There was a time when fish and game was 100% funded through license fees and the pittman robertson gun tax. They now receive millions of dollars in state general fund money. Money, like the pittman robertson tax that comes from people that do not hunt. Its only fair that non hunters have a say in the department since they are paying for it. Look at the NHFC page you linked. If what NHFC says is true, (and they seem to do a lot of research) hunter safety is taught for free but the department receives hundreds of thousands of dollars in pittman robertson gun tax money. Then, they use that money to harrass those that carry guns and lobby against pro gun bills like constitutional carry and loaded rifles in cars. More than one fish cop has said if your caught in the woods with a gun its poaching. Then call me a poacher because ill never give up my right to carry to those goons. As far as im concerned the department needs a top to bottom restructuring. I dont respect them and I know others who feel the same way and support NHFC 1000%

Read the post above yours, I am dealing with a single issue.
 
So did you ask someone at NHFC about this relationship? Otherwise your original post kinda reads like this...

 
If these are the folks that NHFC is working with I strongly suggest that you question their wisdom and motives. Those folks that I just listed are not your friends.
Strange bedfellows are sometimes useful allies on issues where you agree. On issues where you don't agree, fight like hell against them, shake hands, and continue the process.

If you will only align with anyone or any group who is 100% in line with your beliefs, you will be very lonely in defeat.
 
FWIW, I think the question "IS NHFC RUBBING KNEES WITH HUMANE SOCIETY UNITED STATES??" is poorly worded and is off target. The real question should be, "HOW DO WE REFORM FISH AND GAME, SO THEY ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION?"
 
FWIW, I think the question "IS NHFC RUBBING KNEES WITH HUMANE SOCIETY UNITED STATES??" is poorly worded and is off target. The real question should be, "HOW DO WE REFORM FISH AND GAME, SO THEY ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION?"

You are still dodging the question. So based on that, you are working with those that in the end will turn on you.
 
So by everyone's comments your fine with a proven anti sportsmen/women's movement s involved in restructuring the board.
HSUS has members in NHFC so what do you think the real agenda is
 
In a huge bit of IRONY.... The animal activists opposed HB282. So clearly NHFC is not working with them.
Bottom line is this. If F&G wants to violate the constitution, they should go have a Rep file a CACR and change the Consitution, in the mean time the BILL OF RIGHTS is the BILL OF RIGHTS and government should abide by it.

[Art.] 19. [Searches and Seizures Regulated.] Every subject hath a right to be secure from all unreasonable searches and seizures of his person, his houses, his papers, and all his possessions. Therefore, all warrants to search suspected places, or arrest a person for examination or trial in prosecutions for criminal matters, are contrary to this right, if the cause or foundation of them be not previously supported by oath or affirmation; and if the order, in a warrant to a civil officer, to make search in suspected places, or to arrest one or more suspected persons or to seize their property, be not accompanied with a special designation of the persons or objects of search, arrest, or seizure; and no warrant ought to be issued; but in cases* and with the formalities, prescribed by law.

State Constitution - Bill of Rights | NH.gov
 
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At today's committee hearing on HB 282, it was full Fuddery on display.

But, signatures on the blue sheet were in favor of the bill 14-8.

Laura Pantelakos unwittingly set up Design perfectly to explain that F&G's warrantless searches aren't limited to those who agree to them by purchasing a license. They can do the same to anyone who is in "the field" or "the stream".
 
It appears to me that you're making the common mistake of confusing alliance with friendship. A common cause on one issue does not mean a common cause on all issues.

And the added fact that HSUS came out against HB282 (as design stated above) it would appear that the alliance (or better phrase co-operation) has ended...
 
NH fish and game gets away with the abuse because they brainwash young hunters who are forced to take their class into thinking they are a legitimate state agency that does good work. They are not. Watch the tv show, look at it with a critical eye and you will see the violations of constitutional rights. Does anyone on this board care about a few (more or less) dead deer or turkeys when we are facing things like bans on private sales, red flagg gun confiscation, off limits places for carry and every other anti gun democrats wet dream gun control? one would think that democrats who are always concerend with civil rights would want to stop fish and games lawless ness but since NHFC supported the bill today they probably got confused. Fish and game should be disbanded and shut down they have outlived their usefulness and engage in aggressive behaviour to make arrests to create statistics to justify their continued existence. Everyone on this board should never forget that they opposed constitutional carry and repealing the ban on loaded rifles in cars
 
. Fish and game should be disbanded and shut down they have outlived their usefulness and engage in aggressive behaviour to make arrests to create statistics to justify their continued existence. Everyone on this board should never forget that they opposed constitutional carry and repealing the ban on loaded rifles in cars

Now we are talking. Let's get on with this purge.
 
"SB 48 is a study bill, that is all, it will not change anything on its own. Yet, many hunters reflexively oppose any study of the department at all. That is a short sighted mindset. We will work with and cooperate with anyone who shares our goal of changing the structure of Fish and Game to stop the anti-gun activism and civil liberties violations."

"See this:
http://www.nhwildlifecoalition.org/index.php/funding-n-h-fish-and-game/ "

Above is a direct quote from NHFC website and email, So the alliance hasn't ended just being masked. So beware of the spin that is being foisted upon you.
 
It is quite obvious that NHFC want to change the make up of the "Commissioners" after the go around that they had when the Constitutional Carry issue was unlawfully addressed by the Commissioners. So now they are willing to have placed on the Commission, Tree Huggers and Animal Rights Activists that will shut down Hunting, Trapping and quite Possibly Fishing. All because of their Vengeance and desire for Revenge.
 
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