Based on experience just about as long, I heartily endorse everything in this reply.
There was a time when I was an active PPC shooter. Matches were 150 rounds; practice sessions were 300 rounds. I had no trouble keeping up with a Rockchucker.
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Is anyone else going to start reloading this summer?
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Based on experience just about as long, I heartily endorse everything in this reply.
There was a time when I was an active PPC shooter. Matches were 150 rounds; practice sessions were 300 rounds. I had no trouble keeping up with a Rockchucker.
Dirtypacman
NES Door Greeter
You know the more I think about it this is the way I should go, starting with the AP press and not knowing the reloading process to start could make for many frustrating sessions.
So you think a single stage Hornady Lock and Load or should I look at the Lee or Dillons for ease of use.
I call horse shit! I started on a progressive press, and TONS of people have done the same, without any ill effects.
Even with a progressive, you can still load a single round at a time, and I would recommend that you do that to start out with anyway. You will monitor all operations, and get an understanding of why and how things work. Once you have that understanding, you can go fully progressive.
The belief that a person should start on a single stage press, is outdated!
I must say.. I'm not interested in getting into a debate of whether or not you should start on a single stage or progressive first. I'm sure if you are reasonably competent you can make it work. It's no debate- single stage is slower than progressive- that you must know. I use both and am quite pleased I have both. The Rockchucker kit I bought was cheap money and included several things I still use now- the Speer manual, the scale, etc. Take this from a person who doesn't even reload rifle rounds and wants volume. They both have significant benefits IMO. This shouldn't even be an argument. Now... if I could only see a blue and red (Hornady) machine side by side- that would make for some fun.
I vote for starting on a progressive. Specifically an auto-indexing progressive. That means the Hornady LnL, Dillon 650, or Dillon SDB. Loading the volume I need on a single stage takes more time then I am willing to spend, and I size and prime off press so that is saying something.
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I almost gave up handloading because I started on a single stage press. Instead I went progressive and haven't looked back.
Yes and no.
I vote for a progressive, but would recommend the 550 Dillon because it requires the added attention of manual indexing. This is a Good Thing for beginners.
Also, the simpler function and LACK of auto-indexing makes it much easier to work with one case at a time. I find it helpful to just pull the locating pin and keep throwing charges when setting the powder measure or bullet seating die.
I agree that auto-indexing makes things more complicated and makes correcting a mistake more difficult. I like it for one reason and one reason only, it's a lot harder to have a double charge because you forgot to index the plate. You should notice if you forget to index because you are going to seat another bullet and you can't set the next bullet and you can't insert the next case, but if you manage to forget those two steps you will get a double charge.
If you want single stage and you are reloading for pistol, I'd go with this for $55: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=880135 (there is a kit that has the scale and powder measure and a few other odds and ends for ~$90).
You want (4) holes (IMHO):
1) Deprime / Size
2) Charge / Bell
3) Bullet Seating
4) Lee Factory Crimp
This is an auto indexing turret press, which means the turret automatically rotates with each stoke. This gives you the one at a time experience with little more speed and convenience. I found it pretty valuable starting this way, but I didn't have the benefit of a reloading class to get me started.
Now that I have a progressive, I can use the turret for prototyping loads, so it worked out well for me.
I'm not trying to convince you to go one way or the other regarding a progressive, but $55 is short $$ and you can reuse the dies you buy for it in a progressive if you go that way later (although I think the L-N-L requires horanday dies?).
You want (4) holes (IMHO):
1) Deprime / Size
2) Charge / Bell
3) Bullet Seating
4) Lee Factory Crimp
This is an auto indexing turret press, which means the turret automatically rotates with each stoke. This gives you the one at a time experience with little more speed and convenience. I found it pretty valuable starting this way, but I didn't have the benefit of a reloading class to get me started.
Now that I have a progressive, I can use the turret for prototyping loads, so it worked out well for me.
I'm not trying to convince you to go one way or the other regarding a progressive, but $55 is short $$ and you can reuse the dies you buy for it in a progressive if you go that way later (although I think the L-N-L requires horanday dies?).
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I started loading on a Progressive and never owned a single stage press. I took a class before starting reloading and we used a single stage press. That actually turned me off of reloading. It took 1 hour to load 50 rounds. So a box of 50 rounds cost $20 and if I reload it will cost me $7 plus an hour of my time so now it cost me $57 for 50 rounds? I thought reloading was going to "save" me money.
I have a Dillon 650 with a bullet feeder and decided I want something even faster so I ordered a 1050 and another bullet feeder. Save your money now and buy a Dillon 550 or 650 and call it a day.
If you want a single stage or don't want to spend a ton of money get a Dillon SDB. It's not a single stage but is very affordable and will last forever.
I have a Dillon 650 with a bullet feeder and decided I want something even faster so I ordered a 1050 and another bullet feeder. Save your money now and buy a Dillon 550 or 650 and call it a day.
If you want a single stage or don't want to spend a ton of money get a Dillon SDB. It's not a single stage but is very affordable and will last forever.
Matt ~ I’m also looking to possibly purchase an “electronic” scale and put my balance scale on the side. I went to the Midway site you were good enough to post and saw the scale that was on sale. What a price, about half price will always gets my interest.
I then started to read the reviews Midway is good enough to place there for prospective buyers. I’M NOT BUYING! One of the things that kind of gripes me is the way Midway places the reviews by star rating first. They put the highest (5-stars) first and when you look at the first number of review you might think, “THIS IS A WINNER!” and place your order for the item. Well if they put the reviews in a date based structure it would serve the public quite a lot better (IMHO).
There is a multitude of one and two-star ratings (stink-o) stuck down at the end after all the 5-star reviews. They are place at the very end of the reviews even though many are newer than some of the 5-star reviews and you would get a better mix to judge the item in question if they were placed there by date. I’ll be hanging on to the ol’ beamer for a while I guess. Good luck on whatever you decide on.
It’s just one gripe I have about a very decent company, with many positives, that I’ve had the pleasure to deal with.
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I actually took the course at AG Guns in Lowell years ago. I don't know if they still offer the class. I'm sure any of us online would be willing to teach you what we know. The issue I had with the reloading class that I took is they didn't get into detail about how and why to add "X" amount of powder and where to get that info. It was more about this is how you resize your brass etc.
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If you're looking for an electronic scale which I would totally recommend then I would get the Dillon D-Terminator scale. (http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=70&min=0&dyn=1&)
I have one and it works great. Much easier and faster than a balance beam scale.
Would you really want to scrimp on a scale that is inaccurate and overcharge your ammo?
I have one and it works great. Much easier and faster than a balance beam scale.
Would you really want to scrimp on a scale that is inaccurate and overcharge your ammo?
I presume that you still drive a horse & buggy. Cars also break down.
Really, These scales work by using strain gauges, and were used to weigh precious metals & diamonds. My old 1010 has been collecting dust for years since I first bought a Lyman electronic, and then a Pact powder dispensing system.
They are sensitive to drafts, and vibration, but major time savers.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
There are several high end models of cars that are incorporating features that allow you to divert your attention from the wheel (take your hands off the wheel and the pedals) for short periods of time, at lower speeds. 2007 Mercedes S600s have them, I think.
They're really like cruise control with steering control incorporated, but its an obvious step towards cars driving themselves.
They're really like cruise control with steering control incorporated, but its an obvious step towards cars driving themselves.
I think SAAB? or Volvo? (forget which) has some kind of system which gauges the distance between your bumper and the car in front of you and modulates the cruise control to maintain distance... so that'd be something
akin to an "autopilot" too.
-Mike
I'm getting back into reloading and starting over from scratch. 12 years ago I had a single stage and did 30.06. Currently I'm saving up for a Dillon 650 and starting on .45ACP then when I'm back into the groove I'll start doing .223 also. I have a whole 3rd Bay of my Basement at my disposal for a shop. It's just saving the money and getting everything again that sux lol.
Think long and hard about the 650 if you want to change calibers, especially where changing primer size is involved. That is a chore in a 650.
You might be far better served buying a 550, a second tool head, conversion kit and powder measure with the savings and then buying the case feeder you know you'd buy regardless.
Check Brian Enos' guide on this very subject. He's a Dillon dealer and he recommends the 550 for anyone wanting to change calibers.
Fooped
Resident HK Guru
Agreed. I debated between the 550 and 650, and went with the 550 for the speed of changing calibers. The 650 has a few more features, and has greater output speed, but changing over is far more involved than with a 550. If you plan on reloading a lot of different calibers, and don't need to crank out thousands of rounds at a time as fast as possible, the 550 is the smart choice.
Actually, the Hornady L-N-L is a smarter choice. It has the features and output of a 650, and the price and ease-of-caliber-changes of the 550.
There's no mystery to caliber changes on the 650. What's so time consuming or confusing? A primer size change is three allen screws and a 9/16 wrench. What's the big deal?
Get a 550, you'll be happy.
Try a 650, you'll want one.
Get a 550, you'll be happy.
Try a 650, you'll want one.
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But, it doesn't have a lifetime NO B.S. warranty and others have been having a lot of issues with the L-N-L.
I have a 1050 and a 650 and love them both. As for the caliber conversions being so difficult on the 650 I don't see anyones point here. It takes less than 3 minutes to switch calibers of the same primer size and about 6-8 minutes if you have to change out the primer size. The time lost in the caliber conversion is made up in output. I've had the 650 for several years now and have loaded tens of thousands of rounds of various calibers with minumal issues. The few issues I've had were resolved with a simple phone call to Dillon.
To date the cost of maintenence on my 650: $0.00
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TY43215
NES Member
The only reason I know of for me to never use a 650 is then I would have to own one. I do fine with my 2 550s and I am too stubborn to change. If I were starting out, I would not hesitate to buy a 650.
But what do I know, I still shoot a revolver
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
