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Is A Full Size Pistol Even Necessary?

Big hands——Big pistol!

Even some of the full size pistols are to small
for my hands. A G17 or a S&WM&PC my bottom
two fingers are in the wind.
 
drgrant said:
Lol but we're talking about the US gun market, through, right? And those guys wouldn't be in this market if it wasn't for the success they have in the commercial market. Also if you look at
the portfolios of companies like CZ and Beretta most of the products they make are commercial/sporting arms.

I also find it hard to believe that even globally either of those guys are making more revenue off LE/Mil stuff at this point. You could make the argument for HK outside of the US, sure, but not those two. This isn't a knock against these companies hardly.. Also look at their product portfolios- CZ and Beretta have an impressive line of sporting guns across the board. Beretta wouldn't bother making 48 versions of the Concussive Ascending Silver Pigeon no 48 12 gauge shotgun or whatever if it didn't make them good money.

-Mike
Click to expand...

I had to google that for a minute.... there really are like 1000 silver pigeon shotguns.... ROLFFFFFFFFFF
 
Roland Deschain said:
I had to google that for a minute.... there really are like 1000 silver pigeon shotguns.... ROLFFFFFFFFFF
Click to expand...

I basically just pulled that out of the air, I knew they had a gun called the Silver Pigeon and I knew they made like 4000 different shotguns. CZ does too and they have a lot of nice models, as
well.

-Mike
 
I just started having the opposite thought. I had several small handguns for carry but realized that a "full size" gun in a good holster is easy to carry for me. I can also shoot my full size oistols better generally.
I did just buy a P365 sas and it is an excellent gun. I use it when I pocket carry and it is my only small gun. I now have an HK VP9, Hk P30sk, HK USP and an HK45. I ordered an HK P30 on Friday to add also.
I really like a full size pistol.
 
Comments are gonna be all over the place, but let me ask you this. If you found yourself in a bad situation, what would you wish to have on you? Obviously an M-60 isn’t realistic, but maybe a midsize Glock like the 19?
Anything is better than nothing, but balance comfort with utility.
 
In my world there’s no need for compact pistols. Once I learned how to get the right holster and belt I’m done w anything but full size pistols, which are considerably easier to draw and make hits. For me a subcompact serves zero purpose unless it can squeeze into a pocket at which point it’s a decent BUG in my world G42 or LCP2. all the guns in between are worthless to me for CCW.
 
If you can define "necessary," then maybe the question can be answered.

When I carry a compact pistol, it is because I don't think it is likely I'll need it. If you told me I was definitely headed for a gun fight, and I couldn't talk my way out of it somehow, I'd opt for a 1911 .45, a SIG P220 or maybe a BHP every time.
 
tl;dr

I own two full size 9mm pistols, and a .38 snubby.

9 times out of 10 that I leave the house with a gun, it’s a full size 9mm.

that being said, if you have to ask the internet to come up with a reason to buy one, the answer is no. You don’t need one. Spend the money on ammo or training instead.
 
In God We Trust said:
Comments are gonna be all over the place, but let me ask you this. If you found yourself in a bad situation, what would you wish to have on you? Obviously an M-60 isn’t realistic, but maybe a midsize Glock like the 19?
Anything is better than nothing, but balance comfort with utility.
Click to expand...
Personally for me, and one of the reasons I “asked” the question was my normally carry in a free state is a 365 with a 10 and two 15s and an AR pistol within close proximity in my daily carry bag.

If a pistol is always a compromise, I would rather have a smaller pistol provided the capacity is the same.

On a timer within average self defense ranges, time out of a holster to first shot on target is virtually that same or better with a smaller pistol. If I am trying longer shots or to group my 5” M&P is certainly better.
 
drgrant said:
Lol except that end result is nothing like a G19, its still a small shitty, ill proportioned compromise gun with a big magazine on it. Things like the 365, 43, etc are all compromise guns and carrying them is perfectly fine, but the idea of actually replacing a normal duty grade pistol with one is an insane joke on a good day.

RDS on a 365? The gun marketers have gotten into your head.. that's basically full blown aids. If a guy puts a flashlight and rds on a 365 simultaneously these guys should come out....



View: https://youtu.be/ORwfm2s6JeY



I realize people are really into this gun but at some point the mindless fapping will stop. [rofl]
Click to expand...


Im not a first timer with a handgun - no of course a 365/Hellcat is nothing like a 19. What Im saying is, what i

How many people buy a 19, 9c or similar to carry and then leave it at home most of the time? How many people buy a “Duty grade pistol” (I’m not sure what the hell that is) and all it sees is static firing line activity for 200-300 rounds before its traded in for yet another “DGP” designed 30 years ago.

If capacity, presentation time and shooter accuracy are similar with a smaller gun, why not carry the smaller gun? Handguns are shitty compromises anyway, why cart around more compromise than needed?

This isnt about any specific gun, I mentioned the 365 / 365xl as that’s what I own. This isn’t an advertisement for either.

Mindless fapping? Listen to yourself gushing over terms like “duty grade” and 30 year old gun designs where innovation is adding finger grooves for one generation and the removing those same finger grooves 2 generations later as a “feature”

I have at least 30k rounds through a Glock 34 and 19 they are highly functional and super reliable firearms. Coming to the conclusion that gun design stops there because “perfection” is super Fudd.

Edit: Im not taking shots at anything anyone carries or likes. I genuinely want MORE people to carry more often and be more proficient with their carry.
 
I like the larger pistols I have for target shooting, the longer sight radius improves my accuracy.

When I carried a gun on a daily basis I was carrying a K frame Model 13, or a Glock 17 ... this was a long time ago. I had a S&W 3914 when I needed something smaller.

in my old age, on those rare occasions I need a firearm, it is a J frame model 60 with large grips, or a Glock 43X .... I retired my G26 to the safe as I like the grip on the 43X that much better.

Compact or sub-compact is fine, if you are comfortable with the grip, can get it on target and keep it there, and can reload it on the move.

Most gunfights are not emptying multiple high capacity magazines, sure reloading a small revolver from speed strips is not ideal but with proper training it can be done.... same with a small pistol.

It wasn't until Glock came along that people felt the need for 19+1 capacity

In motorcycling we say "I don't care waht you ride so long as you ride", I don't care what you carry as long as it doesn't say Raven or Jennings on the slide
 
I would ask a different question. Is a compact pistol necessary? I'd say for most of us the answer is no. Most people who carry a compact pistol immediately ruin its compactness anyway by adding those ridiculous magazine extensions so their 3rd and 4th fingers can get on the grip. Which is completely unnecessary by the the way. You can shoot any gun just fine with a two finger grip. In fact my pinky and ring fingers are just along for the ride no matter what gun I'm shooting. Whether its a .380 Bodyguard or an N-Frame magnum my grip doesn't change. I use my thumb and first two fingers. The other two are just in the way. The thing that makes a compact gun compact is the short grip frame. You could have a 6' bbl on a carry gun but with a short grip frame it is still easy to conceal. As soon as you lengthen the grip frame you have effectively uncompacted your compact gun. Either learn to grip any gun with your two top fingers (you'll get used to it) or just carry a full size gun.
Secondly, what is the fascination with compact guns anyway? Unless you're in a profession like undercover cop or double oh spy you probably don't really need a perfectly concealed gun. So your gun prints a little or your shirt rides up occasionally, so what? Virtually no one cares. If someone happens to catch a glimpse of your carry gun they'll probably assume you're a cop, if they think about it at all.
The tiny mouse guns do have their place. I like to stuff one in my summer hiking/jogging shorts sometimes. But even the smallest and lightest gun kind of gets annoying bouncing around in the pocket of my light weight shorts. So much so that I usually end up carrying in a fanny pack instead. And if I'm gong to wear the pack I might as well carry what I want.
 
appraiser said:
I like the larger pistols I have for target shooting, the longer sight radius improves my accuracy.

When I carried a gun on a daily basis I was carrying a K frame Model 13, or a Glock 17 ... this was a long time ago. I had a S&W 3914 when I needed something smaller.

in my old age, on those rare occasions I need a firearm, it is a J frame model 60 with large grips, or a Glock 43X .... I retired my G26 to the safe as I like the grip on the 43X that much better.

Compact or sub-compact is fine, if you are comfortable with the grip, can get it on target and keep it there, and can reload it on the move.

Most gunfights are not emptying multiple high capacity magazines, sure reloading a small revolver from speed strips is not ideal but with proper training it can be done.... same with a small pistol.

It wasn't until Glock came along that people felt the need for 19+1 capacity

In motorcycling we say "I don't care waht you ride so long as you ride", I don't care what you carry as long as it doesn't say Raven or Jennings on the slide
Click to expand...

I agree - that’s actually the root of this. I would love to see more people actually carry and actually be proficient with their carry.

NES is and always has been full of the “I carry 5 full cap mags and a full size pistol” crowd, to which as someone who has said in this very theads EDCs a AR pistol I am somewhat a part of.

Most gunowners arent NES.
 
I‘ve carried compacts and subcompacts and currently carry a P365, but I have a G40 and everything in between (4 Government Series 1911s). I love the longer barreled guns for range time, but also practice with all my guns. Variety is a spice of life.
 
**DRB** said:
Im not a first timer with a handgun - no of course a 365/Hellcat is nothing like a 19. What Im saying is, what i

How many people buy a 19, 9c or similar to carry and then leave it at home most of the time? How many people buy a “Duty grade pistol” (I’m not sure what the hell that is) and all it sees is static firing line activity for 200-300 rounds before its traded in for yet another “DGP” designed 30 years ago.
Click to expand...

Lol, they leave it at home because they're lazy or whatever, that's not the gun's fault. There were decent carry guns decades ago that doesn't change the motives. If the only reason
they're not carrying is because their gun is too big and they have enough funds to get something else, then they're not very bright.

I know people who do what you describe but these people aren't serious about anything. There's a guy who has literally been doing exactly what you describe for the past like 20
years. He buys something, shoots it, sucks with it, blames the gun, returns and buys something else. It got to a point when I saw a used gun on a consignment rack I could tell it was one
of his because it was barely used. [rofl] As I write this, I wonder how many people will read it and know exactly who I'm talking about.

If capacity, presentation time and shooter accuracy are similar with a smaller gun, why not carry the smaller gun? Handguns are shitty compromises anyway, why cart around more compromise than needed?
Click to expand...

And if pigs could fly, we would all have mail order bacon. [laugh] If that magically happens when the gun is in your hand, then more power to you.

I just think the ergonomics of more normal handguns are better, plus you get some muzzle velocity back as well. Not to mention a better sight radius.

Do I carry subs? yes, most of the time actually, because it's better than nothing. But if I was forced into "only owning one gun" there's no way I wouldn't
pick a mid or a full sized gun as a matter of preference.

This isnt about any specific gun, I mentioned the 365 / 365xl as that’s what I own. This isn’t an advertisement for either.
Click to expand...

yes, I get that.

Mindless fapping? Listen to yourself gushing over terms like “duty grade” and 30 year old gun designs where innovation is adding finger grooves for one generation and the removing those same finger grooves 2 generations later as a “feature”


I have at least 30k rounds through a Glock 34 and 19 they are highly functional and super reliable firearms. Coming to the conclusion that gun design stops there because “perfection” is super Fudd.
Click to expand...

This isn't a glock thing, I could substitute Glock, Sig, or whatever, my opinion wouldn't change.

ETA: don't get me wrong I'm glad these products exist, I just don't see them making other products irrelevant because someone put a G26 on a diet and added a couple of rounds.
Yeah if joe or jane shooter has a fixed budget and they just want to defend themselves, they should buy a 365, M&P Hygeineproduct, whatever it is, and go from there. That's
not a horrendous idea if they can handle the guns well enough to get proficient with them.

Most gunowners arent NES.
Click to expand...

Most gun owners don't carry. Especially not in this state. NES is probably above average carry rate vs most places. I know a bunch of people who have guns outside of
NES. 90% of them don't carry on the reg.

-Mike
 
Wickedcoolname said:
I would ask a different question. Is a compact pistol necessary? I'd say for most of us the answer is no.
Click to expand...

A lot of guns aren't strictly necessary but it gives people options. I have smaller guns because it prevents me from making excuses to not
carry anything, as well as making it more concealable for some circumstances. Job #2 brings me in a few moonbat houses, I can't really get
away with printing, there.

Secondly, what is the fascination with compact guns anyway? Unless you're in a profession like undercover cop or double oh spy you probably don't really need a perfectly concealed gun.
Click to expand...

Not the case for me (I can't, because job #1 = school = felony) but I know there are a shitload of people on NES that carry guns in NPE's. (non permissive enivronments) having a gun you can be more assured of keeping hidden is a must in these cases. For example, people work for conhugeco corporate retard places where getting caught with a gun, while not illegal, will change your name to Ayewillbe Fayed, in about 5 minutes if the wrong people spot it, which in an NPE is likely most of the rest of the people there.... and some folks might find they can get away with a 365, a 43, or similar, while avoiding having to put themselves into total mousegun class, which pretty much sucks.

There's also a nexus/tie in with carry methods, too. For example some guy or lady might decide they can carry AIWB but they can't do it well with a larger gun... and OAL often plays a serious
role in appendix carry deals. The 6" barrel thing doesn't work well on appendix carry. [laugh]

Options are good to have. Some people want options. Others don't want, or don't need them.
 
For almost 20 years I’ve carried a full size 1911 IWB during the non-hot months. I can’t even count how many smaller autos I’ve tried for summer carry but for 3 years it’s been the P938. I am a firm believer in “carry as much gun as you can” and most times it’s a question of comfort and concealability. If you’re serious about being adequately armed all the time there’s also the matter of being in shape enough to be able to carry what you’d need to get you out of pretty much any situation alive. Like tomorrow when I get out of work early for Presidents’ Day I’ll be doing about an 8 mile hike in the woods with the 1911, 2 spare mags, a canteen of water and the other small EDC items. Would it be an easier hike with the G42 and one spare mag? Absolutely. I shoot the 1911 way better though, and it’s worth it to me to lug that big ol’ auto around for hours knowing that I can bring more game with it than I could with any other handgun in my safes. I can think of at least two times in my life I’ve found myself in a situation thinking “Dammit I really wish my Colt was on my hip instead of ...”
 
I usually carry 380 so I tend to shoot more 9mm for the lower cost so I’d rather have a full size. Though I still do make sure to shoot what I carry for obvious reasons
 
The first pistol i owned was a SW Shield. Its a good pistol and i still have it and ill likely never get rid of it. I probably carry it 2% of the time. Through some practice i learned i could carry a G19 with just a wee bit more effort and i never looked back. I shoot it a little better and actually its more comfortable for the way i carry, appendix. There are sometimes where i really do need to go small and light, and the shield is a bit too big and heavy for that purpose. The shield (and others in that form factor) are good guns if i was set on carrying iwb at 3-5:00 in the summer, but for me thats kind of a niche method of carry.

The p365xl is intriguing for carry, but a double stack pistol with a light on it is still way ahead for HD and without a light even for carry. Its usually not hard to get away with.
 
I've gone the complete opposite direction. Started with Shield 9mm and Kahr P9, both of which are subcompacts. I'm now carrying a G19 sized P80, and would go larger if I could conceal it (which I can't. G19 is the limit for me). I have a P365 as well. Shoots well enough and definitely disappears in clothing, but if I'm being honest, it isn't exactly a pleasure to shoot. Grip doesn't fill out my hand, and as a result digs into the corner of my palm. It is snappy as all subcompacts are as well. It was something I didn't even realize until shooting the P80 and then going back. P80 just feels a hell of a lot better. Fills out my hand and shoots a lot flatter, probably due to weight.

The increase in capacity is nice in these newer subcompacts. Truly a marvel of modern technology, but they are still micro guns that fit and feel as such. There is definitely a place for them, but I'm more of the philosophy of carrying the largest gun you are comfortable carrying these days. My subs still come out while in work clothing or sometimes in the summer, but I carry the G19 P80 most other times now.
 

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