"Interesting" gun experience in Israel

[GM]

Traveling in a crowded train in Israel with a bunch with solders traveling to a military base. Kind of an interesting experience feeling the muzzle of an AR-15 touching my left thigh and the muzzle of another one pointing at my knee.


Just to add to the picture. A few minutes ago, before boarding the train, I was watching a 17-18 y.o. soldier kid, bored to death, guarding a railway station, playing around with the safety on his gun - on, off, on, off... with a mag attached.


And they have 5 times fewer deaths related to guns per 100,000 of population than the US...

 

[DarthRevan]

Just to add to the picture. A few minutes ago, before boarding the train, I was watching a 17-18 y.o. soldier kid, bored to death, guarding a railway station, playing around with the safety on his gun - on, off, on, off... with a mag attached.


And they have 5 times fewer deaths related to guns per 100,000 of population than the US...

I do that all the time with my Beretta on my hip lol

- - - Updated - - -

Any idea if these guys were carrying autos or do they get issued semis?

 

[Scarab440]

My understanding is IDF doesn't carry with a loaded mag in the well

 

[GM]

Any idea if these guys were carrying autos or do they get issued semis?

i've seen Auto on the switch. Looks like full auto.

 

[GM]

My understanding is IDF doesn't carry with a loaded mag in the well

yes, off duty they are travelling with mags attached to their rifles with rubber bands.

they guy who was playing with his safety had a mag attached, as he was on duty.

Anyway, kind of weird feeling - guns pointing at you in a crowd on a train. I believe in a few days I will get used to it, but by the looks of other tourists it seems not only I was uncomfortable.

 

[boiler_eng]

My understanding is IDF doesn't carry with a loaded mag in the well

At plants I have been to that was standard for the gate guards but that isn't surprising as they are private armed guards for a company.

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[kalash]

Anyway, kind of weird feeling - guns pointing at you in a crowd on a train.

Whenever I'm on public transit and pocket carrying, my gun points at whoever is in front of me.

 

[mac1911]

yes, off duty they are travelling with mags attached to their rifles with rubber bands.

they guy who was playing with his safety had a mag attached, as he was on duty.

Anyway, kind of weird feeling - guns pointing at you in a crowd on a train. I believe in a few days I will get used to it, but by the looks of other tourists it seems not only I was uncomfortable.

Good chance to remind them of fundamental gun safety... and ask politely....can you get that muzzle off my thigh...

 

[MaverickNH]

I was taking the bus between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and there were a lot of soldiers on board. The guy next to me leaned his M16 against the wall and nodded off. When they came to his stop part-way between cities, everyone shouted at him and he awoke and stumbled towards the door. I reached down, picked up his rifle and shouted "Hey, you forgot your rifle" while holding it up. Probably pretty stupid, but everyone saw the American on the bus - no Palestinians rode Israeli buses or cabs. A nearby guy grabbed it from me and they passed is up giving him. A lot of smacktalk in Hebrew.

This was during Obama's early years, when he was talking down Israel. Everyone asked and I said Obama has about 50/50 popular support even though he won the election. And I added my destain for Obama and support for Israel, so all went well.

Then there was the tousle in The Old City souk when I was tackled, along with a fleeing Arab shoplifter by Israeli shop security, then the local Israeli police, then the IDF. The Arab kept getting free and running and we kept getting tangled in the mess of responding security. The third time, I twisted my knee pretty bad. All the nearby Arabs pointed at me and said "He did it, he did it." I just said "I'm an American tourist and stole nothing." I got the thumb to take off, and limped away. There were numerous muzzles pointed at me throughout.

Another time, I was walking the terraces high overlooking the Western "Wailing" Wall and turned the corner to see a large group of armed soldiers and plainscloths police looking at something. I got a quick glance, the "get out of here" nod and retreated quickly.

Plenty of vintage rifles carried by young mens and women escorting groups of kids in from outlining areas. Armed guards everywhere. No empty meg wells, and I assume all firearms were loaded.


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[76Too]

Traveling in a crowded train in Israel with a bunch with solders traveling to a military base. Kind of an interesting experience feeling the muzzle of an AR-15 touching my left thigh and the muzzle of another one pointing at my knee.


Just to add to the picture. A few minutes ago, before boarding the train, I was watching a 17-18 y.o. soldier kid, bored to death, guarding a railway station, playing around with the safety on his gun - on, off, on, off... with a mag attached.


And they have 5 times fewer deaths related to guns per 100,000 of population than the US...

I have a dream for America...and this is it!

i'll take a nice cozy seat next to Maura on the bus with a shit eating grin till the cows come home.

 

[Spanz]

I was taking the bus between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and there were a lot of soldiers on board. The guy next to me leaned his M16 against the wall and nodded off. When they came to his stop part-way between cities, everyone shouted at him and he awoke and stumbled towards the door. I reached down, picked up his rifle and shouted "Hey, you forgot your rifle" while holding it up. Probably pretty stupid, but everyone saw the American on the bus - no Palestinians rode Israeli buses or cabs. A nearby guy grabbed it from me and they passed is up giving him. A lot of smacktalk in Hebrew.

This was during Obama's early years, when he was talking down Israel. Everyone asked and I said Obama has about 50/50 popular support even though he won the election. And I added my destain for Obama and support for Israel, so all went well.

Then there was the tousle in The Old City souk when I was tackled, along with a fleeing Arab shoplifter by Israeli shop security, then the local Israeli police, then the IDF. The Arab kept getting free and running and we kept getting tangled in the mess of responding security. The third time, I twisted my knee pretty bad. All the nearby Arabs pointed at me and said "He did it, he did it." I just said "I'm an American tourist and stole nothing." I got the thumb to take off, and limped away. There were numerous muzzles pointed at me throughout.

Another time, I was walking the terraces high overlooking the Western "Wailing" Wall and turned the corner to see a large group of armed soldiers and plainscloths police looking at something. I got a quick glance, the "get out of here" nod and retreated quickly.

Plenty of vintage rifles carried by young mens and women escorting groups of kids in from outlining areas. Armed guards everywhere. No empty meg wells, and I assume all firearms were loaded.


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i got a blowout in my car just outside the old jerusalem wall. Since it was a rental car, AND the jack looked pretty inadequate, i was waiting for Hertz to show up to fix it. Along strolls an israeli police officer, and he had some serious doubts about me parking there....kept asking why i am not fixing it, etc. Took about 10 minutes to finally convince him i was just an American tourist, and not there to blow something up. I assumed if i had also looked at all like a Palesinian, it would have be a much more unpleasant experience.

they really do take their security seriously there.

 

[Picton]

Never been to Israel, but anyone who's been in any Army learns real fast not to get worked up about their friends' muzzles pointed at them while on trans.

I learned the "four rules" after I got out of the army, and the muzzle awareness piece has never bothered me much. You can't do an infantry patrol properly without sweeping your buddies repeatedly. I doubt IDF soldiers care much about it, either.

They'd probably move their muzzle if you asked, but they wouldn't see the point. It's an unloaded rifle with the safety on and no finger on the trigger; who cares (they'd ask themselves) what it's pointing at?

 

[calsdad]

Traveling in a crowded train in Israel with a bunch with solders traveling to a military base. Kind of an interesting experience feeling the muzzle of an AR-15 touching my left thigh and the muzzle of another one pointing at my knee.


Just to add to the picture. A few minutes ago, before boarding the train, I was watching a 17-18 y.o. soldier kid, bored to death, guarding a railway station, playing around with the safety on his gun - on, off, on, off... with a mag attached.


And they have 5 times fewer deaths related to guns per 100,000 of population than the US...

They're conveniently missing the segment of the US population that is responsible for those murders.

I hear a lot of calls for "reparations" lately - I think we ought to invoke the Dyslexia Clause - and give them "repatriations" instead. We can send them to Israel - that ought to even out the murder rate.

 

[crazymjb]

Never been to Israel, but anyone who's been in any Army learns real fast not to get worked up about their friends' muzzles pointed at them while on trans.

I learned the "four rules" after I got out of the army, and the muzzle awareness piece has never bothered me much. You can't do an infantry patrol properly without sweeping your buddies repeatedly. I doubt IDF soldiers care much about it, either.

They'd probably move their muzzle if you asked, but they wouldn't see the point. It's an unloaded rifle with the safety on and no finger on the trigger; who cares (they'd ask themselves) what it's pointing at?

We had the 4, and later 5 rules pretty thoroughly beat into us... That said, I've seen stuff that makes me uncomfortable as far as muzzle awareness in the military. Unfortunately when you have a rifle on you 24/7 it's easy to get complacent, especially between training evolutions, in transit, etc. As far as patrolling goes, yes, a good amount of muzzle sweeping goes on, you try to at least get the barrel above head or below mid-torso when maneuvering if you are cognizant of it, but it happens. It's the stupid ****-**** shit I've seen that pisses me off. Kids are kids, and I've seen some dumb shit.

Same theory with vehicles as well, when you are traversing turrets, you inevitably will be sweeping past other vehicles in your patrol, that said, if possible throwing the barrel up when doing so is good practice. One of the last big maneuver ranges I did right after I yelled over the radio for the gunner in the truck ahead of me to traverse is ****ing turret, a .50 cal round cooked off. He almost merc'd the kid in the truck in front of him. Fun fact, you could see where the primer flowed out into the firing pin hole, rather than the other way around. I made them find the brass in case anyone tried to accuse the kid of an ND.

Mike

 

[92G]

my understanding is they carry everything condition 3. empty chamber. full mag. so i am told. have never confirmed this (thankfully)

 

[dwarven1]

Anyway, kind of weird feeling - guns pointing at you in a crowd on a train. I believe in a few days I will get used to it, but by the looks of other tourists it seems not only I was uncomfortable.

Good chance to remind them of fundamental gun safety... and ask politely....can you get that muzzle off my thigh...

Back in 1974, I was on a tour bus in Israel, driving through the desert. In the middle of nowhere, with NOTHING in view but sand, rocks and a bus stop, were a few men and women from the Israeli Air Force. Including this guy, Capt. David {I forget his last name}. He gets on, sits down with his Uzi slung and pointed at me. I just reach down with a finger and gently point it to the seat in front of me. (OK, I was 14 - didn't occur to me that it was then pointed at the clown in the front seat. Or maybe I did; kid who was seated there was a DB.)

 

[Da_lucche]

Traveling in a crowded train in Israel with a bunch with solders traveling to a military base. Kind of an interesting experience feeling the muzzle of an AR-15 touching my left thigh and the muzzle of another one pointing at my knee.


Just to add to the picture. A few minutes ago, before boarding the train, I was watching a 17-18 y.o. soldier kid, bored to death, guarding a railway station, playing around with the safety on his gun - on, off, on, off... with a mag attached.


And they have 5 times fewer deaths related to guns per 100,000 of population than the US...

Israel does not have the same amount of criminal gang drug violence as we see committed by certain demographics in the USA.

If you subtract suicides and gang on gang/criminal on criminal/drug violence in the USA, you're left with approximately 4,300 gun deaths in a country of 320,000,000 with 300,000,000 guns in civilian hands.

That's 1.32 per 100;000 while Israel is 2.10 per 100,000 with only 620,000 firearms in civilian hands (not including military issued).

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[je25ff]

Back in 1974, I was on a tour bus in Israel, driving through the desert. In the middle of nowhere, with NOTHING in view but sand, rocks and a bus stop, were a few men and women from the Israeli Air Force. Including this guy, Capt. David {I forget his last name}. He gets on, sits down with his Uzi slung and pointed at me. I just reach down with a finger and gently point it to the seat in front of me. (OK, I was 14 - didn't occur to me that it was then pointed at the clown in the front seat. Or maybe I did; kid who was seated there was a DB.)

'Dose socks...

 

[HiCap]

Stay safe.

 

[dennism]

That was not a muzzle, he was just happy to see you

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[Darkstar888]

Pretty sure they never have a round in the chamber until ready to fire. At least that's how it used to be. I know the practice started with the handguns as they had no single issued weapon. With all the varying manual of arms they developed the Israeli draw where they rack the slide as part of the draw stroke. This way they could all train the same regardless of onboard safety's and such. Not sure if this transferred to long guns as well though.


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[PatMcD]

I think back to the huge purse fight we had on the Facebook group "Gun Owners of maine" about the toe buttons that clay bird shooters wear on their shoes to rest an unloaded muzzle on.

 

[kalash]

I think back to the huge purse fight we had on the Facebook group "Gun Owners of maine" about the toe buttons that clay bird shooters wear on their shoes to rest an unloaded muzzle on.

I have no idea why shotgun shooters don't use a damn sling.

 

[ridleyman]

'Dose socks...

and dose shorts! I try to stay away from the 60s and 70s...........flashback: oh my God, bellbottoms!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was in Israel in early 80s as college student hanging out with friend and family, and we picked up hitchhiking IDFs w/m16s and one with an Uzi. One of the guys took out mag and let me handle Uzi. I cleared it, fondl-er-examined it and got a serious gun woody (weird, but gunnies get it)!!!

 

[Boris]

I heard that M16 was called a "sweeper" because when slung over the shoulder in the crowded bus, turning around causes a whole lot of people around getting swiped with some metal end. I've never paid attention to people carrying over there, very common place.

 

[calsdad]

Israel does not have the same amount of criminal gang drug violence as we see committed by certain demographics in the USA.

If you subtract suicides and gang on gang/criminal on criminal/drug violence in the USA, you're left with approximately 4,300 gun deaths in a country of 320,000,000 with 300,000,000 guns in civilian hands.

That's 1.32 per 100;000 while Israel is 2.10 per 100,000 with only 620,000 firearms in civilian hands (not including military issued).

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Exactly.

It's well past time people started speaking the truth about what the left wants to keep calling "gun violence" in this country.

The truth is - except for a certain demographic - murders are very low in this country.

 

[Pinion]

You'll see chicks in Israel at the pool with M16 's or M4's or whatever. Its kind of hot.

 

[dwarven1]

and dose shorts! I try to stay away from the 60s and 70s...........flashback: oh my God, bellbottoms!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was in Israel in early 80s as college student hanging out with friend and family, and we picked up hitchhiking IDFs w/m16s and one with an Uzi. One of the guys took out mag and let me handle Uzi. I cleared it, fondl-er-examined it and got a serious gun woody (weird, but gunnies get it)!!!

Guys. Get over it. It was 1974 and I was 14. If I went today, I'd probably be wearing a kilt.

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[sbi]

my understanding is they carry everything condition 3. empty chamber. full mag. so i am told. have never confirmed this (thankfully)

Correct.

Back in 1974, I was on a tour bus in Israel, driving through the desert. In the middle of nowhere, with NOTHING in view but sand, rocks and a bus stop, were a few men and women from the Israeli Air Force. Including this guy, Capt. David {I forget his last name}. He gets on, sits down with his Uzi slung and pointed at me. I just reach down with a finger and gently point it to the seat in front of me. (OK, I was 14 - didn't occur to me that it was then pointed at the clown in the front seat. Or maybe I did; kid who was seated there was a DB.)

He is not a captain in this pic, he is a flight cadet. IAF Flight School is near Beer Sheba which is in the Negev (desert), and so in Israeli terms it was probably pretty close to where this picture was taken

 

[voidoid]

While pistols are often "Israeli carried" (mag in, empty chamber), rifles are never carried with a magazine in when off duty. Instead, you'll commonly see a special magazine attachment that connects the mag to the rifle via the magwell. This is a little hard to describe, but here's an image and some more info can be found here.

I don't recall whether they were using these for Tavors...last time I was in Israel they were still making the switch and I only saw a few Tavors here and there being carried on duty. Can't remember if they used the same device.