Insurance company request- what do you suggest?

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Lugnut

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I just recieved a request from my primary home's insurance company. Here's what they asked and I'm not comfortable answering... thoughts?

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"XYZ Ins" has requested a copy of for your "non primary" property.

They would also like an inventory of your pistols and rifles. Specifically, how many of each, whether they are kept locked up and whether you also have ammunition.

Please advise at your earliest convenience.
*****************************************************

The above was the jist of the message. The bolded section was an exact quote.

So... I'm really not even sure how they know I have another property for one. They did ask in a survey if I had firearms in primary house. I understand if they cover the firearms but I'm honestly not comfortable sharing this information.

I did a search on this subject and got dozens of unrelated threads so please don't tell me to search.
 
Is "XYZ Ins, Your insurance company? Or is it a what they call a long lines insurance company, meaning a company that specializes in taking on certain hazardous catagories of risks.

If their not you insurance company it means your insurance company has a contacted them to handle a risk that they don't want to assume.

If that is the case your better off getting insurance for your collection, from another company. One good reason is cost, your insurance company will tack on a hefty surcharge. Also you don't know their rating.

I've been dealing with long lines insurance companies for my work for 30 yers, there are all different types.
 
Lugnut said:
I just recieved a request from my primary home's insurance company. Here's what they asked and I'm not comfortable answering... thoughts?

****************************************************
"XYZ Ins" has requested a copy of for your "non primary" property.

They would also like an inventory of your pistols and rifles. Specifically, how many of each, whether they are kept locked up and whether you also have ammunition.

Please advise at your earliest convenience.
*****************************************************

The above was the jist of the message. The bolded section was an exact quote.

So... I'm really not even sure how they know I have another property for one. They did ask in a survey if I had firearms in primary house. I understand if they cover the firearms but I'm honestly not comfortable sharing this information.

I did a search on this subject and got dozens of unrelated threads so please don't tell me to search.
Click to expand...

I would ask them why and tell them they need to put it in writing before
I would tell them anything. In the meantime I would look for another
company. At the least I would not renew with them and I would
stonewall them until your existing policy is up for renewal.

TBP
 
Bugs100 said:
Is "XYZ Ins, Your insurance company? Or is it a what they call a long lines insurance company, meaning a company that specializes in taking on certain hazardous catagories of risks.

If their not you insurance company it means your insurance company has a contacted them to handle a risk that they don't want to assume.

If that is the case your better off getting insurance for your collection, from another company. One good reason is cost, your insurance company will tack on a hefty surcharge. Also you don't know their rating.

I've been dealing with long lines insurance companies for my work for 30 yers, there are all different types.
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Yes- XYZ is my insurance company. It is Arbella for that matter... for some reason I was hesitant to post the actual company.
 
matt said:
You're sure its from the insurance company? Is the return address correct?
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Actually it's my agent's letter... but they specifically requested that my insurance company asked for all this. The agent is Eastern Insurance, Arbella is the insurance company.
 
I would request in writing the reasons for asking such questions.

Do they insure your "non-primary" property? If not, I would not tell them a thing about it.

As for the firearms, again, I would ask in writing. If you don't like their answer, you can always exclude them from coverage and insure them with someone else, like the NRA's insurance company.

As the TBP said, start shopping for another insurer. They may decide to cancel your coverage due to you being an excessive liability risk.

I'm no insurance expert, but I think I see where they are headed.
 
Some companies will not insure households that contain guns, claiming "liability".

Others won't insure households where any member may have a specific disease/medical condition. [After fielding a phone call while I was talking with an agent in CT back in the early 1970s, he offered that a specific company would not write homeowners or auto insurance if anyone in the household (even a non-driver) had epilepsy (the subject of the phone conversation that he had) due to "liability"!]

I had an Amica underwriter tell me that they would not provide any insurance to a household where a member was a member of a School Committee, Selectman, etc. due to lawsuits that folks bring against such people.

If company x is not covering my goods, I would tell them nothing about said goods. If the company goes on a witch-hunt, asking questions about what you have in said house, do you play certain sports, hunt, fish, etc. I'd be looking elsewhere as you can see the handwriting on the wall.

And if they cancel you, that info goes into a central database accessible to all insurance companies. This makes you an "assigned risk" and forces you to pay thru the nose, even if you've never done anything wrong.
 
LenS said:
Some companies will not insure households that contain guns, claiming "liability".

Others won't insure households where any member may have a specific disease/medical condition. [After fielding a phone call while I was talking with an agent in CT back in the early 1970s, he offered that a specific company would not write homeowners or auto insurance if anyone in the household (even a non-driver) had epilepsy (the subject of the phone conversation that he had) due to "liability"!]
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Jesus! If that don't sound like gun-control logic to me! I have a few family members who are epileptic, and both of them are licenced to drive. If your epilepsy is well controled by medication you are no worse of a risk of driving than somebody with a family history of heart disease (or alcoholism for that matter [rolleyes])

If by chance you are one of those unfortunate souls who have uncontrolable Epliepsy you are not allowed to drive. EVER. So what gives?

Makes me angry!

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard
 
If the broker is the Eastern Insurance Co/Reilly Group in Pembrook I'm really perplexed. They are the company that offers coverage on collectibles, including guns through a program they worked out with Chubb. It was covered in an earlier thread here
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9653&highlight=insure

I had a great conversation with thier VP last week concerning the plan. His name is Jack Richardson and he is knowledgable about firearms. If its the same agency, you may want to contact him and find out whats going on. In my conversations with him, he was clearly understanding why gun owners would like to not publicize what existed in their collection.

The website for the plan is http://www.historicfirearms.com/

Good luck
Bugie
 
Weer'd Beard said:
If by chance you are one of those unfortunate souls who have uncontrolable Epliepsy you are not allowed to drive. EVER. So what gives?
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It is not as simple as that.

I know an individual who has had totaled two vehicles due to epileptic seizures. In each case he lost his license until he was seizure free for a period of time, and had his license reinstated after providing medical documentation. Since these accidents were not his fault, I don't think he was even surcharged. I am glad he is able to participate in all society has to offer, but if I were an insurance company and had the choice, I would not be willing to bet he would not have a third totalling, and I certainly wouldn't insure him at standard rates.

There is no easy answer to "where do you draw the line?" Driving is such a necessity today, and society rends to recognize that face. It may be a "privilege" (at least that's what the gov't likes to tell you), but there would be hell to pay if the registry started treating it as such and applied arbitrary standards such as "not a person suitable to be so licensed based on sealed records, heresay, and the administrator's conclusion that no one living near public transport needs to drive."

Society can revoke license for life for a single violation with no damage or injury, since the public does not see gun ownership as a necessity and the citizenry won't react to such draconian actions by thinking "there but for the grace of God go I".

Just imagine if the penalty for any accident in which there was injury and the driver was found at fault was a lifetime driver's license loss. The public wouild not tolerate this, as everyone realizes it is very possible they will have their own at-fault, citation issued, accident with personal injury.
 
On the other hand, how much your collection is valued at, and how well protected it is is certainly a concern of the company that will write you a check if it is stolen or damaged. It may be a hidden agenda but then again, it may just be a legitimate question. Obviously when they insure your car, they want to know how many miles a year you are going to drive it and its value. Same with guns.
 
OK. So it sounds likes many of you have already provided some of this information to the insurance companies correct? Maybe I should tell them I'll send the list if they can assure me it doesn't leave the insurance company and its only use is to determine coverage.
 
Bugie,

Looks interesting, but raises a few questions (IMPORTANT: See my note below):

- Mention on the website is made that the policy is designed for collections worth >$50K. Many of us aspire to this level but aren't there yet! [smile] Do they actually cover collections in the lower ranges?

- How do they compare with Collectibles Insurance Agency plan? http://www.collectinsure.com The downside to this plan is that they won't cover "carry guns" and only want you to take any particular gun to the range a few times/year (number of times is not defined).

- Relative costs. Collectibles Insurance is ~1/2 of what NRA charges and ~1/4 what a rider on a homeowners policy would cost, plus offers insurance in transit (car or common carrier) that homeowners doesn't include and I don't think NRA does either.

- Does having a safe and/or a monitored alarm system lower the rate structure for more modest collections (in the $5K to 25K range)?

- Does a carry gun (one you have on your person 24x7) have coverage under your plan?

- Does your rate structure vary with state? With city/town within a state? I intend to post your responses on our NortheastShooters.com forum and folks live anywhere in the Northeast region of the US.

- Who actually underwrites this policy? Name of company and Best rating is useful.

Bugie, I don't expect you to know the answers to all of the above. I'm throwing out these questions because each of us should have these same questions and want relevant answers to them. [NOTE: All of the above questions have been forwarded to their default Email address, including the fact that I intend to post their responses here.] If I like what I hear/read, I intend to ask TPTB to invite them to talk at a couple of local gun clubs.
 
A couple of points on insurance:

- My example of what transpired >30 years ago in CT wrt epilepsy was NOT A DRIVER. In that case it was homeowners being denied to a family with either a small child with epilepsy or an elderly man (probably father of one of the homeowners living with them). I still see no justification for the insurance company's position.

- Many years ago I was "educated" by an insurance company that if someone has a heart attack, an epileptic seizure, diabetic reaction, etc. while driving . . . the resulting damage is always considered "an act of G_d" and blame is never laid on the driver with the medical problem. In some ways I agree with this . . . where I disagree is that if a medical professional tells you that you are at high risk of blacking out/having an attack while driving, and you continue to drive you should be held responsible.

At any rate, I've learned to distrust insurance companies for the following reasons:

- Insurance company representatives actually sit at the MA RMV and have access to privileged info on every driver's record. [I was told this by a RMV official a number of years ago. Although I have no reason to believe it any different today, I have not verified that this is still true today.]

- Insurance companies SHARE their info on each client with a database company, so what you tell one in confidence can NOT be assured not to be sold later to another company for a different reason! The intent of the database is to avoid fraudulent people bouncing from company to company, screwing each one with claims based on fraudulent info. The potential for misusing it is blatantly there in my mind, thus I don't trust any of them.
 
State Farm gives me a total of five thousand on firearms. Additional coverage was not available. No list was requested.

However, they questioned me at great lenght about my activities as a scuba diver and training assistant. I was on the phone with the main office for over twenty minutes going over past and futuree activities. This was in reference for a new life insurance policy. I have my main coverage through a specialty group at a low cost.

My agent suggested a group such as the NRA for additional coverage for my firearms.
 
Len,

I had a nice ceonversation with the VP who handles the plan. He actually worked with Chubb to craft the plan. If any one is interested, I recommend giving him a call. His name is Jack Richardson and he can be reached at (888) 765-3486


LenS said:
- Mention on the website is made that the policy is designed for collections worth >$50K. Many of us aspire to this level but aren't there yet! [smile] Do they actually cover collections in the lower ranges?
Click to expand...

It was the first question I asked. In the literature they send out, they talk about an introductory plan for $25,000 in coverage for something around $125/year (sorry I don't remember the exact number but I do have it at home.) They will write a policy for $20,000 min for $86/year


How do they compare with Collectibles Insurance Agency plan? http://www.collectinsure.com The downside to this plan is that they won't cover "carry guns" and only want you to take any particular gun to the range a few times/year (number of times is not defined).
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I didn't specifically ask about carry guns, although the plan recognizes and covers for guns taken to the range and to shows. It even covers kabooms when its not user error. On the application it askes how often pieces of your collection travel

- Relative costs. Collectibles Insurance is ~1/2 of what NRA charges and ~1/4 what a rider on a homeowners policy would cost, plus offers insurance in transit (car or common carrier) that homeowners doesn't include and I don't think NRA does either.
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As noted above, about $125/yr for $25,000 inb coverage and $86 for $20,000.

- Does having a safe and/or a monitored alarm system lower the rate structure for more modest collections (in the $5K to 25K range)?
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Tha application asks whether the collection is stored in a safe and whether fire alarm/burglar alarm systems are installed. I imagine the answers to those questions will impact the rates but I'm not sure by how much

- Does a carry gun (one you have on your person 24x7) have coverage under your plan?
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As noted above, not a question I directly asked so I won't speculate

- Does your rate structure vary with state? With city/town within a state? I intend to post your responses on our NortheastShooters.com forum and folks live anywhere in the Northeast region of the US.
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Jack stated that actually there are few policy holders from MA right now but it is increasing. Mainly plan participants are from the Mid Atlantic down and on the West Coast.

- Who actually underwrites this policy? Name of company and Best rating is useful.
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Policy is underwriten by Chubb Insurance Group. I believe their rating is A++

I talked the policy over with my own agent,(who is my closest friend).We looked at three options, NRA, Collectibles Insurance Co and Historic Fireams.We came to the conclusion that Historic was the best choice for me however I urge everyone to find a plan that fits your individual needs.

You have the option for blanket coverage which means you do not have to provide a schedule of firearms unless the value of an individual piece exceeds $50,000. If your interested I suggest everyone to check it out for themselves.

Hope this helps

Bugie
 
At first I didn't know why the concern or what the problem was. Then I read the part about a collection close to $50,000. I can see where they would want some specifics then. Otherwise, doesn't regular homeowner's insurance just cover what you have if it isn't some "fancy" collection?

Second, doesn't the NRA offer some sort of insurance?
 
Bugie,

Thanks. That's why I sent them "my questionnaire".

The rates look in line with Collectibles' cost and a lot cheaper than NRA or homeowners rider.

I suspect that not that many have $20K in guns, so that might limit interest.

Collectibles doesn't really lower rates for safe/monitored alarm systems until you get in the "stratosphere" (I forget if it was $50K or $100K before it was more than a few dollars/year savings). This didn't make sense to me as it seems to me that the risk should be a helluva lot less with a safe/alarm than hanging them on the walls (for those in free states that can still do that without locks/cases). Since it didn't affect me, I just shook my head at the anomaly.

Carry gun issue may not effect many, but good to know their coverage on this.

Where you are located definitely affects real risk, so knowing if they charge more in Boston/Brockton/Springfield than they would in Monson/Dover/Weston/etc. is useful info to some.

I never heard of them before and only could find info on NRA and Collectibles when I was looking (probably 10 years ago). That could account for few MA customers. If info looks good, exposure at Braintree R&P and/or Mansfield F&G might change that. Thus, I asked a lot of general questions that can be used by others to judge the value to them.

I much prefer the info in writing (Email) rather than a phone conversation with me writing notes that may be wrong/out of context/etc.
 
Coyote33 said:
At first I didn't know why the concern or what the problem was. Then I read the part about a collection close to $50,000. I can see where they would want some specifics then. Otherwise, doesn't regular homeowners insurance just cover what you have if it isn't some "fancy" collection?

Second, doesn't the NRA offer some sort of insurance?
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No, a standard homeowners policy will only cover $1-2K typically. And if the company is anti-gun, a claim will cause them to cancel all your insurance. Riders may be available, but the rates are outrageous (2x+ NRA rates). Typically this is very poor or no coverage if stolen from your car and definitely no coverage if stolen/lost while being shipped somewhere.

NRA insurance is an option, but still expensive (2x Collectibles). IIRC, members and life members get some fixed amount at no cost. Not sure if you even have to do anything for the fixed amount. I think it was $1K last I looked (many years ago) for Life Members. I'm not sure that NRA covers "in transit" (stolen from car) or if you ship something and it is lost/stolen in transit.
 
From the NRA website:


NRA Membership Benefits

$1000 of ArmsCare coverage with your NRA membership. This plan covers insured firearms, air guns, bows and arrows against theft, accidental loss, and damage. For special provisions and limitations of the ArmsCare Plan click here. http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/armscare.asp (ArmsCare) or here: http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/collectors.asp for Gun collectors Insurance.

New and Enhanced insurance coverages through the NRA Endorsed Insurance Programs. Enroll on-line for Life, Health and Accident and Individual Property and Liability insurance or call Toll free 1-877-NRA-3006 (1-877-672-3006.) New Commercial Property Liability Insurance Program for NRA Affiliated Clubs and Business Alliance Members, visit on-line or call Toll Free 1-877-487-5407.



Lockton is the same company that insures Veterans Oganization buildings. They cover our Legion Hall.
 
Well today I called the insurance agent. I told them I'm not interested in disclosing the inventory list if the policy only covers $1000 or so anyway. When they asked if they are stored locked and if I have ammo and if its locked I said: "well under MA law it's illegal to not lock these... so yes". We'll see if they ask for more info.
 
I just switched homeowner's insurance companies and they sent an inspector to the house. He was a nice older gentleman. He noticed the gun cases and locked closet in my gun room and asked if I stored guns and ammunition in the house. I said yes, and he said "Good for you".

I plan to get a rider and itemize the guns just like I do my cameras, so they can be replaced if stolen or damaged.
 
Pilgrim said:
only guns need to be locked. This was discussed in the Law Section of the firum.
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Regrettably not true. MGLs only demand that guns be locked.

CMRs under fire protection demand that ammo be locked. Enforced by local fire chief and only an issue if a loss and insurance company gets incident report by PD and FD if it states that ammo was found not locked up (insurance company can then legally refuse to pay). All this info confirmed recently with discussion with my local fire chief.
 
For most people, a fire loss of a few boxes of ammo is small potatoes compared to the bigger picture. If it is a large store of ammo, sure then lock it up.
 
They can probably deny ALL your claims for that "event", not just the few boxes of ammo. The insurance company will claim (according to what I was told) that the ammo was an "accelerant" which worsened the damage since it was not locked up as required . . . therefore, no claims payment.

It's all BS, but I don't want to test this out. I've had a few dealings with insurance companies over the years . . . enough to prove that they are frequently dishonest in handling claims.
 
That's odd. I store mine ikn a locked cabinet not too too far from the toluolene, thin-x, mineral spirits, paint, pesticides, etc. So, if I take out that 1% of flammables, and put on the same shelf, it is somehow worse from the insurance company perspective?

Leave it to MA.
 
Better read those CMRs, must be NLT x feet (I think it's 10, but not certain) from any other flammables or sources of ignition.
 
One example of insurance company carrier: A former co-worker had severe fire damage to his house, and had to move out during reconsturction. The adjustor asked how the rebuild was going, and he mentioned the contractor was waiting for one of the subs to come back and finish a section of work before the next sub could proceed. He recieved a letter shortly thereafter stating that his temporary living expenses were terminated since "construction had been stopped" and would be resumed one he demonstrated contruction had resumed.
 
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