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In Support of Massachusetts Gun Laws

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I don't even know where to start with this one.


http://media.www.umassmedia.com/med...nd.The.Right.To.Carry.On.Campus-3513676.shtml

In Support of Massachusetts Gun Laws and The Right To Carry On Campus

John Kane III
Issue date: 10/27/08 Section: Opinion

The pro-gun lobby is very anti-Obama because, according to an NRA (National Rifle Association) publication, Obama wants to ban the sale of almost all hunting ammunition, prosecute people who use guns for self-defense in their own homes, and wants to increase the tax on guns and ammunition by 500%. Among other things. What people seem to be conveniently forgetting is that the President cannot propose legislation, so the gun lobby may be better off with Obama as President rather than as a Senator, so he can't create legislation against firearms.

But I'm not here to write about Obama and the gun lobby, but Massachusetts gun laws. I believe that the laws in MA are fine as they are and that most people should be aware of them. I also believe more people should be licensed to carry a firearm.

Out of an informal poll of people I know, no one knew that MA is a concealed carry state. The law states that if you are licensed to carry, you must carry concealed. You'd be surprised at the number of people you walk past each day who are carrying a gun with out you even knowing. The licensing structure in Mass has three levels: FID card (Firearms Identification Card) License to Carry Class B and License to Carry Class A. In order to receive a license to carry in MA you must be 21 years of age or over, take a State Police approve pistol safety course, fill out an application, get two letters of recommendation, and write a letter stating your need for a license to carry. The police will take your fingerprints when you turn your application in and send them to the State Police for approval from the Colonel and a CORI check.

Also, if you live in the Boston area, you may be required to go to the State Police firing range and prove your competency on the range with a gun provided at the range by an officer. You may also be required to be a member of a gun club. Membership at a club can cost around $150, and the course costs around $100. All that plus the $100 dollar fee paid when you turn in the application can make it a little expensive. But most of the communities in MA either will issue or may issue, which means they will either give you your license if you meet all the requirements or they may issue a restricted license if you meet all the requirements.

All that seems complicated, but its not. What the different licenses boils down to is that an FID card lets you own a rifle and fire it on private property, at a range, or while hunting. A Class B license allows you to own pistols with capacity of 5 rounds or less but you cannot carry them concealed, except I believe on the way to the range, and you cannot draw it to protect yourself. A Class A allows you to own high capacity firearms and clips (high capacity is defined by the state as holding 10 or more rounds) and allows you to carry a pistol concealed and draw and use it in defense of yourself or family if your life is threatened.

Interesting fact: there is no limit to the number of firearms you can carry concealed, as long as they are concealed. Police can stop you if the outline of a firearm is visible in your clothes (this is known as the gun imprinting).

The gun laws in MA are pretty fair, as long as you don't have a violent criminal record, haven't been in a mental institution, and you can pay for everything, you'll most likely get your license.

There are places where you are prohibited from carrying by federal law. Mainly, this is Federal property such as Post Offices and government buildings, but one place you cannot carry no matter what is on school property. This includes public schools, private schools, and college campuses. The big one here is college campuses. The Virginia Tech shooting is still fresh in some people's minds and might have seen fewer fatalities if other students, who had been licensed as per local law, were carrying that day. They could have possibly stopped the shooter before he did as much damage as he did.

There is a growing movement lobby for the right to carry firearms on college campuses and, personally, I feel that lumping colleges in with K-12 schools in the law needs to be re-examined. Many colleges allow drinking on campus and have bars. If they feel that students are responsible enough to drink on campus, then why don't they allow students that the police feel are responsible enough to carry guns to do so on campus? Banning guns from college campus does not stop shootings, as people determined to do so are going to go ahead regardless of what the law says. So if we allow students to carry to class (if they are licensed to do so; I want to reiterate that I'm a fan of requiring licenses to keep people who have violent criminal records or are mentally unstable from obtaining firearms, legally at least) perhaps the next college shooting, if it can't be averted by the police, can be stopped by someone before it go too far.
Click to expand...
 
got a link/source for that? I want to write a little note breaking down some of the complete misinformation that cockbag is spewing.
 
If scriv ever saw that writeup he'd probably pop a few veins. [laugh]

-Mike
 
The best part is the shit frosting on the turd cake- which is the image on that page showing a Beretta with the safety lever down but the hammer cocked back, and the trigger forward. WTF? The article is about as "fuxorented" as that handgun is.


-Mike
 
Don't rip him too hard, his heart is sorta in the right place. He thinks:

More people in MA should be gun owners
College students should have the right to carry


The rest is pure turd in the punchbowl but at least the idea is right.
 
well hes for carry on campus, which surprised me after reading that disastrous excuse for an article.

The misinformation that is out there is amazing.
 
Anyone want to post a comment calling out at least a few of the MAJOR flaws? I'd hate to have that article spread too far...even if it is an attempt at pro-2A.
 
It is definitely illinformed. Like the fact he left out the discretionary licensing practices and how an LTC A can be restricted by our lovely licensing authorities.
 
I see the flaws, but since hes pushing for rights and common sense, two mutually allusive terms in MA, I think this kid deserves a pass.

Most of the stuff he wrote is probably the same stuff that MOST people not versed with the myriad of gun laws in this state think. Ask your licensing officer if he knows the difference between concealed, concealed carry, and open carry on private property or the limits of loaded firearms for castle doctrine. There is no easy answer and despite the flaws the author does lay out a reasonable course of the actions required for licensees. The push for school carry is the icing on the cake though.
 
drumenigma said:
It is definitely illinformed. Like the fact he left out the discretionary licensing practices and how an LTC A can be restricted by our lovely licensing authorities.
Click to expand...

Thats a good thing, because when Sally Soccer Mom or Joe Six pack go down to the Police station to get a LTC and wind up denied or getting a neutered license, perhaps they will join us in the outcry.
 
clinotus said:
I see the flaws, but since hes pushing for rights and common sense, two mutually allusive terms in MA, I think this kid deserves a pass.
Click to expand...

With that reasoning, I cannot argue. And about people joining the outcry because of at last hearing the real restrictions, again, spot on.

My lateral thinking circuit must be misfiring today.
 
clinotus said:
I see the flaws, but since hes pushing for rights and common sense, two mutually allusive terms in MA, I think this kid deserves a pass.

Most of the stuff he wrote is probably the same stuff that MOST people not versed with the myriad of gun laws in this state think. Ask your licensing officer if he knows the difference between concealed, concealed carry, and open carry on private property or the limits of loaded firearms for castle doctrine. There is no easy answer and despite the flaws the author does lay out a reasonable course of the actions required for licensees. The push for school carry is the icing on the cake though.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know if rights and common sense are "mutually allusive". Hell, I don't even know what "allusive" means in this context, although I take it, indirectly, that you are alluding to "mutually exclusive" things.

Having said that, it sounds like the writer, entirely ignorant of his topic, attempted to do some research. It sounds like he interviewed a cop and a guy at a gun store, took notes, and went home to type his story on his computer. We can be thankful for spell-check technology, or it might have been worse.

I agree that we should not be too hard on him. Just smack him hard enough to let him know how and why he screwed up so badly.
 
I support his views but he is definitely mis-informed about a lot of things. That needs to change. Someone like this I wouldn't rip their head off for writing it since its pro-carry but respectfully set the record straight. If it was anti carry then I would be pissed especially if they were trying to say its easy to obtain a license and gun.

I get a kick out of the people that i hear say its easier for someone to get a gun than a drivers license.
 
exploding-head.gif
 
im no expert at all when it comes to any sort of law, but i did tell him about some mistakes or misinformation he might have in his article. i messaged him directly on facebook, since there was no email provided on his article there.

like i told him in the message, we need as many people as possible to support the 2nd amendment. when we can get more people my age to get into it we will start to turn the tide against the massive amounts of ignorance that surrounds firearms/fire arm law.
 
Okay, I'm bored. Let's give this a go.

In Support of Massachusetts Gun Laws and The Right To Carry On Campus John Kane III Issue date: 10/27/08 Section: Opinion The pro-gun lobby is very anti-Obama because, according to an NRA (National Rifle Association) publication, Obama wants to ban the sale of almost all hunting ammunition, prosecute people who use guns for self-defense in their own homes, and wants to increase the tax on guns and ammunition by 500%. Among other things. What people seem to be conveniently forgetting is that the President cannot propose legislation, so the gun lobby may be better off with Obama as President rather than as a Senator, so he can't create legislation against firearms.
Click to expand...

Strike 1, ever hear of an executive order? veto? proposal? A president has multitudes more influence than 1/100 senators or 1/535 reps.

But I'm not here to write about Obama and the gun lobby, but Massachusetts gun laws. I believe that the laws in MA are fine as they are and that most people should be aware of them.
Click to expand...

I wanna give a strike so bad, but it's an opinion. Though I will give you a point about the need to be more aware about gun laws, yourself included. Anyone who knows anything knows that MA gun laws are not fine. Well maybe if you lived in CA, NJ, NYC, Chicago, DC, etc...

I also believe more people should be licensed to carry a firearm.
Click to expand...

Got your heart in the right place, work on your head.

Out of an informal poll of people I know,
Click to expand...

Very professional. Cold, hard facts right there.

no one knew that MA is a concealed carry state. The law states that if you are licensed to carry, you must carry concealed.
Click to expand...

Strike 2, no such law stating that you must carry concealed and no law stating that CC is illegal.

You'd be surprised at the number of people you walk past each day who are carrying a gun with out you even knowing. The licensing structure in Mass has three levels: FID card (Firearms Identification Card) License to Carry Class B and License to Carry Class A. In order to receive a license to carry in MA you must be 21 years of age or over, take a State Police approve pistol safety course, fill out an application, get two letters of recommendation, and write a letter stating your need for a license to carry. The police will take your fingerprints when you turn your application in and send them to the State Police for approval from the Colonel and a CORI check.
Click to expand...

No. 3, Individual agencies may require extra things such as letters of recommendation, but they are not the minimums required by the state. Also, I'm pretty damn sure the approval is by the COP and the SP "colonel" has nothing to do with it.

Also, if you live in the Boston area, you may be required to go to the State Police firing range and prove your competency on the range with a gun provided at the range by an officer. You may also be required to be a member of a gun club. Membership at a club can cost around $150, and the course costs around $100. All that plus the $100 dollar fee paid when you turn in the application can make it a little expensive. But most of the communities in MA either will issue or may issue, which means they will either give you your license if you meet all the requirements or they may issue a restricted license if you meet all the requirements.
Click to expand...

XXXX, MA in it's entirety is a may issue state, there is no will (shall) issue requirement except for FID.

All that seems complicated, but its not. What the different licenses boils down to is that an FID card lets you own a rifle and fire it on private property, at a range, or while hunting. A Class B license allows you to own pistols with capacity of 5 rounds or less but you cannot carry them concealed
Click to expand...

Lucky 5, 5 rounds is for rifles, not for handguns. You state that MA considers Hi-cap (which they only do as an extension of the fed AWB) as 10rds for handguns further down, but then you state its 5 here...

except I believe on the way to the range, and you cannot draw it to protect yourself.
Click to expand...

6&7 all in one go.

A Class A allows you to own high capacity firearms and clips[\b] (high capacity is defined by the state as holding 10 or more rounds) and allows you to carry a pistol concealed and draw and use it in defense of yourself or family if your life is threatened.
Click to expand...


Clip, ugh. And your family is covered under 3rd party defense rule, so you can technically use deadly force to defend anyone, not just family exclusively. 8.

Interesting fact: there is no limit to the number of firearms you can carry concealed, as long as they are concealed. Police can stop you if the outline of a firearm is visible in your clothes (this is known as the gun imprinting).
Click to expand...

Imprinting, really? Someone's been hanging around the back of the gun store too much listening to the grown ups talk. And technically a 'man with a gun' call is not grounds for a Terry Stop, though it will happen. We're on 10.

The gun laws in MA are pretty fair, as long as you don't have a violent criminal record, haven't been in a mental institution, and you can pay for everything, you'll most likely get your license.
Click to expand...

There are several other things. I would state violent felon over criminal though, and I cannot agree with your assesment of MA laws being "fair"

There are places where you are prohibited from carrying by federal law. Mainly, this is Federal property such as Post Offices and government buildings, but one place you cannot carry no matter what is on school property. This includes public schools, private schools, and college campuses. The big one here is college campuses.
Click to expand...

Post office huh. What if I'm on "official business"? No matter what for colleges too. Even if I get approval from the dean or head of campus security? I think we're on a dozen.

The Virginia Tech shooting is still fresh in some people's minds and might have seen fewer fatalities if other students, who had been licensed as per local law, were carrying that day. They could have possibly stopped the shooter before he did as much damage as he did. There is a growing movement lobby for the right to carry firearms on college campuses and, personally, I feel that lumping colleges in with K-12 schools in the law needs to be re-examined. Many colleges allow drinking on campus and have bars. If they feel that students are responsible enough to drink on campus, then why don't they allow students that the police feel are responsible enough to carry guns to do so on campus? Banning guns from college campus does not stop shootings, as people determined to do so are going to go ahead regardless of what the law says. So if we allow students to carry to class (if they are licensed to do so; I want to reiterate that I'm a fan of requiring licenses to keep people who have violent criminal records or are mentally unstable from obtaining firearms, legally at least) perhaps the next college shooting, if it can't be averted by the police, can be stopped by someone before it go too far.
Click to expand...

Your heart is in the right place, you just need to educate yourself more and stop assuming what you heard at the range or gun store is true. Also, there is no such thing as a reasonable restriction. If these violent and mentally unstable persons can obtain guns illegally, what is it worth restricting and licensing the good guys. Well, I guess the state sees it as revenue. I'm more in favor of a VT style legislature. Someone should invite the kid here so he can get his facts straight. I only did this because I was bored [wink]
 
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Nice to see control of the facts when reporting. Surprised he didn't mention the fully automatic 38 caliber revolvers with cop killing bullets.[grin]
 
gene said:
Nice to see control of the facts when reporting. Surprised he didn't mention the fully automatic 38 caliber revolvers with cop killing bullets.[grin]
Click to expand...

See I do not read this as a anti 2nd...I see this as a young poorly informed college student in a very liberal college swimming against the strong current....I did not grow up in a gun owning home and my mom thought guns were bad...still does...went to school with that mind set.
I think we have a kid with a rational that it is not guns but it is the people that commit crimes that are bad. With a little bit of experience and information, I feel he can be put on the right track...hopefully he takes the invite
 
Chris said:
My god...

If I had a dollar for every error in that piece, I'd be able to fill the truck with gas.

Then again, it's just more proof that the average person can't understand the gun laws as they stand and it MUST be corrected.
Click to expand...

Of course that average person is a student at a well respected university and STILL got most of his facts wrong.

Not sure whether that speaks more to the student, the school or the law, at least one of those three are seriously messed up.
 
The kid has got the right idea but totally misses on how licensing,registration and all gun control is a infringement on our rights. All in all he has probably got a totally gross misunderstanding about what the constitution really means.
 

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