In Mass, don't protect your property....

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"Lynnfield based criminal defense attorney Richard Chambers has agreed to represent McKay pro-bono."


Good on him!
 

Prepper

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I never understood the "can't defend property" law. How am I supposed to read the mind of the thief and know that he is "only" going to peacefully take my property and walk away? By expressing his intent to steal from me, he has already proven himself to be an immoral person. So, I have no reason to believe his immorality only stops at theft and does not continue on to physical violence.

And, if I did know (again, that is unknowable) that he wasn't actually going to harm me, then why would I let him walk away with the property if he's harmless? I'll hold onto it, which should be a perfectly safe thing to do since, after all, he's not going to initiate violence against me, right? That would force the thief to make a decision... walk away without my stuff, or attack. Attacks warrant self-defense.
 

Boris

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in this backward state criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens because .gov breeds the culture of total nanny state dependence. People who can take care of themselves don't need bloated bureaucracies at an insane cost.
 

Reptile

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The perp grabs a baton and the homeowner hits him. Now the homeowner is up for assault?
 

calsdad

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I never understood the "can't defend property" law. How am I supposed to read the mind of the thief and know that he is "only" going to peacefully take my property and walk away? By expressing his intent to steal from me, he has already proven himself to be an immoral person. So, I have no reason to believe his immorality only stops at theft and does not continue on to physical violence.

And, if I did know (again, that is unknowable) that he wasn't actually going to harm me, then why would I let him walk away with the property if he's harmless? I'll hold onto it, which should be a perfectly safe thing to do since, after all, he's not going to initiate violence against me, right? That would force the thief to make a decision... walk away without my stuff, or attack. Attacks warrant self-defense.

This is why you LIE.

If you are confronted with a situation like this you should make one first assumption: that the person perpetrating the offense against you has most likely done it before and has a record.

From that point on - you do whatever it takes to protect yourself and your property - ANYTHING.

Both the criminal and the criminal justice system and the state in which you reside and any of it's official representatives are NOT there to protect you. In most cases - especially in this state - they will in all likelihood defend the criminal over you.

Therefore - your first course of action should be to establish the worst possible circumstances for the person who has just transgressed against you.

If that means you LIE and make up a story about how he threatened to kill you, if it means you knock yourself over the head with a rock and cause an injury to yourself so that you have a reasonable excuse to beat the living crap out of the criminal - you do it.

I would like somebody to tell me I'm wrong about this - but 47 years of living in this state and watching carefully how things work has taught me otherwise.
 
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joeendris

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This is why you LIE.

If you are confronted with a situation like this you should make one first assumption: that the person perpetrating the offense against you has most likely done it before and has a record.

From that point on - you do whatever it takes to protect yourself and your property - ANYTHING.

Both the criminal and the criminal justice system and the state in which you reside and any of it's official representatives are NOT there to protect you. In most cases - especially in this state - they will in all likelihood defend the criminal over you.

Therefore - your first course of action should be to establish the worst possible circumstances for the person who has just transgressed against you.

If that means you LIE and make up a story about how he threatened to kill you, if it means you knock yourself over the head with a rock and cause an injury to yourself so that you have a reasonable excuse to beat the living crap out of the criminal - you do it.

I would like somebody to tell me I'm wrong about this - but 47 years of living in this state and watching carefully how things work has taught me otherwise.
Swampscott Chief Ronald J. Madigan states the following:

http://www.swampscottpolice.com/Mission Statement.html

"...The Swampscott Police Department is a community-oriented police department, committed to providing professional service to all with fairness, compassion and respect, regardless of religion, age, race, color, creed, nationality or lifestyle. Working in concert with the community we endeavor to prevent crime, protect life and property and preserve the peace, order and safety in Swampscott. We nurture public trust by holding ourselves to the highest standards of performance and ethics...."

But the Chief says he's there to help you, I don't understand [sad]
/sarcasm

Maybe it was the comment about public trust that gave it away. Whaddya think? [wink]
 

joeendris

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in this backward state criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens because .gov breeds the culture of total nanny state dependence. People who can take care of themselves don't need bloated bureaucracies at an insane cost.
Which is why this poor sod is going to probably get jail time. So Mother Coakley can "teach us a lesson"
 

dustoff22

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That situation should have ended when the cops arrived, picked up the perp with the broken jaw, and congratulated the home owner for doing a good job. The bad guy instead becomes the victim. Utter political correct bullshit.
 

calsdad

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Swampscott Chief Ronald J. Madigan states the following:

http://www.swampscottpolice.com/Mission Statement.html

"...The Swampscott Police Department is a community-oriented police department, committed to providing professional service to all with fairness, compassion and respect, regardless of religion, age, race, color, creed, nationality or lifestyle. Working in concert with the community we endeavor to prevent crime, protect life and property and preserve the peace, order and safety in Swampscott. We nurture public trust by holding ourselves to the highest standards of performance and ethics...."

But the Chief says he's there to help you, I don't understand [sad]
/sarcasm

Maybe it was the comment about public trust that gave it away. Whaddya think? [wink]
When the authorities lie - an awful lot of people take a look around them, put their finger in the air to judge which way the wind is blowing - and decide that lying is being endorsed.

It's the same sort of effect that happened when people found out undeniably that the Catholic church had protected and prolonged the practice of allowing it's employees to stick things up little boy's bums.

Sort of hard to claim moral supremacy after that.

Sort of hard for the Swamptwat police to claim (with a straight face) - when they are now protecting crime and not preventing it.

When you are stuck in a situation like this, stuck in a societial structure like this - you can do one of two things. You can either protect yourself - and LIE, or you can decide to be a moral person - and get screwed.
 
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Finalygotabeltfed

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Shit like this is where the cop/cops should have to pay out of their own pocket for such incompetent decision making.
 

calsdad

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Shit like this is where the cop/cops should have to pay out of their own pocket for such incompetent decision making.

Once you fully understand deep down inside, that what you are saying is never going to happen - you will have full comprehension of how deeply corrupted our government and society is, and you will understand that we do not have the liberty that everybody goes around claiming we have.
 
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Finalygotabeltfed

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Once you fully understand deep down inside, that what you are saying is never going to happen - you will have full comprehension of how deeply corrupted our government and society is, and you will understand that we do not have the liberty that everybody goes around claiming we have.
Believe me, I understand it to my core.
 

chiefsaj

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I just saw it on the news again, complete BS. This shit is beyond getting old, huge understatement.

He's holding a fundraiser, i plan on contributing. It looks like Support Anthony Mckay on facebook, I'm not a facebook guy but I'm looking into it. If I can find a link, I'll post it.
 
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Finalygotabeltfed

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I don't think there are a lot of people who really do though.
True, most of the ones who do have already moved out of MA, wish they could, or are doing so in the near future, me included. A few more months to go here.
 

DMW

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This is a serious question: What exactly is the correct legal response in situations where time is of the essence and the police cannot be reached when: 1) someone is threatening to attack you, 2) someone has attacked you, 3) someone is stealing your property in a public place (theft from your car or person), 4) someone is stealing from you within your home or on your property?
 

timbo

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This is a serious question: What exactly is the correct legal response in situations where time is of the essence and the police cannot be reached when: 1) someone is threatening to attack you, 2) someone has attacked you, 3) someone is stealing your property in a public place (theft from your car or person), 4) someone is stealing from you within your home or on your property?
It seems it is up to the whims of the LEO's or the DA within your district...it's obvious there are no clear cut rules when it comes to rules of defense in life and property in Ma**h***chewetts...
 

GM-GUY

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"I was in fear of my life" should always be the first statement you make. If you decide to dress up the fear with a verbal threat made against you, or a reach for a possible weapon, or a lunge at you - that's on you.

In response to the questions:
1) Some one is threatening to attack you from 50 ft away - clear the area, call a cop; from 5ft, see my first statement.
2) If leaving - call a cop; if still their, see my first statement. Also have your BG radar checked.
3) Call a cop, unless you find yourself pinned in an area where statement 1 works.
4) Statement 1 - ALWAYS. Someone in your home may be accompanied, may be scouting an abduction, may be on a repeat offender and doesn't want to go back to the can.
 

Maxpower

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This is a serious question: What exactly is the correct legal response in situations where time is of the essence and the police cannot be reached when: 1) someone is threatening to attack you, 2) someone has attacked you, 3) someone is stealing your property in a public place (theft from your car or person), 4) someone is stealing from you within your home or on your property?
Seems like in MA it's either run, or hope your peers see it your way. [frown]
 

terraformer

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FYI: There is a fundraiser tonight in Salem at the Elks lodge there for this guy. Even though his attorney is doing this pro-bono he is looking to try and pay him back some significant part of this, especially if it goes to trial.
 

Horrible

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in this backward state criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens because .gov breeds the culture of total nanny state dependence. People who can take care of themselves don't need bloated bureaucracies at an insane cost.
THIS! Not much else needs to be said.
 

calsdad

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This is a serious question: What exactly is the correct legal response in situations where time is of the essence and the police cannot be reached when: 1) someone is threatening to attack you, 2) someone has attacked you, 3) someone is stealing your property in a public place (theft from your car or person), 4) someone is stealing from you within your home or on your property?
Bend over and pull your pants down.
 
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This is a serious question: What exactly is the correct legal response in situations where time is of the essence and the police cannot be reached when: 1) someone is threatening to attack you, 2) someone has attacked you, 3) someone is stealing your property in a public place (theft from your car or person), 4) someone is stealing from you within your home or on your property?
You want clear cut answers but it's hard to say with so many variables. I am not a lawyer, nor play one on TV. What have I learned in my 35 years on God's green Earth, most of the times spent in PRM is this;

when police arrive, "We are happy to cooperate, but we will only answer questions when our lawyer is present."
 
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In most places the thief would run away, thankful that he wasn't more seriously hurt or arrested particularly if carrying illegal drugs and weapons. Here, he calls the police for help knowing that he will be protected, exonerated, and coddled by the prosecution.

Martha must be very proud.
 

Maxpower

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I try to justify my reasons for living in this state, but reading articles like this make me sick to my stomach.
 
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