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Improving pistol shot groups

5

50565

Looking for some tips on tightening up my shot groups with a pistol, especially out at 25-50ft. At 50ft i really start to lose it and am all over the paper. i want to be able to key hole shots not necessarily at 50ft but something at a reasonable distance. Any advice would help. Thank you everyone in advance.

Shooting a Glock 19 with trijicon night sights.
 
Practice your trigger pull when you can. If you watch TV in the evening, do some dry firing to get the muscle memory working. Also, put a coin on top of the slide and do the same. Fairly easy on a Glock with it's squared slide, but just focus on keeping it still through the break.
 
SamWB said:
Practice your trigger pull when you can. If you watch TV in the evening, do some dry firing to get the muscle memory working. Also, put a coin on top of the slide and do the same. Fairly easy on a Glock with it's squared slide, but just focus on keeping it still through the break.
Click to expand...

^this. good advice

or just get a 1911
 
Take a class with Stu at Cloverleaf Firearms Group. Normally I am anti class because I know everything, but Ive since found out I actually dont. He fixed me and many others. Money well spent.
 
Take a one gallon plastic water jug and leave the top sealed.

When watching TV, put your middle, ring and little finger in the handle and your trigger finger around the top. Lift, hold at normal pistol level and put some pressure on the trigger finger. Hold it till you start to shake and take a rest. Repeat as much as you can. This builds all the muscles you will need and causes no wear on your gun.
 
GPP said:
Take a class with Stu at Cloverleaf Firearms Group. Normally I am anti class because I know everything, but Ive since found out I actually dont. He fixed me and many others. Money well spent.
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Or get together with someone who has been shooting competition for a long time and knows what they are doing. I have taken a few shooters under my wing and helped them improve.

Where are you located?
 
SamWB said:
Practice your trigger pull when you can. If you watch TV in the evening, do some dry firing to get the muscle memory working. Also, put a coin on top of the slide and do the same. Fairly easy on a Glock with it's squared slide, but just focus on keeping it still through the break.
Click to expand...

Kind of like what our Drills had us do in Basic, stick a rod/dowel down the barrel of the M16 and balance a penny on it while prone. Twenty times in a row without it falling and you were able to get up, if it dropped at 19 you went back to zero. We spent probably a good hour or so scrubbing away the stains left by our elbows from the company AO under the bays. [laugh]
 
ball and dummy drill. It's easier with 2 people but you can do it alone. Dry fire practice is good to build muscle memory but it won't help with flinch because you won't flinch when you know the gun is empty. Only my daughter does that.
 
GPP said:
Take a class with Stu at Cloverleaf Firearms Group. Normally I am anti class because I know everything, but Ive since found out I actually dont. He fixed me and many others. Money well spent.
Click to expand...


This
Practice is only good when you are practicing correctly. Getting an instructor to show you that will prevent you from developing bad techniques
 
Don't overlook breathing either.
Consistent hold on the gun and keep the same amount of finger on the trigger.
It's about repeatable results.
Practice your trigger squeeze without moving the rest of your hand.
It's always a help when you have someone else observing what your doing.
They will pick up things you don't even notice your doing.
 
GPP said:
Take a class with Stu at Cloverleaf Firearms Group. Money well spent.
Click to expand...

Another vote for this.

When Stu was first getting his instruction business going, I emailed him about private lessons. He asked me what I wanted to work on and I emailed him back saying I wanted help with the same exact thing that you posted (except I brought a G17 & G26 with me). He delivered.

People can tell you what you need to do, but having an experienced instructor closely watching you while you shoot and immediately making the necessary corrections makes a huge difference. Slow motion video analysis on the spot was awesome. I still watch the videos he took of my lesson.
 
After you do the above stuff....

Have someone film you. I bet you'll fix 80% or more of your problems. It was an eye opening experience for me. Can't say "I'm not doing x or Y" when you see it plain as day. Subtle stuff like grip will need a trained eye to see up close.

edit after rereading OP:

How are you shooting? From the holster and it opens up at 15 yards? Or are you just lifting the pistol and shooting a string?
 
Front sight. Front sight. Front sight. Everybody says front sight but it is very hard to do in practice. Your brain desperately wants to focus on the target. Most people who have accuracy problems THINK they are focused on the front sight, but they are actually shifting their focus rapidly between the target and the front sight. You have to make your eye focus on the front sight, and the front sight only, until the trigger breaks. Then you should be able to call your shots, and adjust your technique as necessary.

Dry fire while concentrating on pulling the trigger straight back, with no pressure on either side of the trigger. Front sight should not bounce in either direction when the trigger breaks. Assuming you are right handed, if the front sight snaps to the right on the break, insert your trigger finger further into the trigger guard. If it snaps to the left, pull your finger out of the trigger guard a little more until it stops. Everybody has a different "best" finger position on the trigger. Some use just the pad, some use the first joint, and everything in between. You have to figure out what your best placement is and then practice with that position until it is natural.
 
GPP said:
Take a class with Stu at Cloverleaf Firearms Group. Normally I am anti class because I know everything, but Ive since found out I actually dont. He fixed me and many others. Money well spent.
Click to expand...
Yet another vote for this option. Time and money very well spent and you'll leave knowing what correct things to practice.
 
I'm far from a great pistol shooter but a few specific things that helped me....

1. While in the house, practice a FIRM grip while focusing your front sight on a target as far away or as small as possible. Not just dry firing, but the firm grip helps stay on target.

2. I found that acknowledging to give my knees and elbows a slight bend helped my stance more than just assuming my stance was correct.

3. Set up a camera. If you have an iPhone 5+ the slow motion feature is great.

4. If you have a revolver, leave one round out, or randomly put a snap cap in your mag. By not knowing when you'll dry fire, you'll become aware of any flinching. When I did this I realized my toes would ever so slightly curl in anticipation. I don't think even an instructor would have noticed this.
 
Thanks for all the info i really appreciate it.

Let me put this out there as well. When shooting, do you put the front sight post dot over what you want to hit, or are you cutting it in half?

One issue i have as well is the front sight post ends up covering my target area completly and dont know where my shot group is.
 
Chrisw15000 said:
Thanks for all the info i really appreciate it.

Let me put this out there as well. When shooting, do you put the front sight post dot over what you want to hit, or are you cutting it in half?

One issue i have as well is the front sight post ends up covering my target area completly and dont know where my shot group is.
Click to expand...

Depends on how your sights are set up as far as point-of-aim/point-of-impact. I balance the bullseye on top of my front sight on most of my pistols. If I try to cut the bull in half, I shoot high.
 
Try shooting at the center of a blank piece of paper. The bullseye is distracting you. Like everyone else said, you want to focus on (FOCUS, not look at) the front sight. Whether you realize it or not, your eye is going back and forth between the sight and the target.

What gun are you shooting? Some sights are set up to cover the target, some at 6 o'clock, some at center. Honestly if you're trying to improve your groups it doesn't matter if your gun is set up to cover the target but you hold at 6 o'clock. As long as you have nice groups consistently above or below the bull then you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. Once that's figured out, adjust your sight picture to match how the sights are set up and you should be on.
 
I found that 90% or more of my problems had to do with trigger pull. I started using a sandbag and shooting. It might seem like cheating, but if really helps you control the trigger.
 
How did we get this far without a mention of snap caps? Load them randomly mixed in with live rounds on your next range trip. Consistent trigger pull is your friend. I know a lot of guys say dry fire is useful but I don't flinch with dry fire so snap caps are of more help with my "inaccuracy problems".

Training is helpful to get you past the humps in your learning. In other words, if you have exhausted all other methods and plateaued then training is a good choice. If you seek training, choose a reputable trainer who does it full time NOT some guy at the commercial range who just happens to give classes but really just works for the range full time.
 
bigblue said:
In other words, if you have exhausted all other methods and plateaued then training is a good choice. If you seek training, choose a reputable trainer who does it full time NOT some guy at the commercial range who just happens to give classes but really just works for the range full time.
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I would definitely get training before you exhausted all methods and plateaued. What if your plateau is caused by training incorrectly? Now you have training ruts that are going to take more time and money to fix. Best bet is to learn to shoot correctly the first time. I also wouldn't worry about whether the guy works at the range or not. I have seen guys that their only job is to train and they suck. The reality is there is very few good shooters and even fewer good trainers.
 
OP. You got a lot of good advice in this thread... I'll say that one of the issues that I see in training people is compound shooting problems. A good instructor definitely helps in sorting them out in the correct order. I'm honored by the recommendations here. Obviously, I'm not successful unless clients are. [grin]

I am also a fan of Jon Greene from GOAL, or Seth Wish {on target training NH} Any training you take from them will be worth it. I plan on training with both.
 
Cloverleaf Firearms Group said:
OP. You got a lot of good advice in this thread... I'll say that one of the issues that I see in training people is compound shooting problems. A good instructor definitely helps in sorting them out in the correct order. I'm honored by the recommendations here. Obviously, I'm not successful unless clients are. [grin]

I am also a fan of Jon Greene from GOAL, or Seth Wish {on target training NH} Any training you take from them will be worth it. I plan on training with both.
Click to expand...

That's really cool to see an instructor not be a "know it all", and seek additional training too. That speaks volumes about your character and I truly hope we can meet at some point, and I can take a class with you.

This is a great thread!
 
GPP said:
Take a class with Stu at Cloverleaf Firearms Group. Normally I am anti class because I know everything, but Ive since found out I actually dont. He fixed me and many others. Money well spent.
Click to expand...

ipscdrl said:
Or get together with someone who has been shooting competition for a long time and knows what they are doing. I have taken a few shooters under my wing and helped them improve.

Where are you located?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Definitely check out experienced competition shooters. I'm new to the sport myself... just shot my first match.

Screenshot_2015-06-16-12-31-29.jpg
 
Cloverleaf Firearms Group said:
Yeah. Definitely check out experienced competition shooters. I'm new to the sport myself... just shot my first match.

View attachment 139709
Click to expand...

582.gif
 
GPP said:
Take a class with Stu at Cloverleaf Firearms Group. Normally I am anti class because I know everything, but Ive since found out I actually dont. He fixed me and many others. Money well spent.
Click to expand...

I quadruple this. My class was a carbine course but same difference. Stu is the man and a great instructor.
 

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