Mr. Brownstone
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Improper storage charge....in a car?
- Thread starter DPR
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I'd love to see someone drive around with a pump action shotgun in the good ol' pickup widow rack. Care to give that a try and let us know how that works out? Because of course non-large cap does not need to be locked up. Right?
If I'm talking to a LTC holder asking for advice I'd say that in a vehicle a loaded handgun should be on your person and any guns not on your person should be unloaded and locked in the trunk or a locked container. Done. Good to go.
This is the way to keep out of trouble. This ends any lengthy debates on direct control and storage vs. transportation. Because...we all know 99% of cops will be far too ignorant to even begin to understand what a non-large capacity firearm is or if there is a difference between storage and transport. Take the argument out of it and avoid any unnecessary arrest and BS charges like we see in the op.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
Which is why I said “mass prudence says to store unloaded.”
When I teach people about storage and transport, I encourage them to “over comply” due to mass prudence. But that it isn’t the actual law.
I still think it is more of a risk unloading/reloading
every time one has to disarm when exiting a vehicle than it is to lock up a loaded handgun.
Son, this is Massachusetts; the self fancying 'nobles' populating the commonwealth's legislature, judiciary, and administrative state are a bigger threat to liberty than old King George ever was.
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Sure, but until that mythical day happens I prefer that everyone play by the same rule book.
I've posed that question to others more in the know than I and they said it's such a gray area they wouldn't feel comfortable giving me an opinion one way or the other. Mostly because some overzealous types would happily throw a bevy of charges at someone just to see what sticks enabling the self-congratulatory circle jerk proving "they did something" against potential gun violence.
Whether or not there's any validity to that I don't know, but Massachusetts being Massachusetts, I err on the side of caution and lock sh*t up.
IANAL, but my plain English reading of the hunting law on loaded long guns implies to me that a loaded mag and unloaded long gun ==a loaded long gun per that law. C. 131, don't recall Section off the top of my head.
Totally agree.
Yes, all cars have them. As long as you can't get to that trunk space from WITHIN the car without using a key, it's a locked trunk. The fact that if you drive down the street, pop the trunk release and someone outside can get the gun is a totally different issue.
Amen brother, amen!
S. 131C refers to transportation.
S. 131L refers to Storage! (when you are out of the car)
That said, I've read about someone getting jacked up for storing guns in his car within the locked garage on the basis that since the car has round wheels, it can be considered "transportation" even when garaged. Yes, you can convince a jury or a marsupial judge of this in Mass.
S. 131L refers to Storage! (when you are out of the car)
That said, I've read about someone getting jacked up for storing guns in his car within the locked garage on the basis that since the car has round wheels, it can be considered "transportation" even when garaged. Yes, you can convince a jury or a marsupial judge of this in Mass.
I have a bad feeling you will be explaining to a class of students one day that they should not use a gun safe with wheels in MA, "because some DA convinced a jury that because the safe had wheels it was considered 'transportation' ". It will likely be followed by a story of why combination locks (and thus 99% of large safes) aren't considered locks by court precedent because they do not require a mechanical key.
If compliant "safe storage" is made impossible by such quackery by the courts it turns into an effective back down ownership ban. Activist DAs and judges are already chipping away at this.
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BTSDOG
NES Member
Ok, to clarify, if i store my sig p938 in my vehicle safe, do i need to unload it and store the magazine and ammo in a seperate locked container ? I thought the laws here pertained to transporting in a vehicle....
DPR
NES Member
No.
mothybee
NES Member
A-men brother! A-men!
Sadly, your scenario is a distinct possibility in Mass. Activist judges/DAs really do invent "law" where no such thing exists (like our AG also) and push their political agenda unless there are expert witnesses who can convince a judge/jury otherwise by reasoned replies refuting the BS. The case I got involved in was a real eye-opener to me as to how far a DA will go to throw the book at someone with NON-EXISTENT laws.
The more you handle a loaded gun especially in a car, the more opportunity for a ND. It is a lot safer not to unload. However, we really don't have a definitive court ruling that allows this, so Mass-prudence dictates that we unload.
No law requires a separate container for ammo/mags. However see my first response above. DAs can make up law and unless someone has the money and foresight to get an expert witness to refute it, a judge/jury will likely convict. As noted above, some charges are often pure BS and leave it to the accused to worm their way out of it.
Just to be a PITA, does this mean that since I have a ski pass-thru in my back seat, and can therefore flip the armrest down / pop off the ski bag / reach into the trunk, then my car doesn't have a "locked trunk" under the law? And what about my older car, where I could fold the back seats down from the inside?
FWIW, if I'm taking the car to the range, I use the same setup as my truck: unloaded gun in a locked case, in the trunk for the car or on the back floor for the truck. "How many angels" arguments can be fun, but I'm sure as hell in no mood to be a test case.
No. You can legally leave a loaded magazine in the glove compartment or under the seat, whether that's a smart thing to do or not. Just don't forget about it and loan your car to someone without a LTC.
And if you're unloading, remember to remove the round in the chamber, with care to avoid an ND as Len notes.
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Be aware that in addition to the trunk release, some cars have fold down back seats. In order to be secure from the passenger compartment, the lock disabling the fold down feature must be engaged from within the trunk.
IIRC, the requirement for locked storage for ammunition comes from the CMRs for fire safety and not the MGLs. The CMRs for fire safety do not apply to a vehicle.
I suppose if you left it loose in an unlocked car, they could take a swing at you for violating 269-10, leaving it unattended "with intent to transfer" or the like.
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No, you're not missing a thing. U da man. Please keep your stellar advice coming because nobody knows what the very definition of unloading a gun is. You forgot to mention verify clear...mag well and chamber...always 2 to check
So, you've never been there when someone's had an ND because he (state cop) forgot? Quite an experience in a small room with no hearing protection. Through a book, pillow, edge of a mattress, and ended up in the heating register.
But, hey, glad to give you an opportunity to be snarky. We live to serve.
Just to be a PITA, does this mean that since I have a ski pass-thru in my back seat, and can therefore flip the armrest down / pop off the ski bag / reach into the trunk, then my car doesn't have a "locked trunk" under the law? And what about my older car, where I could fold the back seats down from the inside?
What you describe sounds like "NOT" a locked trunk for the purposes of storing/transporting a gun per MGL.
As answered above. Only applies to a dwelling (Fire Marshal's CMR), not a car.
Really? Steering wheel in the way, some folks have a good sized pot/beer belly, you are sitting so your legs can be in the way, etc. It's not the safest location to disarm. If you are standing up so you can avoid sweeping your body, have your gut and legs out of the way, etc. it is a lot safer to disarm . . . but not appropriate wrt the discussion here.
Yes, really. The center console or dashboard would be a safe direction and good alternative for those who are girth challenged. If you can't keep your finger off the trigger and safely clear a gun you have no business carrying. I don't care where you're sitting or standing. If you're too obese to clear a gun in the car try standing with it pointed in the trunk.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
Don’t forget loading when you return. I feel quite comfortable however, riddle me this Batman...
Why do many ranges require that when you chamber a round you are pointed down range and on target so that a round won’t leave the range? Slam fire. Although more common in rifles with free floating firing pins, they happen.
