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I'm pretty supportive of GOAL...but

42!

42!

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I know GOAL has been working to get the word out, and I've heard they are going to hire a marketing person to help with this. And I've volunteered to help. And if you haven't see me say it before, THANK YOU to all who have been working to make the events a success and get the word out.

But you need to step it up.

I say this after yet another encounter with people who will side with us but didn't know what has been happening.

This evening I was again playing town politics and after the meeting I was talking to a couple people. One is a known Republican, and the other is known to stir up issues by challenging the decisions made. I'll call them Rep and Cha respectively.

Rep and their spouse recently complete their firearms class (I think in Attleborough) in preparation of getting their licenses.

Cha dislikes our AG and wants to see her voted out for a number of reasons.

Neither had heard about what the AG did on 7/20! Or anything about the Remington/Glock issue. Or the NSSF suit (that it was coming since I didn't know it had been filed at that time). Basically they missed most of her overreach.

These are politically active people, one a soon-to-be gun owner. They were on our side before we even had a side, they just didn't know.

We have supporters out there that don't know GOAL or these issues exist.
 
What planet are they from? Maybe GOAL needs to develop some sort of faster than light communication technology to reach them.
 
This isn't the first time I've run into this, actually it's the third. First was a gun owner I was buying a used gun cab from, second was a town meeting member (a vocal Republican), and not this. These people covered a wide demographic. Keep in mind that I'm in metro-west and generally speaking its a very lib area.

I was very surprised that the firearms instructor didn't at least make a passing reference to it.

BTW the soon-to-be gun owner hadn't heard of NES either so I made sure to point them in this direction.
 
So, what do you suggest GOAL do? Major media advertising is very expensive and I am sure GOAL is looking to get the most bang for its buck. Also, GOAL has no authority over what firearms instructors teach in their class. GOAL does provide pamphlets to hand out to students, but they can't require instructors to use them. This whole issue came out of left field and caught everyone by surprise. When I saw DeLeo on the WCVB Sunday morning program, I thought we were going to be in for a fight during the next legislative session. I did not think Healey would go full tyrant on us. Strategizing on how to take this on takes time, and in the political climate of this state, you have to be very careful. I would bet that most people in this state would give up some freedom in order to feel safer. Overwhelmingly, we are a "let government take care of it" society.
 
weldingmachine said:
Well, if that pep rally was an actual protest & the highway was stopped cold you can guarantee they would have heard about it...
The news might have actually covered it too!
Click to expand...


Are you you out of your mind? How would that help? The media and the AG would spin that so fast as crazy teabaggers with their guns violently protesting over common sense gun laws. After all she isn't taking guns just restricting the sale of military style assault rifles, the same style legally purchased by the Orlando night club shooter, what private citizen really needs that? After all it is for the children.

You really think that's going to sway anyone to our side in MA? Fastest way for me to NOT get involved with a group whatever it is would be for them to do stupid shit like blocking the highway in a protest. Remeber those douche bags from Boston that cemented themselves to 93 in Boston? Anyone remember what they were protesting? I don't, but I do remember that I was stuck in traffic for hours because of it.

If the sheeple have their heads buried in the sand that they don't know what is going on no grass roots organization like GOAL can change that, and OP, you've informed several people about what's going on, this is how we are going to effect change with the populace in MA.. Gun owners are so vilified in this shit hole state that people need to meet normal level headed gun owners, most non gun people that I meet that later find out I'm into guns and carrying all the time are surprised because I don't fit the narrative that's pounded into them on the news 24x7
 
weldingmachine said:
Well, if that pep rally was an actual protest & the highway was stopped cold you can guarantee they would have heard about it...
The news might have actually covered it too!
Click to expand...

Right. The news would have covered it with the headline "Gun nuts block highway, keep child with hangnail from getting to podiatrist appointment" and IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN POSITIVE.
 
OP: why are you blaming GOAL for people being stupid and not aware? You and many others lately are armchair quarterbacks and complainers and experts.
 
free said:
OP: why are you blaming GOAL for people being stupid and not aware? You and many others lately are armchair quarterbacks and complainers and experts.
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This. GOAL being the issue wouldn't have even crossed my mind. GOAL does a lot for us and I'm not understanding how people are so quick to bash/blame them?[rolleyes]
 
Let me just stop any of you who *think* you know what goal should be doing, or those of you that have these "amazing" ideas that you can't believe goal hasn't done.

They're not new to this and I can assure you they have either thought of or tried what you think is the golden ticket. As someone who got heavily involved back in 2012 and tried to start my own organization to work with and help goal, it is an extremely difficult road to travel with roadblocks nearly everywhere. The biggest thing in all of this, is that the protection of your rights can not just be bought and paid for. Each and every one of you needs to put in the time and effort to fight for your rights. If there is something you think goal should be doing, stop and ask yourself "can I do this?" If the answer is yes, than go do it!! Make some flyers or pamphlets, schedule some time to talk to a target group that you think could be useful and then point them towards goal when all is said and done. The bottom line is, you need to advocate for yourself 10x harder than any organization. At the end of the day, only you can protect your rights.
 
free said:
OP: why are you blaming GOAL for people being stupid and not aware? You and many others lately are armchair quarterbacks and complainers and experts.
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There are plenty of those type around but I wouldn't frame 42! as being in that category. He has been engaged and active, for one, with the GOAL efforts.
 
The organic reach of GOAL social media posts in the month of August was just under 700K people.

Social media ad campaigns were tuned to reach people exactly like the man mentioned in the OP

I think the question should be, how is that person absorbing information? Once we know that we might have a better chance of reaching them.

ETA, also, GOAL Exec. Director Jim Wallace was all over the local news stations, radio, national news, NRA news and recently spent a bunch of time with Vice News for an exclusive they're doing on the issue.

So, once again, I have to ask, how is that guy getting his info?
 
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Mike S said:
I think the question should be, how is that person absorbing information?
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With a slack jaw, and through a lens clouded by decades of progressive social conditioning.

I think the only way that GOAL, or any of us, makes a meaningful and positive impression on those who aren't reflexively sympathetic to things like liberty and 2A is to shock them out of their complacency. Not sure what that looks like, but it would need to be something that's unequivocally positive for the message, and for that you need a set of facts and circumstances that remove any doubt in the mind of the average window-licker that we hold the moral high ground in the situation.
 
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Educating the general public is one of the biggest challenges in ANY industry. Ever watch Shark Tank? Those guys run from most of the products that require an infomercial to sell. It's difficult to quickly sum up a position and explain why it's correct while doing it on a budget and presenting to people that clearly aren't up on the news.
 
Mike S said:
I think the question should be, how is that person absorbing information? Once we know that we might have a better chance of reaching them.
Click to expand...

I think this hits the nail right on the head. If I wasn't on NES, I would have missed a lot of the AG's bullshit. In addition, if I wasn't a member of a gun club I wouldn't have heard of it at all.

The mainstream media is how most people get their info, and since they have completely shut down on the issue, it is very hard to get this out to the general public. Keep in mind, our target audience very likely does not read the glob for the same reasons we don't. There were nearly 5k people at the state house on 7/23, but that only prompted one tiny story on WCVB that reported ~300 people that I could find in any of the major Boston news channels. Nothing at all was said about the hundreds of people who packed the state house on lobby day. They chose instead to focus on the BLM rally, despite the NRA guy being super prominent in all the pictures they put up.

I think GOAL is doing a great job saturating the channels available to us, but the people we really need to get through to don't frequent those channels of communication, or don't know about them. Unless we can break through to the major networks, this is really not going to change quickly. The only way to bring these people around is word of mouth. Talk to everyone you can; anyone who will listen. We need more prominent people talking about it as well. Jim is doing a great job, but he's just one voice lost in a sea of other people and their issues.
 
amm5061 said:
I think this hits the nail right on the head. If I wasn't on NES, I would have missed a lot of the AG's bullshit. In addition, if I wasn't a member of a gun club I wouldn't have heard of it at all.

The mainstream media is how most people get their info, and since they have completely shut down on the issue, it is very hard to get this out to the general public. Keep in mind, our target audience very likely does not read the glob for the same reasons we don't. There were nearly 5k people at the state house on 7/23, but that only prompted one tiny story on WCVB that reported ~300 people that I could find in any of the major Boston news channels. Nothing at all was said about the hundreds of people who packed the state house on lobby day. They chose instead to focus on the BLM rally, despite the NRA guy being super prominent in all the pictures they put up.

I think GOAL is doing a great job saturating the channels available to us, but the people we really need to get through to don't frequent those channels of communication, or don't know about them. Unless we can break through to the major networks, this is really not going to change quickly. The only way to bring these people around is word of mouth. Talk to everyone you can; anyone who will listen. We need more prominent people talking about it as well. Jim is doing a great job, but he's just one voice lost in a sea of other people and their issues.
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Thank you.

One simple way we can spread the word is via the sign/sticker campaign. We are spreading "Healey Hurts Families" yard signs across the state and will have them available at the Marlborough gun show this weekend. We will also have "HealeyHurtsFamilies.com" bumper stickers there as well.
 
OP, does GOAL need to do more? Absolutely. But does EVERYONE need to do more? Absolutely!
But... Whaddya want them to do with extremely limited participation and limited funds? The fact that their membership is literally a FRACTION of the number of licensed gun owners is what's truly disappointing... If ever there was a state where there should be ONE HUNDRED PERCENT participation by gun owners, it's MA.
We're living under one of the most oppressive "regimes" in the nation with respect to gun rights, and yet there are STILL a decisive margin of gun folk who can't be bothered participating and/or helping out GOAL, and who would rather spend the annual GOAL membership fee on Coors or Bud Lite than "dish out any more money from my wallet".
They're also usually the first to scream when they get kicked in the scrotum by a law/rule/edict/proclamation from the Beacon Hill throne, about something that FURTHER infringes on one of the first ten "rights" listed in a certain document on display at the National Archives. I personally do everything I can, when I can, but if I lived any closer than the 75 miles between my house and GOAL headquarters? I'd literally be stopping by literally EVERY EFFIN' DAY and bringing them coffee or sweeping the g*ddamned toilets and floors for them, if it meant saving them from paying a cleaning company to do it, and let them spend the savings on more advertising, public relations, lobbying efforts etc etc etc...

You honorably, and thank you for the suggestion and thread posting, suggest that they do more, advertise more, spend more etc... but....spend it from what resource? If you've never budgeted out an advertising or PR campaign (I have) for any organization, any business, any product or goods, etc, you'd be literally stunned at how expensive it is to EFFECTIVELY target market and to then lobby the powers that be to, um, "get them to $upport whatever it is you, um, want the esteemed legislators, politicians, judges etc to $upport on your behalf".

It's all about the money. Money is power, and the blithering idiot Liberal MA electorate are literally BOMBARDED with "anti" message after "anti" message literally endlessly. And they have young zombies completely brainwashed by 25 years of "guns are bad!!" propaganda by pencil necked geeks like Rosenthal etc. Counteracting that crap with a marketing effort takes, well, EFFORT but more importantly takes bucks, and I mean BIG BUCKS (which Rosenthal is loaded with also).
Maura and her minions have an unlimited supply of bucks, courtesy of MA taxpayers. For every dollar you want GOAL to spend counteracting Frau Healey's commandments, she can spend a hundred times that with the flick of her pen, and then justify the expense to the taxpayers as "an important investment to help keep us safe" (blah blah puke blah).

Does GOAL need to do more? As Stone Cold Steve Austin would say, "Can I get a Hell Yeah??!!!" But what do you want Jim Wallace to do when he has to sell raffle tickets just to pay the cleaning service next month? Are you gonna triple-down on your membership fee next time around (to make up for the thousands upon thousands of MA gun owners who are potential members but can't be bothered to join, or can't "justify" buying a six pack instead of the nightly 30 rack?

Additionally, as for some people "not being aware" of Maura's doings? There are millions of Americans (and probably some gun owners in MA) who couldn't even tell you off the top of their heads who the US Speaker of the House is, and some probably can't even quickly name who the Vice-President is (which is understandable, since sometimes Amtrak Joe can't remember what the hell his own last name is either).

But I would be willing to bet that the pair of "unaware" folks you mention are well aware by now of how many kids Brad and Angelina have, and I'd bet my monthly mortgage payment that they know who won the last edition of "The Bachelor" or "Biggest Loser" etc etc.. and they probably know what the Red Sox "magic number" is to clinch a playoff berth this morning..

In other words, they know the vitally "important stuff in life" these days.

ps: I'd give an enthusiastic +1 for your post if I could from this Tapatalk app, but don't know how. There's probably a way, but Tapatalk "hasn't spent the money and effort" marketing the instructional advice to me
 
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JZ1018 said:
So, what do you suggest GOAL do? Major media advertising is very expensive and I am sure GOAL is looking to get the most bang for its buck. Also, GOAL has no authority over what firearms instructors teach in their class. GOAL does provide pamphlets to hand out to students, but they can't require instructors to use them. This whole issue came out of left field and caught everyone by surprise. When I saw DeLeo on the WCVB Sunday morning program, I thought we were going to be in for a fight during the next legislative session. I did not think Healey would go full tyrant on us. Strategizing on how to take this on takes time, and in the political climate of this state, you have to be very careful. I would bet that most people in this state would give up some freedom in order to feel safer. Overwhelmingly, we are a "let government take care of it" society.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself this . . . WHO owns the major media? Do you really think that they would take a pro-2A org's money for advertising? Personally I don't think so and they are private enterprises who are legally free to pick and choose who they do business with.

Using GOAL's (or someone else's) material to teach MA gun law to BFS students is a lame cop-out vs. creating your own material. I've also found some obsolete and incorrect info in the GOAL handouts. Personally I created my own and added some things that aren't required per BFS standards (which are terribly pathetic) but I deemed important. Also understand that most students will never look at that packet of info you hand them, so you need to be intimately familiar with what you are teaching and not rely on a handout of any sort (which sadly BFS standards are such that you could just provide the handout and not mention a word of MGLs and that is compliant)! If I create my own document, I'm much more familiar with it than if I handout someone else's work.

ETA: In a BFS course you try to limit it to the 4-5 hrs or old 8 hr course, adding tons of legal stuff including "current issues" can drag that out by a few more hours. That's why I created a dedicated course to teach the finer details of MA gun laws. Also I have found that people who haven't even held a gun yet can easily get overwhelmed and just can't grasp all that stuff until they have some experience in gun ownership and start to get curious about the legalities of this or that.

The question was asked by Mike . . . How do people keep up with the news? Just my SWAG but these days it is more likely Faceplant, Twitter, etc. than reading newspapers online/hardcopy or watching TV snews! GOAL has reacted to that and is reaching out that way to folks, but people need a pointer to read any particular webpage. Faceplant/Twitter account to keep up.

And people give up personal freedom every day (and think it is OK) for what they think is a bit of "safety". Turning that thought process around is a humungous task that I don't think is possible in today's liberal society. Even many gun owners "don't get it"!
 
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The greatest usurpation of the American legislative system in history has occurred and the media have said NOTHING about it.

Exactly how is the average person going to know?

What I've found is that people are getting MORE angry when they learn about it now, they are doubly shocked. First at the corruption and then at the complicity of the media to allow it.

This is why the pedal must stay on the floor and everyone needs to continue to spread the word.

On Tuesday night, I was on a panel with my Police Chief discussing child safety and guns. The forum started out as a "how to ask your neighbor", but ended more in a "wow, we all need to be aware".

Along with the standard points about taking responsibility to satisfy the curiosity of youth and providing them with the knowledge to be safe in a world of guns, we got into some of the legal requirements of gun storage. People are shocked that there are now 4 different sources of gun storage rules.

1) The Mass General Laws.
2) Code of Massachusetts Regulations. (ammo storage is here)
3) Court decisions. Implications of the Runyan case for example.
4) The AG's constantly changing web site. How else do you know what is currently an Assault Weapon as there are specific storage and transport rules for those and the penalties are harsh.

I simply presented the information in a matter of fact way. It was the audience that started to go nuts with "well, how do you know when things change?" "How can any citizen know the way to be legal?" and "How many laws and regulations are there?" It was awesome when the chief basically said "The rules are extremely difficult to understand and are constantly in flux. I have to rely on a book written by Chief Glidden to really know them myself." That's when I held up my copy of the chief's book, declared it as the "Cliff Notes" of Massachusetts Gun Laws. (and my chief nodded in agreement) And then I held up the BATF's gun law book and pointed out that the federal book is only half the size and it covers all kinds of things like importing guns and ammo as well as all the manufacturing and distribution laws.

The number of minds blown was quite satisfying.

The point is, people are hammered day after day by the media with false information. It takes face to face discussions to really get the truth across. But, the wonderful thing about the truth is that it is usually the easy argument.

It is only when the debate starts to spout statistics that things get ugly. Thankfully, the forum's purpose was to discuss child safety with firearms, so it was very easy to turn back onto topic with a simple "This topic would get quite involved and it does not help us with keeping our children safe."

Because there is no mass media to speak to the truth, it has to be person to person. Organizations like GOAL can raise awareness, help shape the message, and possibly grab some attention, but they can't make that one-on-one contact and explain the details. Frankly, even you and I can't do it for everyone. All we can do is educate those we can when we can. It is as the numbers of those who understand grows that will bring in the rest. Like Johnny Appleseed, it takes time to plant the seeds and let the tree grow. The key is to start.
 
Paint me in the "this isn't GOAL's fault" camp. I understand the OP's frustration. But people just don't have stuff on their radar.

What's the last challenge to Roe v. Wade? Anyone know??? I bet some 50-something Catholic mom-of-5 that's been in 3 protests over the last 20 years can tell you chapter and verse.

The best we can do is tastefully keep re-posting and re-tweeting these things to social media. And talk to people.
 
Hey, you want to try something "different"?

You can always just sit at your keyboard and send these every day to 1 Ashburnham Place:

BagoDicks.jpg


But, getting off your butts and talking to people would make a bigger difference.
 
Chris said:
Hey, you want to try something "different"?

You can always just sit at your keyboard and send these every day to 1 Ashburnham Place:

BagoDicks.jpg


But, getting off your butts and talking to people would make a bigger difference.
Click to expand...

But But But that's harassment because of her choice in partner! Its a clear aggression and you are a horrible horrible person doing that.
 
42! said:
I know GOAL has been working to get the word out, and I've heard they are going to hire a marketing person to help with this. And I've volunteered to help. And if you haven't see me say it before, THANK YOU to all who have been working to make the events a success and get the word out.

But you need to step it up.

I say this after yet another encounter with people who will side with us but didn't know what has been happening.

This evening I was again playing town politics and after the meeting I was talking to a couple people. One is a known Republican, and the other is known to stir up issues by challenging the decisions made. I'll call them Rep and Cha respectively.

Rep and their spouse recently complete their firearms class (I think in Attleborough) in preparation of getting their licenses.

Cha dislikes our AG and wants to see her voted out for a number of reasons.

Neither had heard about what the AG did on 7/20! Or anything about the Remington/Glock issue. Or the NSSF suit (that it was coming since I didn't know it had been filed at that time). Basically they missed most of her overreach.

These are politically active people, one a soon-to-be gun owner. They were on our side before we even had a side, they just didn't know.

We have supporters out there that don't know GOAL or these issues exist.
Click to expand...

I call bullshit.

Because after 7/20, everyone and their brother were calling their reps and Senators. Writing emails, etc. Surely YOU were among those who were calling Rep and Cha yourself! I know I called my rep and Sen, and got responses from both.
 
Way to much to respond with quotes.

Wrote a long response...deleted it and left this. You'll never know the emails and conversations I've have with people from GOAL, but you could at least look at my posts.

As for the armchair quarterback comment. Those that matter know how much this does not apply to me.
 
StevieP said:
I call bullshit.

Because after 7/20, everyone and their brother were calling their reps and Senators. Writing emails, etc. Surely YOU were among those who were calling Rep and Cha yourself! I know I called my rep and Sen, and got responses from both.
Click to expand...

I had a 2 hour meeting with my Representative and an hour with my useless Senator.

The Rep I used was not intended to stand for Representative, just someone in town politics.
 

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