Illegal Data Release Massachusetts

[wcorey]

What's that, and how does it get tied back to an individual record on those spreadsheets? I mean, it can certainly be done, but I think any of us would be hard pressed to look at a random row on there and tie it back to a specific individual.

Birth date and I guess town also, so two things both very publicly accessible through the registry of deeds or whatever. I found mine rather quickly as well as a couple friends/relatives, haven't bothered to look up any strangers. And you don't necessarily start with a random row, can search whatever info you have on someone and see if anything pops up.
Then there's the personal transfer exchange of info that gives you everything to really nail it down...

 

[Mountain]

To be fair, I don't think it's a direct violation of that. That only applies to names and addresses, and those can't be figured out without at least one other piece of data.

It is child's play to isolate multiple unique individuals from these databases. Yes there will be exceptions in bigger cities with multiple people matching the same data but apply some simple logic and you can narrow it down.

Want to find a specific individual to know what guns he/she has? Anyone who ever posted online something about one or more of their MA purchases or transfers can be easily found. Anyone with rather unique guns or combinations thereof is particularly vulnerable. I've done this as well- it's easy and only takes a few minutes to have a name and address. Virtually all of us who use gun forums to actually discuss guns are vulnerable.

 

[namedpipes]

I'm honestly shocked that anyone thinks the data dump can't be re-linked to original names. 100%? No. Many? Absolutely, especially in smaller communities.

It only gets easier if you have funding available to pay for commercially available demographic data.

Do you not KNOW that you sold your identity for the privilege of browsing the internet, online shopping, Facebook, Instagram, NES, Twitter, etc.?

 

[not new guy]

I'm honestly shocked that anyone thinks the data dump can't be re-linked to original names. 100%? No. Many? Absolutely, especially in smaller communities.

It only gets easier if you have funding available to pay for commercially available demographic data.

Do you not KNOW that you sold your identity for the privilege of browsing the internet, online shopping, Facebook, Instagram, NES, Twitter, etc.?

The question is really a legal one, and that's whether or not it's PII. We can certainly take pieces of data and info from other sources and ID individuals with these lists - and I am concerned that a third party everytown-type org is doing that - but whether or not this amounts to a violation of MGL is sort of the question. And even then MGL gives the .gov a lot of flexibility in getting away with stuff like this.

For example:

201 CMR 17.00: Standards for the Protection of Personal Information of MA Residents

This is an unofficial version of Commonwealth regulations and is posted here for the convenience of the public. It is not an official statement of the regulations.

www.mass.gov

Personal information, a Massachusetts resident's first name and last name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements that relate to such resident: (a) Social Security number; (b) driver's license number or state-issued identification card number; or (c) financial account number, or credit or debit card number, with or without any required security code, access code, personal identification number or password, that would permit access to a resident’s financial account; provided, however, that “Personal information” shall not include information that is lawfully obtained from publicly available information, or from federal, state or local government records lawfully made available to the general public.

 

[namedpipes]

The question is really a legal one, and that's whether or not it's PII. We can certainly take pieces of data and info from other sources and ID individuals with these lists - and I am concerned that a third party everytown-type org is doing that - but whether or not this amounts to a violation of MGL is sort of the question. And even then MGL gives the .gov a lot of flexibility in getting away with stuff like this.

For example:

201 CMR 17.00: Standards for the Protection of Personal Information of MA Residents

This is an unofficial version of Commonwealth regulations and is posted here for the convenience of the public. It is not an official statement of the regulations.

www.mass.gov

If it looks like crap and it smells like crap, then it's crap.

This data dump contains sufficient details about the individuals to de-anonymize the data for a non trivial number of citizens.

It was deliberate and purposely done in a way to demoralize a targeted demographic in the state (gun owners).

The fact that this thread alone is over a thousand posts, now a news broadcast, is sufficient to show it worked.

Such an abuse of the public trust is disgusting and inexcusable. The people involved in this dump should be sitting in prison cells, but nobody will ever be held accountable, no matter how this plays out.

 

[not new guy]

If it looks like crap and it smells like crap, then it's crap.

This data dump contains sufficient details about the individuals to de-anonymize the data for a non trivial number of citizens.

It was deliberate and purposely done in a way to demoralize a targeted demographic in the state (gun owners).

The fact that this thread alone is over a thousand posts, now a news broadcast, is sufficient to show it worked.

Such an abuse of the public trust is disgusting and inexcusable. The people involved in this dump should be sitting in prison cells, but nobody will ever be held accountable, no matter how this plays out.

Agreed

 

[Picton]

If it looks like crap and it smells like crap, then it's crap.

This data dump contains sufficient details about the individuals to de-anonymize the data for a non trivial number of citizens.

It was deliberate and purposely done in a way to demoralize a targeted demographic in the state (gun owners).

The fact that this thread alone is over a thousand posts, now a news broadcast, is sufficient to show it worked.

All true.

But not necessarily unlawful, is what I think @not new guy is saying above. The devil is in the details, and lawyers are good at details. "If it looks like crap and it smells like crap, then it's crap" works well enough to prove intent for you and I, but maybe not according to the letter of the law.

 

[not new guy]

Yes - and even then we're talking about The King's Men being held accountable for their transgressions. Good luck with that. Besides, there's no un-ringing the bell at this point.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It was deliberate and purposely done in a way to demoralize a targeted demographic in the state (gun owners).

We don't know that. There is a chance that a low level IT person was given the task to delete private data, and didn't realize an index to the name record would allow mapping to real names with only rudimentary tech skills. Comm2A has received LTC data dumps in the past where that key was redacted.

What we do know is, intentional or not, it was almost certainly a violation of law. When "we" do something, that often does not matter. For example, the MA SJC has ruled that an AD in your home, if within 500ft of an occupied dwelling, is a "per-se" offense not requiring intent (mens rea or scienture in legal mumbo-jumbo) because the penalty is "minor" (though some who paid a small fine and became a federal PP for life may disagree with that conclusion).

I'd bet the worst thing that can happen to the person and department responsible for the release of data is a "don't do it again" from the courts.

 

[kevin9]

If it looks like crap and it smells like crap, then it's crap.

This data dump contains sufficient details about the individuals to de-anonymize the data for a non trivial number of citizens.

It was deliberate and purposely done in a way to demoralize a targeted demographic in the state (gun owners).

The fact that this thread alone is over a thousand posts, now a news broadcast, is sufficient to show it worked.

Such an abuse of the public trust is disgusting and inexcusable. The people involved in this dump should be sitting in prison cells, but nobody will ever be held accountable, no matter how this plays out.

Agree!
And I will repeat again, regardless of whether laws were broken in releasing it, there is no valid or public interest reason to release the data. It was done only to cause grief for gun owners and FFLs.

 

[deerdad]

Someone may snap eventually and start using some of the kings (or queens) men for target practice.

Yes - and even then we're talking about The King's Men being held accountable for their transgressions. Good luck with that. Besides, there's no un-ringing the bell at this point.

 

[rudiewhitebwoy]

Wtf. Yup definitely Patriot

I texted my friend that works there, he said it's and old clip.

Makes me think back to 2019 when ABC posted a video of the war in Syria that was actually Knob Creek.

ABC Apologizes for Showing Video From U.S. Gun Range in Report on Syria (Published 2019)

The video appeared in a report on Turkish attacks in northern Syria. ABC News did not specify how the error had occurred.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Len-2A Training]

The question is really a legal one, and that's whether or not it's PII. We can certainly take pieces of data and info from other sources and ID individuals with these lists - and I am concerned that a third party everytown-type org is doing that - but whether or not this amounts to a violation of MGL is sort of the question. And even then MGL gives the .gov a lot of flexibility in getting away with stuff like this.

For example:

201 CMR 17.00: Standards for the Protection of Personal Information of MA Residents

This is an unofficial version of Commonwealth regulations and is posted here for the convenience of the public. It is not an official statement of the regulations.

www.mass.gov

Try reading C. 66 S. 10B which predates the CMR and is more explicit wrt gun owners and LEO PII protection.

All true.

But not necessarily unlawful, is what I think @not new guy is saying above. The devil is in the details, and lawyers are good at details. "If it looks like crap and it smells like crap, then it's crap" works well enough to prove intent for you and I, but maybe not according to the letter of the law.

Yes - and even then we're talking about The King's Men being held accountable for their transgressions. Good luck with that. Besides, there's no un-ringing the bell at this point.

We don't know that. There is a chance that a low level IT person was given the task to delete private data, and didn't realize an index to the name record would allow mapping to real names with only rudimentary tech skills. Comm2A has received LTC data dumps in the past where that key was redacted.

What we do know is, intentional or not, it was almost certainly a violation of law. When "we" do something, that often does not matter. For example, the MA SJC has ruled that an AD in your home, if within 500ft of an occupied dwelling, is a "per-se" offense not requiring intent (mens rea or scienture in legal mumbo-jumbo) because the penalty is "minor" (though some who paid a small fine and became a federal PP for life may disagree with that conclusion).

I'd bet the worst thing that can happen to the person and department responsible for the release of data is a "don't do it again" from the courts.

There is never (in MA) any penalty for the gov't to screw up and violate MGL. So we're never going to get a proper resolution to transgresions like this.

 

[not new guy]

Try reading C. 66 S. 10B which predates the CMR and is more explicit wrt gun owners and LEO PII protection.

I did. I don't think it changes much, but in any event I was just quoting the MGL definition of personal information in response to a post that invoked the term.

Section 10B. The commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services, the department of criminal justice information services and its agents, servants, and attorneys including the keeper of the records of the firearms records bureau of said department, or any licensing authority, as defined in section 121 of chapter 140, shall not disclose any records divulging or tending to divulge the names and addresses of persons who own or possess firearms, rifles, shotguns, machine guns and ammunition therefor, as defined in said section 121 of said chapter 140, and names and addresses of persons licensed to carry or possess the same to any person, firm, corporation, entity or agency except criminal justice agencies as defined in section 167 of chapter 6 and except to the extent such information relates solely to the person making the request and is necessary to the official interests of the entity making the request.

There's enough slop in here that a sympathetic judge can easily rule that the FRB didn't actually divulge "the names and addresses" of gun owners. Is it right? No. Was the intent of the drafters to allow the FRB to do this? I'm sure it wasn't. Yet here we are. They did it, it's done, nobody responsible will be punished and nobody injured will be compensated.

 

[Dadstoys]

To be fair, I don't think it's a direct violation of that. That only applies to names and addresses, and those can't be figured out without at least one other piece of data.

Wait for it.......

 

[tbk5]

There is never (in MA) any penalty for the gov't to screw up and violate MGL. So we're never going to get a proper resolution to transgresions like this.

It depends on the definition of proper. If people stop submitting eFA10s for personal transactions, out of state purchases, change of address, etc., the system becomes even more useless. One can always do a bill of sale and the PDF version of an FA-10 for record keeping. I believe this will be the outcome of this "breech". More people will not play with .gov. I said it earlier, we are not the type of people buying a firearm to hit up the corner store.

 

[not new guy]

More people will not play with .gov. I said it earlier, we are not the type of people buying a firearm to hit up the corner store.

Nothing will change. The law abiding gun owners will continue reporting for fear of being busted later.

 

[JoseyWales]

So, just 2 more weeks until we see what happens GOAL vs Commonwealth...?

 

[Broc]

I know I sound like a broken record but you need to know the gun (and probably the serial number depending how common the gun model is) that someone owns/purchased in order to figure out who it is. As I mentioned before, I tried to look up a friend of a friend (as I know their birthday and town they live in) but I do not know guns that they own. There are multiple people in that town with the same birthday so it's hard to pinpoint who is who.

Not saying this data release is warranted by any means. I hope the state loses in court over this but I'm not holding my breath

In big towns with several birthdays, it is harder. Like Boston.

But, some towns there is only one person with that birthday.

When I was filtering for my birthday, I checked a few towns, there were a few that only had one person.

If someone has a public FB profile you could see if that person belongs on gun groups and find out if the person posted about guns, or check the profile pics for guns.

If anyone goes through this data to steal sh*t, it won't be some random crackhead looking to steal $100 for his next high. Not saying it will be someone super smart, but it will be someone that is a little smarter than your average ghetto criminal.

 

[Drix]

In big towns with several birthdays, it is harder. Like Boston.

But, some towns there is only one person with that birthday.

When I was filtering for my birthday, I checked a few towns, there were a few that only had one person.

If someone has a public FB profile you could see if that person belongs on gun groups and find out if the person posted about guns, or check the profile pics for guns.

If anyone goes through this data to steal sh*t, it won't be some random crackhead looking to steal $100 for his next high. Not saying it will be someone super smart, but it will be someone that is a little smarter than your average ghetto criminal.

This.

People looking to use this list are going to hit the MG owners and large historical collectors first.

 

[TLB]

This.

People looking to use this list are going to hit the MG owners and large historical collectors first.

Agree. My collection is really nothing worth going out of your way to steal. But, it does let you know you may take incoming fire if you break in. It's probably a deterrent to a criminal in my case rather than motivation. I would be pissed if I had a high value collection. But, I'm also utterly unsurprised it happened so there's that too.

 

[JFR2]

New article on the release.

Herald gets action! Gun sale data shared by the state taken down

 

[pupchow]

Many of my neighbors are not licensed, that much I know. Now. Thanks mass,gov

 

[babygorilla]

Nothing will change. The law abiding gun owners will continue reporting for fear of being busted later.

But does reporting even matter when they can't even compile a complete list when ratting us out to the GP?
Several people here have noted that their list of owned firearms is no where near complete. How can a DA charge a HO for not registering a transaction when it is now publicly available and known that the state can't accurately track the transactions?

 

[Buck F]

Herald gets action! Gun sale data shared by the state taken down

The state has reversed course on a plan to share potentially identifying information contained in decades of gun transactions it had recently posted online following complaints by gun rights groups…

www.bostonherald.com

 

[namedpipes]

It depends on the definition of proper. If people stop submitting eFA10s for personal transactions, out of state purchases, change of address, etc., the system becomes even more useless. One can always do a bill of sale and the PDF version of an FA-10 for record keeping. I believe this will be the outcome of this "breech". More people will not play with .gov. I said it earlier, we are not the type of people buying a firearm to hit up the corner store.

95% of the gun owners in Mass have not (and likely will never) heard of this data dump.

Most have maybe a pistol for defense, probably a hunting rifle and maybe a shotgun so they can shoot trap on Sunday mornings. And they've probably owned them for decades.

In big towns with several birthdays, it is harder. Like Boston.

But, some towns there is only one person with that birthday.

When I was filtering for my birthday, I checked a few towns, there were a few that only had one person.

If someone has a public FB profile you could see if that person belongs on gun groups and find out if the person posted about guns, or check the profile pics for guns.

If anyone goes through this data to steal sh*t, it won't be some random crackhead looking to steal $100 for his next high. Not saying it will be someone super smart, but it will be someone that is a little smarter than your average ghetto criminal.

For whatever reason, men are more likely to be gun owners than women. Although they look better doing it.

Those few matching birthdays in a small town are even fewer if you assume your target is likely male.

These are hard to visually, maybe, but easy to find the patterns of you load the data into a database.

 

[not new guy]

But does reporting even matter when they can't even compile a complete list when ratting us out to the GP?
Several people here have noted that their list of owned firearms is no where near complete. How can a DA charge a HO for not registering a transaction when it is now publicly available and known that the state can't accurately track the transactions?

If ignorance of the law is no excuse I’m sure the law being otherwise poorly enforced is no excuse either.

 

[babygorilla]

If ignorance of the law is no excuse I’m sure the law being otherwise poorly enforced is no excuse either.

Wouldn't it be great though for a defense counsel to point to the crappy documentation by the state for some gangbanger, "your honor, as can be seen there are many gaps in the states data, and my client show that he registered his firearm on MM/DD/YY"

 

[not new guy]

Wouldn't it be great though for a defense counsel to point to the crappy documentation by the state for some gangbanger, "your honor, as can be seen there are many gaps in the states data, and my client show that he registered his firearm on MM/DD/YY"

I got out of a speeding ticket as a teen by showing up at court and arguing that the cop’s estimate of my speed was completely unreliable because he managed to screw up filling out a half dozen of the other fields on the ticket. Crazy sloppy stuff. The judge looked over to the PD rep who just shrugged.

I got out of it because I was a kid in a suit who showed up, and it was a speeding ticket so who cares. It wasn’t an opportunity for them to make an example out of an evil gun owner.

 

[SS1]

Sorry we have dropped your home owners/ business insurance because you are too much of a risk,
Funny Sounds familiar....
Oh yeah, ESG......
That both maura and andrea are absolutely behind
The Progressive left use the slow road so the end game is hidden
Like the frog in the pot........