If you could run a gun show, what would you do different?

[Green_Manelishi]

OK, 24 posts about shows by people who (other than Boudrie) were probably not there...

I was there. When asked by Securitas, "Are you armed?", I spread my arms and said "Yes, I have two of them."

I saw one knife of interest to me but declined to spend the money. I saw several snakes which made me drool and remember when I owned one, and I enjoyed the S&W collection which included a "52".

 

[MisterHappy]

My point is that the businesses there are doing what, in their experience, is best for them. They've all heard the "Fast nickels is better than slow dimes," adage, but they have to come in twice as fast.

Now, when I"ve had a table, it was more of a yard sale, than a "real" vendor. In fact, one year I had the Mass DOR ask for my tax ID. I told him that I was there as my table's contents were not going to go over on the front lawn, in the PRM. DOR guy agreed and went away.

So...dealer has to rent tables (IIRC $75 per table), probably pay for power and Internet, and pay for the employees' time, as well as their own. Plus the travel time, set up and break-down.

I'm not pleading poormouth for the dealers, but a business will do their best to make a buck. If selling cheap was the way to go, they would, I'd guess.

As for building business, if they're local, I'll go there, anyways. If they're from East Treestump, I'll see them at the show. With the exception of some specialty items, it's all just a commodity. In fact, I needed some High Standard parts. I could have gone to the show, and asked the Schlitz Hat guy, and wandered around, and maybe found what I needed, or not. Or, gone online and ordered what I needed. Internet won.

 

[RG Sports]

If you use the rifle sling as butt floss you can’t return it.

 

[drgrant]

My point is that the businesses there are doing what, in their experience, is best for them. They've all heard the "Fast nickels is better than slow dimes," adage, but they have to come in twice as fast.

Now, when I"ve had a table, it was more of a yard sale, than a "real" vendor. In fact, one year I had the Mass DOR ask for my tax ID. I told him that I was there as my table's contents were not going to go over on the front lawn, in the PRM. DOR guy agreed and went away.

So...dealer has to rent tables (IIRC $75 per table), probably pay for power and Internet, and pay for the employees' time, as well as their own. Plus the travel time, set up and break-down.

I'm not pleading poormouth for the dealers, but a business will do their best to make a buck. If selling cheap was the way to go, they would, I'd guess.

As for building business, if they're local, I'll go there, anyways. If they're from East Treestump, I'll see them at the show. With the exception of some specialty items, it's all just a commodity. In fact, I needed some High Standard parts. I could have gone to the show, and asked the Schlitz Hat guy, and wandered around, and maybe found what I needed, or not. Or, gone online and ordered what I needed. Internet won.

The fun thing about gun shows is the normal B&M dealers that don't go just stay open and don't bother going through all the trouble (and serious expense) of moving their shit to a gun show... because a lot of people go to the shows, get pissed, and end up coming to their store later on anyways. So they still "win" anyways. (anyone here want to bet that gun store traffic goes up on "gun show saturday" in MA?

 

[Len-2A Training]

The fun thing about gun shows is the normal B&M dealers that don't go just stay open and don't bother going through all the trouble (and serious expense) of moving their shit to a gun show... because a lot of people go to the shows, get pissed, and end up coming to their store later on anyways. So they still "win" anyways. (anyone here want to bet that gun store traffic goes up on "gun show saturday" in MA?

That's the way it worked for me. In 1998, I went to the gun show in Wilmington, didn't find a standard AR-15 and then drove to AG Guns in Lowell (never knew about Four Seasons) and overpaid for my first AR-15.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Since it's a great opportunity for sellers to gain some new customers, why not try to gain some by offering discounted prices. It's a target rich environment for vendors.

The prevailing thinking seems to be "with this many people, someone will pay full retail in cash".

The most interesting tables were the 'Negan Bat" table, and the guy selling fittings to mount fuel filters on the front of guns. I don't really understand the concept, unless the idea was to shoot a round through the filter and end up with a 10 year felony in the process. I asked if these worked as silencers and got a well scripted "We have done no testing, we are selling these for training purposes". Yeah, and you probably also know a Nigerian price with a strongbox full of cash.

 

[greencobra]

i have a table a some shows. i remember at one of the wilmington shows last year, the guy at the table next to me claimed his income was approaching 6 figures just following the circuit doing a gun show a weekend. not shabby if true and he wasn't even selling gun stuff. was from ohio and only went back when he needed to restock the trailer. i'm guessing he didn't like being around the wife much.

 

[rep308]

ban Nazi crap, especially the cheap repro crap

 

[Dennis in MA]

No lines??? ROFL!!!!! Yeah. Selling tickets online will solve the line. I got in line at 8:25 on Sat. I was at the end of the building. By 9am it was 3x as long. Sure. That online ticket thing is gonna save a lot of line-standing.

Dress code???

Lower prices???

Required selling stuff to get a table?????

On a gun forum. Honestly. I'm disappointed in all of you.

I've got one recommendation:

For the MA shows specifically, the show putter-togetherer knows what tables are busy and which aren't. They need to widen the lanes on either side of these dealers. You get Tombstone and a few others that you can't even walk by because people are 3-deep looking at handguns. Make that row 1.5x wide and people can get by.

As far as getting pissy because they have to add $11 to the cost of whatever they buy or that people are selling things more expensive than they should - that is what the free market is all about. I'll still go. I'll still pay $11. At least 2x a year. Just to wander around, kill a Saturday morning, (fwiw, what's a movie cost these days? $13?) and maybe find something I need or want. You never know.

I saw only 2 or 3 Sig P320's there. And all were north of $600. But you know what? I got to handle at one dealer the P320, a S&W Shield and a Glock (2nd gen) at the same time to get a sense of what each felt like right after the other. I'm a Glock guy, but it was great to feel the P320 AND the Glock. JUST holding a P320 wouldn't give you the compare-contrast like side-by-side does. And while the Shield is nice, It just wansn't my cup of tea. Seemed worth $11.

I can't tell you the last time I left a show feeling like I accomplished something. Maybe 4-5 years??? I kept going anyhow. Because it's about seeing friends, wandering around, avoiding the crazy-holster accosting guy and the crazy earplug guy and a few others, getting some great food afterwards and POSSIBLY finding something you wouldn't find anywhere.

Oh, my find was a 1918 Trench Knife. Good condition. Still had it's ears. Check off that box.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

MrHappy, Mr. Schlitz hat was right where he always is but he didn't have anything in a High Standard that I saw. I love my Supermatic Citation and am always on the lookout for magazines.

Rob, I hear the oil filter guy tell a clueless prospect that it was to safely recycle any residual oil in the barrel left from cleaning..... [ROTFL]

 

[MisterHappy]

Schlitz Hat is one of constants of the Universe like Pi, and "C"

 

[enbloc]

I would not call it a "Gun Show", I'd call it a "Transfer Event".

It would be:
~Held at my gun club (or your gun club. The more clubs the better.)
~Offer tables for free to members, non-members $15
~$5 entry (for anyone except Senior Citizens, kids under 16)
~Once you receive your table, you can display as many legal firearms as the table will hold.(cutting a 2x4 for support under the center of the table IS allowed.)
~Internet access provided to aid in EFA10 processing.
~Table and entry fees go to the Club.

Now here is the kicker:
~You can only sell as many firearms as you have left on your "annual allowance" of 4 private sales.
~It is YOUR responsibility to ensure all laws are followed, not the club or the organizers.
~It could be held the last week of December and the First week of January. (so, 8 potential sales/transfers in a two week period. Still YOUR responsibility to track your sales.)
~Displayed firearms will be "cleared" by event staff and actions will be zip-tied. Personally carried handguns are of no concern. Anyone who ND's will be pistol-whipped with a Ruger Blackhawk .30cal.

No Law Enforcement except those buying/selling.
~Why? Because we are adults damn it.

 

[KBCraig]

OK, 24 posts about shows by people who (other than Boudrie) were probably not there. Marlborough had a pretty good turn-out yesterday and there were actually some things for sale at market prices.

The OP didn't mention any particular show.

 

[Snora]

Why are so many people excited to give free/discounted entry to the elderly?

 

[enbloc]

Why are so many people excited to give free/discounted entry to the elderly?

One word. Fixed Income.

Fine. If the elderly have to pay, so don't them little booger-slingers!

 

[drgrant]

My point is that the businesses there are doing what, in their experience, is best for them. They've all heard the "Fast nickels is better than slow dimes," adage, but they have to come in twice as fast.

Now, when I"ve had a table, it was more of a yard sale, than a "real" vendor. In fact, one year I had the Mass DOR ask for my tax ID. I told him that I was there as my table's contents were not going to go over on the front lawn, in the PRM. DOR guy agreed and went away.

So...dealer has to rent tables (IIRC $75 per table), probably pay for power and Internet, and pay for the employees' time, as well as their own. Plus the travel time, set up and break-down.

I'm not pleading poormouth for the dealers, but a business will do their best to make a buck. If selling cheap was the way to go, they would, I'd guess.

As for building business, if they're local, I'll go there, anyways. If they're from East Treestump, I'll see them at the show. With the exception of some specialty items, it's all just a commodity. In fact, I needed some High Standard parts. I could have gone to the show, and asked the Schlitz Hat guy, and wandered around, and maybe found what I needed, or not. Or, gone online and ordered what I needed. Internet won.

The tables costing $75 or whatever it is is a huge deterrent, IMHO. If the tables were even 10-20 bucks cheaper they could actually fill venues again and attract more dealers to come. More competition means better pricing
and higher show attendance. Back in the day when there were a bare minimum of two HUGE ammo vendors at a show and maybe a third smaller one, they would actually compete on price for commonly sold ammo. Now maybe one big ammo vendor shows up and 2 if hell freezes over.

One reason for the high prices though is the gun show market actually validates it periodically. If I make $100 off one gun in 15 minutes of BS that's time better spent than trying to sell 4 guns @ $25 profit each.

Also the promoter "glee club" shit has to stop, the promoters horseshit alone in MA has driven a lot of
dealers away. I saw dealers get absolutely boned by the promoter in terms of table placement,
etc. A dealer might throw down for an end which is like 8-10 tables (full of stuff , mind you) and the shitbag
promoter would site them in a stupid location in the facility despite previous arrangements... but what is the dealer going to do? Go through all that trouble and not unpack their shit after they packed it all up and lugged it to the
show? Nope... they're just going to roll and accept their lot. Usually the deal is some other vendors are either given prime spots in exchange for a bribe or something else, who knows... but its pretty obvious that if you're not on the glee club "in" crowd of dealers they will just site you wherever, even if it's the shittiest position in the building.

-Mike

 

[Shawnyc]

No vaping and/or spitting.

 

[greencobra]

I've always thought that there should be a ticket buying option of getting a 2 day admission for a discounted price. last time I was a paid admission it was 12 bucks? maybe you could buy a 2 day for say $17. that would be 1/2 off the 2nd day.

 

[Jason Flare]

Why are so many people excited to give free/discounted entry to the elderly?

I think the elderly should be charged more. They’ve had their whole lives to become successful in the greatest country on earth.

 

[Dennis in MA]

The tables costing $75 or whatever it is is a huge deterrent, IMHO. If the tables were even 10-20 bucks cheaper they could actually fill venues again and attract more dealers to come. More competition means better pricing
and higher show attendance. Back in the day when there were a bare minimum of two HUGE ammo vendors at a show and maybe a third smaller one, they would actually compete on price for commonly sold ammo. Now maybe one big ammo vendor shows up and 2 if hell freezes over.

One reason for the high prices though is the gun show market actually validates it periodically. If I make $100 off one gun in 15 minutes of BS that's time better spent than trying to sell 4 guns @ $25 profit each.

Also the promoter "glee club" shit has to stop, the promoters horseshit alone in MA has driven a lot of
dealers away. I saw dealers get absolutely boned by the promoter in terms of table placement,
etc. A dealer might throw down for an end which is like 8-10 tables (full of stuff , mind you) and the shitbag
promoter would site them in a stupid location in the facility despite previous arrangements... but what is the dealer going to do? Go through all that trouble and not unpack their shit after they packed it all up and lugged it to the
show? Nope... they're just going to roll and accept their lot. Usually the deal is some other vendors are either given prime spots in exchange for a bribe or something else, who knows... but its pretty obvious that if you're not on the glee club "in" crowd of dealers they will just site you wherever, even if it's the shittiest position in the building.

-Mike

I can't see $20 enticing anyone to go to a show. You either think it's worth it or not. If you walk away from a couple-thousand in sales. . . . or even a couple hundred. . . . for $20, you don't understand maths.

No vaping and/or spitting.

What if I carry around my own urinal???

I've always thought that there should be a ticket buying option of getting a 2 day admission for a discounted price. last time I was a paid admission it was 12 bucks? maybe you could buy a 2 day for say $17. that would be 1/2 off the 2nd day.

People go twice?? Wow. I don't think I've even ever done the "damn I shoulda bought that yesterday" race back. Anything that was at a decent price was bought by me or someone else on Saturday. Anything that's readily available and at a good price at a show is a unicorn or can be had similar-priced at gun shops across the state.

I think the elderly should be charged more. They’ve had their whole lives to become successful in the greatest country on earth.

Plus they get in the way. GET OUT OF MY WAY, GRAMPS! I'VE GOT JERKY TO EAT, EARS TO CUSTOM-PLUG AND RUBBER BAND GUNS TO BUY!!!!

 

[greencobra]

People go twice?? Wow. I don't think I've even ever done the "damn I shoulda bought that yesterday" race back.

lots come back the second day. speaking as one who's worked tables at some shows you'd be surprised the number of folks who come for both days. do enough of them and you start to recognize most of the crowd. vendors complain "it's the same old people" while customers cry "its the same old vendors as last time." a vicious circle, prices too high at the tables and customers leave their money at home.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I'm so damned tired from the first day. Maybe if it was a HUGE show that you couldn't see in a single day. (Not in Massachusetts. LOL)

What does amaze me is the guys that carry the same stuff show to show, year after year. Always overpriced. Same gun sitting there for a long long long long long time. NEVER see anyone buying anything from these guys. I guess SOMEBODY must be buying. Or they are masochists. Or maybe both.

 

[drgrant]

I can't see $20 enticing anyone to go to a show. You either think it's worth it or not. If you walk away from a couple-thousand in sales. . . . or even a couple hundred. . . . for $20, you don't understand maths.

I guess I suck at trying to make my point... lol... Let's put it this way... say you buy 8 tables at the typical $75 rate, that's like $600 just to go to the show as a dealer. If they reduced the table rates or did something different, they'd get more dealers to actually fill these places. They ain't doing that at this point (to the best of my knowledge). Or they should have a tiered structure for fees and placement. The promoters are making a killing at these things and just punishing the
dealers and the attendees. One huge problem with these shows from the vendor POV is even if the attendance is shitty it still costs the dealer the same $ to set
up. So fees can be a serious deterrent if you end up with a shit show. If I ever won the lottery I'd probably start a small firm that competes with these pricks and start some new gun shows in MA and elsewhere. More people need to be lured back to the shows not treated like shit. It kinda reminds me of some bars and restaurants where they allow their quality to slide back a few clicks because they can get enough business off the blow in customers or seagulls etc that are content to settle for "good enough". The promoters just strut around acting surly because they know you don't have a choice to go somewhere else.


-Mike

 

[LuvDog]

Some people like to make the return trip to try and buy things they saw on the first day. But try to haggle for a discount that last day closing discount

I would say that last minute deal doesnt happen much anymore though. Most vendors seem to be happy to pack up their stuff and schlep it around over and over again. It used to be that they were more willing to cut costs at closing

 

[drgrant]

People go twice?? Wow. I don't think I've even ever done the "damn I shoulda bought that yesterday" race back. Anything that was at a decent price was bought by me or someone else on Saturday. Anything that's readily available and at a good price at a show is a unicorn or can be had similar-priced at gun shops across the state.

I think I might have gone back on a Sunday once (back in the "good old days" of gun shows, like 10+ years ago) other than when I was working the shows.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I would say that last minute deal doesnt happen much anymore though. Most vendors seem to be happy to pack up their stuff and schlep it around over and over again. It used to be that they were more willing to cut costs at closing

Part of the problem is about 90% of the end of the show offers are far more insulting than even the during show skinflint offers. Like I remember guys that would come up to the booth I worked in and they'd be trying to offer you $300 for a new gun that has a gunbroker low of like $450ish, its just full on retardation. If you
can get to the dealer before the retards like that get to him and piss him off, you might have a chance.

Timing is also important. Dealers are loathe to sell anything to a non FFL at 4pm unless they're getting their price for it. (another FFL has an advantage- 2 minute
transfer instead of a 10 minute+ one. )

Of course you're probably often referencing the guys with the tables full of relatively unregulated junk. Like I saw one guy that literally toted around a 40 round AK mag for like 2 years that was basically like $10 too expensive. (he had it listed for like 45 bucks or some horseshit). If he had lowered it to $30 someone would
have still overpaid for it and bought it.. and he wouldnt have had to lug it around for 2 years, either. LMAO. Those guys are just on their own planet, and I don't think I'll ever understand them, lmao.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I've always thought that there should be a ticket buying option of getting a 2 day admission for a discounted price. last time I was a paid admission it was 12 bucks? maybe you could buy a 2 day for say $17. that would be 1/2 off the 2nd day.

I'd be up for a VIP ticket thats like $20 and gets you in early on Friday night after setup, like 7-9 pm. capped number of tickets. Or pay another $5 on top of
that and get in all 3 days. That kind of thing would never happen with these shitbird promoters though.

-Mike

 

[enbloc]

lots come back the second day...

I went twice once... once.

 

[drgrant]

I think the elderly should be charged more. They’ve had their whole lives to become successful in the greatest country on earth.

Also they seem to have the market corned on flatulence, I bet its about 60% of the unrepentant gun show cropdusters are above 78. The BO crew though is pretty well distributed by age, though.

 

[greencobra]

I'd be up for a VIP ticket thats like $20 and gets you in early on Friday night after setup, like 7-9 pm. capped number of tickets. Or pay another $5 on top of
that and get in all 3 days. That kind of thing would never happen with these shitbird promoters though.

-Mike

problem with that is not too many vendors want to hang around after they set up on friday. set up doors open @ 3, a lot of vendors take 3+ hours to unpack and get their displays in order. they don't want to hang around, they want to relax, sit someplace, grab dinner and head for wherever the're staying. vendors who need all the allotted time to set up, until 9, don't want people under foot. and i'm sure it's a safety issue with the house also. a lot of traffic involving a couple of fork trucks. it's non-stop. if you've ever seen the safe and ammo vendors moving in you'll know what i mean.