If I move out of the Commiewealth, does my LTC really become expired/invalid?

[Anubis]

Thinking about moving to St. Louis this summer.

I can't seem to find anything in the MGL's that invalidates my (recently renewed) LTC if I move out-of-state, as long as I comply with the address change notice requirement. I also don't see anything that says a police chief can't issue an LTC to a non-resident who has a business in town (which I'll be keeping my business in operation but managing it remotely). I know the State Police issues "regular" LTC's to retired troopers who live out of state and can't find any provision in the MGL's that allows/prohibits that either.

Anyone have first-hand knowledge/experience with this? I read in some earlier searching that Jason Guida mentioned at some point that if someone provides a change of address which is out-of-state that they will "administratively expire" the LTC but I can't find that thread again!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, they will administratively expire a LTC when advised that you moved outside MA.

However, you are entitled to keep the LTC as a Business Owner in MA, so why not change the address to the business address and include that info in your letter to IA and FRB?

 

[JNP24]

LenS, what if you move but don't own a business? Sorry to threadjack, but I hope to be moving to a free state soon and will still be working for the family business in MA

 

[Len-2A Training]

NR LTC only in that case, with all the hassle and expense associated.

 

[drgrant]

NR LTC only in that case, with all the hassle and expense associated.

Course it depends on the local PDs interpretation of "business owner". I would bet nearly anything that there are people in MA running on that exemption that may not necessarily be business owners.

Ironically enough the OP could become a "business owner" by having one of the actual owners somehow give him some shares of the "company" if it's incorporated somehow.

-Mike

 

[waltherlover]

I think it's important to note here - and there's some controversy surrounding this - when you move out of the commiewealth, you still need to send notification letters to the CHSB (whatever they are called now), the town where you hold your LTC, and potentially the town you are moving into in NH.

If you don't do this, and somehow end up cursed and back in the Commiewealth, they may deny you a resident LTC because you didn't provide the notification. Please note the part that says certified mail.

Chapter 140, Section 131(L) reads as follows:

<snip>
Any licensee shall notify, in writing, the licensing authority who issued said license, the chief of police into whose jurisdiction the licensee moves and the executive director of the criminal history systems board of any change of address. Such notification shall be made by certified mail within 30 days of its occurrence. Failure to so notify shall be cause for revocation or suspension of said license.

Can be found here:
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131

Glad to hear you are moving to a free state - Good Luck!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yes, they will administratively expire a LTC when advised that you moved outside MA.

This is true, however, despite assurances from members of the NES hive, nobody has been able to offer any statute or case law that establishes that a license a former resident holds, and that was not expired, because (s)he never reported the move is algorithmically expired or revoked. (ie, moves into that status without any action on the part of the FRB or licensing authority). According to a plain reading of the law, it takes an action to expire a license.

What is beneficial to the subject who moved is that the state considers the act of administratively terminating a license to be "expiring" it, unless it is a for cause suspension of revocation. Under MGL this means that the gun owner has a lifetime protection against criminal prosecution for unlicensed possession/carry unless (s) has applied for a renewal and been denied; become a prohibited person under state law; or had the license revoked for any reason other than failure to file a change of address.

What is more interesting is that the concept of revoking an expired license may not exist - thus assuring that the protection afforded by an expired license can be invoked multiple times, assuming the individual has sufficient funds to legal counsel and the fine if applied. I know that arrests have been made of persons with expired LTCs, and the prosecutors were not happy when the FRB advised them that the defense claim the expired LTC protected them was indeed accurate.'

It is for this reason that police departments are advised to maintain copies of all denied LTC applications. When someone is arrested for a ch 269 violation and claims a defense based on an expired LTC, the hunt for a denied application begins.

 

[Duece]

And this is why to THIS day, I STILL have the certified returns from when I sent mine in when moving out of the state in 2002

I think it's important to note here - and there's some controversy surrounding this - when you move out of the commiewealth, you still need to send notification letters to the CHSB (whatever they are called now), the town where you hold your LTC, and potentially the town you are moving into in NH.

If you don't do this, and somehow end up cursed and back in the Commiewealth, they may deny you a resident LTC because you didn't provide the notification. Please note the part that says certified mail.

Chapter 140, Section 131(L) reads as follows:

<snip>
Any licensee shall notify, in writing, the licensing authority who issued said license, the chief of police into whose jurisdiction the licensee moves and the executive director of the criminal history systems board of any change of address. Such notification shall be made by certified mail within 30 days of its occurrence. Failure to so notify shall be cause for revocation or suspension of said license.

Can be found here:
General Laws: CHAPTER 140, Section 131

Glad to hear you are moving to a free state - Good Luck!

 

[ninemilshooter]

This is true, however, despite assurances from members of the NES hive, nobody has been able to offer any statute or case law that establishes that a license a former resident holds, and that was not expired, because (s)he never reported the move is algorithmically expired or revoked. (ie, moves into that status without any action on the part of the FRB or licensing authority). According to a plain reading of the law, it takes an action to expire a license.

What is beneficial to the subject who moved is that the state considers the act of administratively terminating a license to be "expiring" it, unless it is a for cause suspension of revocation. Under MGL this means that the gun owner has a lifetime protection against criminal prosecution for unlicensed possession/carry unless (s) has applied for a renewal and been denied; become a prohibited person under state law; or had the license revoked for any reason other than failure to file a change of address.

What is more interesting is that the concept of revoking an expired license may not exist - thus assuring that the protection afforded by an expired license can be invoked multiple times, assuming the individual has sufficient funds to legal counsel and the fine if applied. I know that arrests have been made of persons with expired LTCs, and the prosecutors were not happy when the FRB advised them that the defense claim the expired LTC protected them was indeed accurate.'

It is for this reason that police departments are advised to maintain copies of all denied LTC applications. When someone is arrested for a ch 269 violation and claims a defense based on an expired LTC, the hunt for a denied application begins.

I had to read that several times (I won't tell you how many), but if I understand this correctly then it is to our benefit to have our LTC's administratively expired and that they are not "revoked" because it is not possible to do so. Since I'm moving out of state this is of particular interest to me.

It also sounds like this "protection" is a loophole in the law and only helps you avoid jail and not an arrest.

This is good information!

 

[Len-2A Training]

I think it's important to note here - and there's some controversy surrounding this - when you move out of the commiewealth, you still need to send notification letters to the CHSB (whatever they are called now), the town where you hold your LTC, and potentially the town you are moving into in NH.

I totally Disagree with the bolded part. No NH town will care or keep any such notice. There is no need to notify a non-MA locality and MGL (in spite of many attempts) authority ends at the border of the state! You only need to send 2 Certified letters in this case - FRB and Issuing Authority.

 

[MisterHappy]

I'd be with LenS - the NH cops care not, but the CoP in a new Mass town "needs" to be informed that another Gun Nut with a cache, or possibly an arsenal, has arrived.