If an employer's policy says No Firearms in the building. Can I legally Conceal Carry?

Yes, this is Massachusetts. Where a hot take that has no basis in reality can be the accepted narrative in perpetuity. Just have to have the right spin and hype man.

The second half, is interesting, as if I recall correctly from my limited research into internet pages (read: not reliable) if police have reasonable suspicion you are carrying a firearm, they can search you in MA. Would someone else touching something hard in my pants (giggity) and telling an officer be a reasonable suspicion?
If your employer calls up and says “I think an employee has a gun”, the responding officer is going to do a Terry frisk. Once he touches a gun through your clothes, then he’s got positive cause to do a full search.

 
You guys are basically saucing up a yarn out of nothing, an employer doesn't need pc or rs or the cops to fire you, assuming at will employment etc.

That's what we do all day here. Sometimes its for shits and/or giggles. Sometimes it's serious what-if's. Sometimes it's just because the Jameson hit a little harder.
 
If your employer calls up and says “I think an employee has a gun”, the responding officer is going to do a Terry frisk. Once he touches a gun through your clothes, then he’s got positive cause to do a full search.

hmmm. Does this ordinary citizen's hearsay receive the same weight as a confidential informant? Like in the quoted case of Adams v Williams 1972?
 
hmmm. Does this ordinary citizen's hearsay receive the same weight as a confidential informant? Like in the quoted case of Adams v Williams 1972?
A cop needs very little probable cause to do a Terry Frisk. If a citizen calls the cops and says “I think an employee has a gun” they are going to respond and investigate. Since in this case you wouldn’t be doing anything illegal, no arrest would likely result. The main consequence for police of doing some form of search for which they do not have probable cause is that any evidence would not be admissible in court. But since no arrest, therefore no court case, so nothing to get tossed out.

Look, it is simple. If your company discovers that you are carrying outside of policy, they are going to fire you. It’s that simple. You can argue about what if unicorns fart skittles all day long, but you would still get fired.
 
I’ve never dropped a gun. I have, however, had a magazine in my pocket fall out when I crossed my legs. In another occasion, I’ve had a magazine carrier come off my belt.

I think it is unwise to think that the only way someone would spot your gun is if you had to draw it or you dropped it. I’ve had my cover garment ride up, exposing my gun.

I’m not saying that as a consequence you should not carry — that’s your decision. What I’m saying is that it might be more likely for someone to spot your gun than some might expect.
I was flying one time, heard a loud 'thunk' behind me. Had a moment or two of pucker factor as I slid my hand into my pocket where my spare mag was. Thankfully, it was still there. Maybe a FAM dropped his, but mine was right where it ought to be.
 
hmmm. Does this ordinary citizen's hearsay receive the same weight as a confidential informant? Like in the quoted case of Adams v Williams 1972?
Just my very informal knowledge, but CI's would be above a 'ordinary citizen' IF it's related to an investigation. CI's go in and swim with the fish, a normal person is just going to look at the aquarium.
 
A cop needs very little probable cause to do a Terry Frisk. If a citizen calls the cops and says “I think an employee has a gun” they are going to respond and investigate. Since in this case you wouldn’t be doing anything illegal, no arrest would likely result. The main consequence for police of doing some form of search for which they do not have probable cause is that any evidence would not be admissible in court. But since no arrest, therefore no court case, so nothing to get tossed out.

Look, it is simple. If your company discovers that you are carrying outside of policy, they are going to fire you. It’s that simple. You can argue about what if unicorns fart skittles all day long, but you would still get fired.
Terry is more 'reasonable suspicion'. I didn't Terry everyone I encountered, once I found something 'interesting', they got Terry'd. Depending on how 'interesting' it progressed to getting married, or let go.


Esposas: Esposa is wife, Esposas is handcuffs. Who says Hispanics don't have a sense of humor?
 
Thank God I was in Infantry Units until the end, no females. I'll never forget standing in the chow line in Basic at Ft. Benning, circa 1989, when a pregnant O4 walked by in maternity BDU's. As stated previously I was an old man of 33 yrs old and my Drill SGT, SSG. Saunders almost lost his mind. Later he went on an epic rant to me about women in the Army. [rofl] He was about my age.
Don't get me going on AF Officers and firearms when I was stationed/lived at Westover ARB for 2 yrs..
We also had a female LT at about week 12 of 16 weeks OBC course pass out giving one of the required briefings.......next few days she starts "falling out" of morning formations to go to the side and puke. By course graduation she didn't fit in her dress blues. We all knew who the father was lol.
 
Oh, sorry …. If the company has a “no guns” policy as a condition of employment, hire an attorney and fight! (Better?) 😁
You won't win!

I once faced off with the DEC corporate attorney/corporate secretary on this issue. He didn't give an inch. My argument was "what if" an employee who was also a sworn LEO, on a day off, came in uniform to pick up his paycheck. Answer was that he'd be fired! We had another employee who was also a sworn local LEO.
 
A cop needs very little probable cause to do a Terry Frisk.
A cop doesn't need probable cause at all to do a Terry Stop. Quoting the opinion:

We merely hold today that where a police officer observes unusual conduct which leads him reasonably to conclude in light of his experience that criminal activity may be afoot and that the persons with whom he is dealing may be armed and presently dangerous, where in the course of investigating this behavior he identifies himself as a policeman and makes reasonable inquiries, and where nothing in the initial stages of the encounter serves to dispel his reasonable fear for his own or others' safety, he is entitled for the protection of himself and others in the area to conduct a carefully limited search of the outer clothing of such persons in an attempt to discover weapons which might be used to assault him.
Note the "criminal activity may be afoot" language. Just saying, "I think an employee has a gun" is likely not enough for such a reasonable conclusion, but cops are very good at inventing "reasonable suspicion" on the stand.

If a citizen calls the cops and says “I think an employee has a gun” they are going to respond and investigate. Since in this case you wouldn’t be doing anything illegal, no arrest would likely result. The main consequence for police of doing some form of search for which they do not have probable cause is that any evidence would not be admissible in court. But since no arrest, therefore no court case, so nothing to get tossed out.
Evidence discovered in the course of a Terry Stop is admissible even without probable cause. In fact, that's exactly what happened to John W. Terry. He was found guilty of possessing a concealed weapon which was found during the pat-down.
 
You won't win!

I once faced off with the DEC corporate attorney/corporate secretary on this issue. He didn't give an inch. My argument was "what if" an employee who was also a sworn LEO, on a day off, came in uniform to pick up his paycheck. Answer was that he'd be fired! We had another employee who was also a sworn local LEO.

Nope, correct, only seeing if 1911 like this answer better than my earlier one saying what you did lol
 
The real test of the viability of any civil case is "can you get contingency fee counsel?".

If you find a contingency fee attorney willing to take a case for someone fired for being armed at work, point your cell cam up to get a video of the flock of pigs for NES.

The only exception might (emphasis might) be in a state where "gun secured in personal car on company premises" is a protected activity.
 
One word

Mucko

that building was just converted to housing.

I hope there are no ghosts

I knew cops that were first in the door that were NEVER the same after, and one was a cop I absolutely hated, but I would not have wished what he suffered thru ( PTSD) on anyone.

That building was just a few doors down from the frame shop, I was watching the noon news at the T on break and saw the coverage from the copters.

Mucko was waiting in the lobby with a weapon when the cops got in, he didn't raise the weapon, he was just sitting there waiting for them.

It was one of the few times that I didn't ask questions about what happened... I didn't need to know the details, although recently someone was telling me about the aftermath as they had been in the building. I still wish I had not heard the details 20+ years later.
 
that building was just converted to housing.

I hope there are no ghosts

I knew cops that were first in the door that were NEVER the same after, and one was a cop I absolutely hated, but I would not have wished what he suffered thru ( PTSD) on anyone.

That building was just a few doors down from the frame shop, I was watching the noon news at the T on break and saw the coverage from the copters.

Mucko was waiting in the lobby with a weapon when the cops got in, he didn't raise the weapon, he was just sitting there waiting for them.

It was one of the few times that I didn't ask questions about what happened... I didn't need to know the details, although recently someone was telling me about the aftermath as they had been in the building. I still wish I had not heard the details 20+ years later.
I knew one of the first paramedics on site, he had real trouble with it for years Too. The details he gave were also pretty horrible.
 
That's exactly how I think it would go down.

They wont even as you to strip.

They'll just say "lift up your t-shirt an inch so we can see if you have a gun".

That is no strip search.

If you refuse they'll know you are lying.
No, they will not.

The average person does not assume that everyone that has something somewhat hard has a gun. Could be a wallet, keys, cellphone ...

If you take a sexual harassment training, most will mention that even telling someone they look good is harassment.

So no, no one is going to pull you aside and ask you to lift anything or they risk getting fired. Technically you also risk getting fired, in what kind of office do you work that you bump into people, specially bump hard enough for them to feel a gun?

No need for the mental gymnastics and 750 different scenarios that will not happen in the average office.
 
You guys are basically saucing up a yarn out of nothing, an employer doesn't need pc or rs or the cops to fire you, assuming at will employment etc.
I am contacting Kimberly-Clark to become a Depend distributor. I will make a killing selling on NES. Too bad I didn't do it sooner, could have opened a store at the Mill. Buy your guns and your depends in the same place.
 
No, they will not.

The average person does not assume that everyone that has something somewhat hard has a gun. Could be a wallet, keys, cellphone ...

If you take a sexual harassment training, most will mention that even telling someone they look good is harassment.

So no, no one is going to pull you aside and ask you to lift anything or they risk getting fired. Technically you also risk getting fired, in what kind of office do you work that you bump into people, specially bump hard enough for them to feel a gun?

No need for the mental gymnastics and 750 different scenarios that will not happen in the average office.
In the average office nobody rubs into each other.

I need to keep OPSEC but in my job we work side by side.

It would be Joe Biden's dream job.

The only reason I lasted so long there is because I act appropriately with the ladies.

That means no sexual harassment on any level or any innuendo or meddling in the affairs of the ladies.

It's not a school or a place where there is hugging or anything like that.

There is also lots of bending and body motion where "printing" would be obvious to anybody.
 
Back when I first got my (restricted) LTC, I worked at an office where most of the people were, at best, ambivalent about guns, but my boss carried every day. The office did not explicitly have a no-gun policy. He was the first one to ever tell me "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Today I work at a super lefty office building and they don't have anything regarding firearms in their policies nor any signs on the entrances. I think it's possible that they wouldn't even consider that someone would carry there because of how uber-lefty/yuppie it is so it sort of flies under the radar. And my coworkers know I'm a gun guy but they've never asked me if I carry to work. I suppose from their perspective it's "don't ask questions you don't want the answer to." :p
 
My Co has a “No weapons” sign on the door. I and many(most) of the guys I work with carry a knife, as we would everywhere else everyday. I wouldn’t take my chances with a gun though.
 
It’s open to interpretation, worst case scenario is you lose your job which may not be that bad.

I have abided by the policy, but I get to walk around the metal detectors… I’ve also only had three people make physical contact with me and I’ve yet to have to pull knife or slugs out of my leg, at this job Which tends to happen way too often other places. it’s not exactly the most dangerous environment.
 
When I worked in Connecticut my company had a no firearms policy. That meant not even locked in your car as well. People were terminated for violating their policy, no second chances one and done
 
Curious if an employer can prevent me from protecting myself.
i worked second shift in a small anti gun company located in a isolated 495 area and another one under the same situation. there were only few other employees present and always suspicious outside night time activity going on. i quietly carried a smith j frame ti-lite with a few speed loaders in both places, nobody knew and never got caught, concealed means concealed
 
Back
Top Bottom