IDPA vs USPSA

SA John

Banned
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
717
Likes
61
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
Have never shot either of these two events but have been reading other's posts about them. Is IDPA the more popular style of action shooting in New England? I've only shot PPC back in the late 70s and some handgun silhouette in the early 80s. Recently I've become hooked on bowling pins. Am curious about the other games. (no interest at all in Cowboy Nonsense shooting, even though I love single-action revolvers)

SA John
 
SA John, I would say that USPSA is more popular hands down than IDPA. the membership numbers prove that. In New England we have a huge USPSA following. Either way you'll have a ton of fun and learn a lot. The USPSA and IDPA guys have different views on things but as long as you're shooting it's a good thing.

Pete
 
Here's just a sampling of offerings in the Eastern MA area. Lots of options... why limit yourself to just one? Some like both (ME) and some only like one or the other. What ever suits your fancy.

Harvard has both IDPA/USPSA
Worcester has IDPA
Riverside has IDPA
Pelham, NH has IDPA
New Bedford has IDPA, USPSA
Bass River has IDPA, USPSA
 
It seems that they are both growing. The Northeast Section for USPSA listed 7 matches for April alone. Harvard alone had 85 shooters last weekend for a monthly match. Personally, I think it hurts IDPA that there isn't an up to date regional match schedule page like that.

You can go to USPSA.org and under "Additional Content" on the left you can see "Classifiers By State" to see actual USPSA member populations by state. MA has 241.

Try both. They are just different spins on putting lead downrange.
 
I like both games. Generally speaking, IDPA favors accuracy and USPSA favors speed. That's not 100% all the time but you get the idea.

If you drop a lot of points in IDPA, it hurts... a lot. In USPSA, if you've got decent accuracy, speed can cover up a few dropped points here and there. But still, if you drop a lot of points or have a few misses - it still hurts... a lot.

You don’t need to spend a lot of cash on equipment. You can shoot a Glock 17 and shoot SSP in IDPA and Production in USPSA. You can use the exact same equipment for both (however in USPSA you can have more than 2 mags on your belt, and you’ll need ‘em). Same goes for a 1911 – CDP in IDPA and Single Stack in USPSA.

For me, IDPA makes me more accurate and USPSA makes me faster. Both are good skills to have and they translate well to both games. Play them both - you won't regret it.
 
I Take Pin Shooting over Either of Them

Like in most all gunfights involving handguns:

It is over in less than five seconds.

It is best done with open-sighted, large-caliber handguns shooting heavy, powerful bullets.

The range is 8 meters.

Only very accurate hits count.

The shooter stands his/her ground.

It is by far the best test of basic combat handgun shooting.

Come to Chester Gun Club on 20Apr08 to see how it is done.
 
Last edited:
Nah, Idpa favors RULES over either speed or accuracy
The drafters of their rule book believe there is only one right way to do anything.

"DrafterS of their rule book?"

You mean someone OTHER than Bill Wilson actually had some input? [devil]

Speaking of, if you actually want to have some - as in, VOTE for the organization's officers - you want USPSA. IDPA won't let you.
 
"DrafterS of their rule book?"

You mean someone OTHER than Bill Wilson actually had some input? [devil]

Speaking of, if you actually want to have some - as in, VOTE for the organization's officers - you want USPSA. IDPA won't let you.


True, so true. IDPA is the creation of Bill Wilson, and the rule book was drafted with his business in mind. Just check out how much a shooter can modify his custom defense pistol. It falls right in with the .45 ACP M1911 work that Wilson has specialized in from the beginning.
 
I've started reading the USPSA rulebook as I want to give it a try, and it has the opposite problem from IDPA. I agree that the IDPA rulebook is Bill Wilson's prejudices through and through. The USPSA rulebook on the other hand was very clearly written by a committee.

People say IDPA is more rules driven, but after one quick read through the rulebook, I was ready to shoot a match and I knew how to do all the scoring myself. I still haven't fully figured out USPSA scoring. I think it's one of those things I'll have to see in action to really internalize.
 
I still haven't fully figured out USPSA scoring. I think it's one of those things I'll have to see in action to really internalize.

That isn't unusual. USPSA hit factor scoring isn't as simple as IDPA time plus scoring. However, I believe that what the hit factor scoring gives you is worth that extra step it takes to grasp in that it provides a greater picture of how the stages are shot and performance. You can read more of a story of the match and shooters from a USPSA score sheet once you learn how. It's a dynamic game that benefits from the results providing that much info.

The core of the system is points per second or hit factor (HF). Each stage has a points value based on the number of required shots on the stage. Within the match, winning a stages means posting the highest HF and winning all the points value for that stage. Shoot a HF 50% of the winner of the stage and you only get half the points. Shoot 90% of that HHF and get 90% of the points. Taking all the points accumulated from each stage creates the final scores. Don't worry about having shot a Production gun vs an Open race gun, official scores are divided by division. Taking that into account, in a quick glance you can see what the stages were like without seeing them, as well as how each shooter performed relative to their division, their class, or across the whole field (which can be interesting).

Something really interesting is that you can go to www.uspsa.org and look at results from something like last years Nationals and see what Rob Leatham's or Todd Jarretts's scores were, not only where they finished but times and what their individual A, B, C, and D counts were for each stage. Seeing those results will actually steer how you approach the game. I read results like I'm watching SportsCenter.

If you have any questions, shoot. I'm kind of into it.
 
Last edited:
That isn't unusual. USPSA hit factor scoring isn't as simple as IDPA time plus scoring...
I don't know, even after reading all that I'm still confused. It's been a couple of years now and I still can't quite figure out the USPSA scoring system. One thing I can tell you is that it doesn't really matter. Show up, shoot the match, have lots of fun, and then check out the standings when they come out just to see how you did. You don't need to understand the scoring to shoot a match and have fun.
-Cuz.
 
I've started reading the USPSA rulebook as I want to give it a try, and it has the opposite problem from IDPA. I agree that the IDPA rulebook is Bill Wilson's prejudices through and through. The USPSA rulebook on the other hand was very clearly written by a committee.

People say IDPA is more rules driven, but after one quick read through the rulebook, I was ready to shoot a match and I knew how to do all the scoring myself. I still haven't fully figured out USPSA scoring. I think it's one of those things I'll have to see in action to really internalize.


USPSA scoring is very easy to figure out, shoot as many "A's" as fast as you can, don't worry about anything else. what I like about USPSA, is that, if I can find a better way to shoot a stage, I am rewarded for it, not penalized
 
USPSA scoring is very easy to figure out, shoot as many "A's" as fast as you can, don't worry about anything else. what I like about USPSA, is that, if I can find a better way to shoot a stage, I am rewarded for it, not penalized

Well....

I'd say that IDPA scoring is very easy to figure out, shoot as many "0's" as fast as you can, and don't worry about much of anything else. [wink]

I will say that USPSA matches certainly trend towards more flexibility in the way you shoot a stage this is not always the case. But in general I'd agree. This may have something to do with IDPA only allowing 18 max required shots per stage while USPSA is much higher I believe. USPSA also tends to use more steel than IDPA- IDPA has strict requirements limiting the excessive use of steel.

If you read the books that are on the respective websites you can see there is really much more. For example IDPA requires all guns in all divisions to be limited to no more than a total of 11 rounds- USPSA has different restrictions in different divisions. USPSA allows (in Open Division) red dot sights and compensated guns.... these don't exist in IDPA.

If you break it down there are lots of differences but they are more similar than different in IMHO.

One last thing to mention for someone wanting to give it a go. Regardless of which you try out- the PEOPLE are what makes the sport the most fun and the folks are awesome in both groups. Helpful, supportive and just damn good people. I won't enjoy either IDPA or USPSA if the people weren't so outwardly friendly and helpful.
 
These threads usually turn into bashing of one sport or another and I usually stay out of them.

I shoot both sports and have invested the time and energy to become a NROI certified RO and an IDPA certified Safety Officer and Safety Officer Instructor. I shoot both sports poorly but I have a good time. In USPSA I will never become classified in the Open Division because it does not serve my purposes. I marvel at those that do it and do it well but it is not for me.

IDPA was the brain child of not just Bill Wilson but of a group. Bill Wilson stepped up and put up a big chunk of change to get it going. Smith & Wesson was right there too but to a lesser degree.

Bill Wilson was an accomplished IPSC shooter but felt that the "P" in USPSA was becoming a little foggy so he decided to put up instead of shut up. I think some of what he wrote was a little bit of bashing, but he paid for it so he can say what he wants I guess.

IDPA is a privately owned corporation. When you join you agree to go by their rules. If you don't like it, you have the option of not shooting and not renewing your membership.

USPSA is more of a member owned company where you have a limited say through your elected area rep. If you don't like how he votes, you don't vote for him or you can even run against him. We are very lucky in Area 7 to have a very good rep in Rob. (Thanks Rob) All areas seem to have good representation by hard working people.

Since IDPA was started from USPSA, there are similarities but since the founding group was dissatisfied with USPSA, there are also differences.

USPSA has higher round counts, more open shooting, and is a much faster paced sport. IDPA is a limited round count type sport which is geared to every day carry type equipment. Some look at it as "Real World" I am not that naive. It is not real world unless the targets shoot back. USPSA saw a loss of revenue from those shooting IDPA in the CDP and SSP divisions so they filled the need by developing the Production division and the Single Stack division. Smart move as far as I am concerned and a good way to let everyone shoot both sports.

The best way top decide which or both are for you is to play the games. Not just one time, but three or four each. The match fee for USPSA includes a stipend to headquarters so you are contributing to USPSA by shooting the match. IDPA requires membership after one match because there is no other funds sent by the shooter. With either sport you are paying. IDPA wants their money up front (It is that private business idea again)

Either way you look at it, you get to spend time with a great bunch of like minded people doing what you all enjoy. I have made friends from all over the country playing these games and I have never regretted any time on the range even with my poor scores [wink]

Edit to add: If anyone would like to try either sport in the Production division or the revolver division (SSP ESR or SSR in IDPA) I will make this offer. If you are experienced enough to attend a match here on Cape Cod and don't think you have the right gear, I will let you use mine for a match. If you have never tried either and you are not sure you dare, I will give you a hand with a little familiarity to the sport before your first match. Only thing I will not do is explain USPSA scoring it still confuses me
 
Last edited:
I'll try to explain the USPSA scoring for anyone still confused

your points are all on your targets, A=5, b/c=4, D=2 (assuming major scoring, minor is less for anything not A)

You shoot your stage, add up all your A's, b's and c's, for a total score, subtract any penalties for no shoots or misses. Now you have all the points earned on a stage, for this example, let's say you got 100 points. Let's also say it took you 10 seconds to get these points.
Take your points, and divide them by your time. 100/10= 10 that's your hit factor, think of it as your score.
your hit factor now determines how many points you get for a stage, based on whoever ended up with the highest hit factor. Let's say the best guy did the stage with the same number of points you did, but did it twice as fast, in 5 seconds.
Take his points: 100 divide by his time, 5 seconds=20
your hit factor (10) is half of his. Therefore, you've finished at 50%
Now if the maximum amount of points available on the stage was 125 the guy who won the stage gets all 125 points. You get 50% of those points, 62.5

Your score is always based on whoever won the stage in your division.
 
Now if the maximum amount of points available on the stage was 125 the guy who won the stage gets all 125 points. You get 50% of those points, 62.5

Your score is always based on whoever won the stage in your division.

Thanks Matt, that is the part that always made me scratch my head. which explains where the hair went [shocked]
 
Have never shot either of these two events but have been reading other's posts about them. Is IDPA the more popular style of action shooting in New England? I've only shot PPC back in the late 70s and some handgun silhouette in the early 80s. Recently I've become hooked on bowling pins. Am curious about the other games. (no interest at all in Cowboy Nonsense shooting, even though I love single-action revolvers)

SA John
You know I have shot .22 Gallery, Bullseye, IHMSA and Trap. I currently shoot IDPA, IPSC and CAS. I've never shot High Power or Skeet or Sporting Clays, Bench Rest or some of the other shooting sports but I've also never found the need to describe them as "Nonsense". If its not your game don't shoot it but don't trash it either. We need as many shooting sports as we can get!
 
no, idpa is not the most popular in New England, uspsa has the highest number of active competitors and participation of any of the action shooting sports in this area.
Pretty sure the cowboy action shooting has a larger match attendance than IDPA, just by looking at some recent results at the local clubs. Cowboy isn't nonsense, it's actually kind of fun, although initially I thought getting all dressed up and in character was kind of silly, I did it a few times, and found it's another fun time at the range with your buddies. But it just takes too long for my taste, and those guns don't hold enough ammo.
Still have friends that shoot it, but as almost everything we shoot is on a Sunday, we can only be at one range at a time.
 
…initially I thought getting all dressed up and in character was kind of silly.----Matt
I’m all for people shooting any sport they want, but there just seems to be something "wrong" about grown men discussing material, thread count and period buttons at a shooting match. [grin]


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
never came up with a name, couldn't think of one I was perfectly happy with. I really like what you came up with, but it wouldn't have fit my costume.
I'm sure someone has a photo of me around somewhere. I got photographed a lot at the cowboy shoots. Not for my shooting, thats for sure. those 5 shooters don't hold enough for me to shoot steel with.
 
I’m all for people shooting any sport they want, but there just seems to be something "wrong" about grown men discussing material, thread count and period buttons at a shooting match.

Better not say that around any N-SSA competitors. THEY have artillery! [shocked]
 
I’m all for people shooting any sport they want, but there just seems to be something "wrong" about grown men discussing material, thread count and period buttons at a shooting match. [grin]


Respectfully,

jkelly

Clearly you have never spent much time at a CAS match. The discussion leans more towards .45 Colt vs. 44/40 and Smokeless vs Black Powder. Or SxS vs Pump Shotgun. Or Colt vs Ruger!
 
Clearly you have never spent much time at a CAS match. ---Knob Creek
I've been to about a dozen or so matches, and even help set up a couple. I have several friends that enjoy the sport and I enjoy watching them shoot.

I got photographed a lot at the cowboy shoots.---Matt
Could it be that you look like the lost “Fourth” Amigo?


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
Knob Creek: I think if I want to criticize something I feel is foolish, I'll criticize it. I don't need you as an editor. I have watch CAS in the past and went away shaking my head at the silly costumes, the childish names, and the general low-level of shooting skill displayed. Just about every shooter was angling to shoot the lowest power level they could possibly shoot so that they could shoot faster and miss even faster. Most used .32 and .38 caliber SA guns that shot with such low velocity that I could see the bullets most of the time. There is no need to aim in that game as the targets are so large and close to the shooter. Maybe you think that's fun, but I sure don't. Give me a game that requires shooting a real round and placing it accurately. There is no doubt that CAS is popular - I just don't understand why. And before you write back to tell me how good the shooters are, why don't you show up at the Steel Challenge this Saturday, or any one of the pin shoots at Chester or Country Pond and prove me wrong with your single-action shooting squib loads. I suspect that you would finish dead last. Your turn.

SA John
 
Well SA J so now we know how you feel about CAS...why don't you just try both IDPA and USPSA and see what you thing for yourself. Heck if people only engaged in things that were "popular" we wouldn't be shooting at all! ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom