IDPA suspends club, MD and shooters for allowing AIWB in competition

Except Google by all accounts is a very successful company. I have no insight into IDPA membership but activity at local matches is not what is was in the past. Many things could be impacting the numbers but it's commonly held by members its the organization and some of the policies. The Wilson's are free to run it as they please but members are free to choose alternatives and many have. I cast see how this is good for the organization. In my own club we would routinely have 80 to 100 shooters on a nice summer day, we average under 50 now.

I shot Florida State IDPA this weekend. Tier 4, 285 competitors.

Had a couple shooters from Maryland, lots from Georgia, Florida and Alabama.
 
I shot Florida State IDPA this weekend. Tier 4, 285 competitors.

Had a couple shooters from Maryland, lots from Georgia, Florida and Alabama.
PractiScore says there were 258 shooters this year, I'm guessing you accidentally swapped the last two numbers. The oldest match on PractiScore for the Florida Sate IDPA was from 2017 and there were 263 shooters, the good news is you are not seeing declines in shooters. I shot this event in 2019, the organization and the CoFs were spectacular, its also a nice break in January for people to travel to Florida. With the pandemic and general mess the world is in this is encouraging as a turnout!
 
PractiScore says there were 258 shooters this year, I'm guessing you accidentally swapped the last two numbers. The oldest match on PractiScore for the Florida Sate IDPA was from 2017 and there were 263 shooters, the good news is you are not seeing declines in shooters. I shot this event in 2019, the organization and the CoFs were spectacular, its also a nice break in January for people to travel to Florida. With the pandemic and general mess the world is in this is encouraging as a turnout!

I did transpose, sorry. 258 competitors.

I drove down Friday, it was 54 and raining when I left Georgia. About two hours into Florida the rain stopped, and it started getting warmer. High 70's, low 80's, felt warmer than that when I was shooting.

Academy in Frostproof is an impressive facility. We ran 13 stages, including a first fast shots, so used 12 bays plus one for chrono. I wandered around a bit on Friday, and there had to be another 20 or so pistol bays, including some that appeared to be permanently set up for Steel Challenge.

Stages were good, nothing insanely tricky, few issues with props. The squad I shot with had one prop malfunction, reset and reshoot. Couple nasty little poppers in front of non-threats to make you make the shot, couple of small steels set up similarly. No serious distance shots. Couple of stages with 5 or more shooting positions, I recall one with 7.

One stage was a shoothouse, enough windows so that you didn't need light, it was "dim" rather than dark - and could be shot at least two different ways, (go left, go right).

10 shooters on my squad, first shots at 8AM, we finished around 3:30. A couple of the shooters on my squad were just absolutely fantastic shooters, and pleasant people. I learned a few things yesterday. All in all, a fun, well run match.
 
I did transpose, sorry. 258 competitors.

I drove down Friday, it was 54 and raining when I left Georgia. About two hours into Florida the rain stopped, and it started getting warmer. High 70's, low 80's, felt warmer than that when I was shooting.

Academy in Frostproof is an impressive facility. We ran 13 stages, including a first fast shots, so used 12 bays plus one for chrono. I wandered around a bit on Friday, and there had to be another 20 or so pistol bays, including some that appeared to be permanently set up for Steel Challenge.

Stages were good, nothing insanely tricky, few issues with props. The squad I shot with had one prop malfunction, reset and reshoot. Couple nasty little poppers in front of non-threats to make you make the shot, couple of small steels set up similarly. No serious distance shots. Couple of stages with 5 or more shooting positions, I recall one with 7.

One stage was a shoothouse, enough windows so that you didn't need light, it was "dim" rather than dark - and could be shot at least two different ways, (go left, go right).

10 shooters on my squad, first shots at 8AM, we finished around 3:30. A couple of the shooters on my squad were just absolutely fantastic shooters, and pleasant people. I learned a few things yesterday. All in all, a fun, well run match.
Awesome! Sounds incredible. Spent two hours this morning with a new shooter and froze! Little cold spell here in SE PA this weekend.
 
This is exactly what I was getting at. Its not the gun in the holster, its how you remove and replace it. No matter what you do and how careful you are, you are pointing the gun in a very dangerous orientation shouod you have an ND.

I will again clarify I think this whole discussion is a ridiculous fearmongering over something that is unavoidable. My overall point is the banning of AIWB by IDPA is clown world logic made by people willfully ignoring reality.
Thanks xtry and Wendell for the vids and commentary. I 100% get that incorrectly drawing or reholstering your firearm creates risk from any holster position. Those are why we train. But I thought the discussion above was about the comparative risk of each carry position (and thus why certain positions are disallowed in competition). Appendix is a carry position in which it is impossible not to sweep your femoral artery, even with the best technique. That creates more inherent risk, as you're then only relying on your ability to keep your fingers of the bang switch or avoid getting hung up on entanglements. Pocket carry (which I do frequently) carries similar risks I think. Now I'm not saying that getting shot in the rear, in the femoral bone, or other places ain't a big deal - it undoubtedly is. But severing the femoral artery is one of the fastest paths to unconsciousness and subsequent death you can take.
 
>You clearly spend zero time on construction sites.
Vests are great for concealed carry if you are worried about being attacked on a construction site.
Try going on a site with iron workers who are pissed at you. They don't need propellents, they have gravity.
 
Thanks xtry and Wendell for the vids and commentary. I 100% get that incorrectly drawing or reholstering your firearm creates risk from any holster position. Those are why we train. But I thought the discussion above was about the comparative risk of each carry position (and thus why certain positions are disallowed in competition). Appendix is a carry position in which it is impossible not to sweep your femoral artery, even with the best technique. That creates more inherent risk, as you're then only relying on your ability to keep your fingers of the bang switch or avoid getting hung up on entanglements. Pocket carry (which I do frequently) carries similar risks I think. Now I'm not saying that getting shot in the rear, in the femoral bone, or other places ain't a big deal - it undoubtedly is. But severing the femoral artery is one of the fastest paths to unconsciousness and subsequent death you can take.
I like pocket carry (G43 in A-Holster). I will not, however, attempt to holster while the holster is in the pocket. The holster comes out, the gun insert, and they are placed in the pocket as a unit to prevent any possibility of fabric getting caught in the trigger guard.

I have once seen someone get shot by removing his finger from the trigger guard after holstering. Not even his LEO credential protected him from the bullet. That was many years ago, and we later learned the probable root cause was the early stages of Alzheimers - though he survived his leg wound without any undue complications.

I also know someone who shot himself in the femoral artery with a Para Ord 45. His leg swelled up to what he described as twice the normal size, and the MDs in the ER were trying to figure out what to do when a Lebanese MD walked in and said "bullet hole, no big deal, I dealt with these all the time back in my country, I'll fix it" - and saved the guys life and leg. Having lost his love for that gun, he sold it to a friend who subsequently shot himself in the foot with it.
 
This is a stupid rule.

When I was on the USPSA board I fought hard against this very rule for USPSA - and after much discussion, the board finally agreed with me (imagine that). The USPSA rule is that 6 rounds (major pf) or 8 (minor pf) are the max that can be fired in revolver between reloads. Everyone on the board at the time agreed that forcing loading a revolver less than full would severely handicap revolvers with extra holes in the cylinder, but the big concern was worry that the ROs could not count to 6 or 8 while running a shooter and worrying about safety. When I pointed out that Production division requires ROs to count to 10, everyone on the USPSA board saw the logic.

>You clearly spend zero time on construction sites.
Vests are great for concealed carry if you are worried about being attacked on a construction site.
So now anyone with a 6-shot revolver is at a severe disadvantage. In a world where probably 99% of non-snubby revolvers are 6-round and very few 8-round are even made. Gee, thanks.
 
So now anyone with a 6-shot revolver is at a severe disadvantage. In a world where probably 99% of non-snubby revolvers are 6-round and very few 8-round are even made. Gee, thanks.
No more than they'd see carrying same. If you want a capacity advantage, carry a bigger revolver.
 
So now anyone with a 6-shot revolver is at a severe disadvantage. In a world where probably 99% of non-snubby revolvers are 6-round and very few 8-round are even made. Gee, thanks.

I can see that, but...................
If the shots per stage doesn't exceed 10 or 12, then there is no disadvantage.
5/6/7/8 shots will still have to reload
 
No more than they'd see carrying same. If you want a capacity advantage, carry a bigger revolver.
The difference, of course, is that I can choose to carry whatever I want - I can even carry AIWB! That's not the case when you're talking about an organized sport with specific rules. The vast majority of revolvers can hold 6 rounds; changing the capacity rule to 8 means that the 99% of competitors who don't already have an 8-shot gun have to now go buy one, train with it, buy new holsters and speedloaders, etc. What's the point of changing equipment rules to please 1% of competitors at the expense of the other 99%?


I can see that, but...................
If the shots per stage doesn't exceed 10 or 12, then there is no disadvantage.
5/6/7/8 shots will still have to reload
In a typical stage the difference would end up being one reload vs two. Also, depending on the layout of the stage the timing of the reload can be important (i.e. after 6 shots vs 8).
 
The difference, of course, is that I can choose to carry whatever I want - I can even carry AIWB! That's not the case when you're talking about an organized sport with specific rules. The vast majority of revolvers can hold 6 rounds; changing the capacity rule to 8 means that the 99% of competitors who don't already have an 8-shot gun have to now go buy one, train with it, buy new holsters and speedloaders, etc. What's the point of changing equipment rules to please 1% of competitors at the expense of the other 99%?



In a typical stage the difference would end up being one reload vs two. Also, depending on the layout of the stage the timing of the reload can be important (i.e. after 6 shots vs 8).

I'm going to ask because you seem to know a lot more about this than I do-

Whats the typical round count for a local club i.d.p.a. stage?

The ones I've shot are typically labeled Action Pistol and its a mix of different games, but I don't think I've gone past 2 forced reloads with an 8 shot, so maybe 20 rds? Different animal I know, but there has to be some kind of similarity.
 
I'm going to ask because you seem to know a lot more about this than I do-

Whats the typical round count for a local club i.d.p.a. stage?

The ones I've shot are typically labeled Action Pistol and its a mix of different games, but I don't think I've gone past 2 forced reloads with an 8 shot, so maybe 20 rds? Different animal I know, but there has to be some kind of similarity.
18 rounds max per stage. The average is pretty close to 18 at our club but it can vary based on the MD. I shot a 5 COF event once and I think I used 50 rounds exactly.
 
So now anyone with a 6-shot revolver is at a severe disadvantage. In a world where probably 99% of non-snubby revolvers are 6-round and very few 8-round are even made. Gee, thanks.
In USPSA, only with minor power factor rounds. Major is limited to 6.

It's a tough call when the USPSA board is making rule changes to (a) Welcome new shooters by making more equipment equal and (b) Not pulling the rug out from under members who paid thousands for a slight advantage.
 
I'm going to ask because you seem to know a lot more about this than I do-

Whats the typical round count for a local club i.d.p.a. stage?

The ones I've shot are typically labeled Action Pistol and its a mix of different games, but I don't think I've gone past 2 forced reloads with an 8 shot, so maybe 20 rds? Different animal I know, but there has to be some kind of similarity.

IDPA has round count maximum of 18 per stage. You may load one magazine and carry two others on your belt, except for BUG which can have three reloads.

Magazine capacity is by division. SSP, ESP and Carry Optic for example run 10 round mags, CCP runs 8, BUG runs six. All semi-auto divisions allow you +1 on the initial load, (magazine capacity plus one in the chamber), except BUG which has no "plus one".

"Action Pistol" is usually more USPSA like, where divisions like Production have a 10 (plus one) magazine capacity, where Limited and Carry Optic are restricted by the physical length of the magazine. Round counts in USPSA can get pretty high, particularly when you include stars, polish stars, etc.

Biggest differences between IDPA and USPSA are:
1) Concealment garment required for IDPA unless otherwise specified in Course of Fire.
2) Round count, 18 max for IDPA, I don't know what the limit is for USPSA - I've shot 40 round stages.
3) Designated shooting points behind fault lines .vs. "enter shooting area and engage targets"
4) Magazine retention; IDPA won't let you drop a mag on the ground without penalty unless the mag and chamber are empty


They're both games, with rules, divisions and levels - you compete against what should be comparably skilled shooters in the same division.
 
Biggest differences between IDPA and USPSA are:
1) Concealment garment required for IDPA unless otherwise specified in Course of Fire.
2) Round count, 18 max for IDPA, I don't know what the limit is for USPSA - I've shot 40 round stages.
3) Designated shooting points behind fault lines .vs. "enter shooting area and engage targets"
4) Magazine retention; IDPA won't let you drop a mag on the ground without penalty unless the mag and chamber are empty
5) USPSA is a member run organization; IDPA is not.

USPSA limit is 32 rounds/stage - which does not mean some clubs have run larger ones.
 
IDPA has round count maximum of 18 per stage. You may load one magazine and carry two others on your belt, except for BUG which can have three reloads.

Magazine capacity is by division. SSP, ESP and Carry Optic for example run 10 round mags, CCP runs 8, BUG runs six. All semi-auto divisions allow you +1 on the initial load, (magazine capacity plus one in the chamber), except BUG which has no "plus one".

"Action Pistol" is usually more USPSA like, where divisions like Production have a 10 (plus one) magazine capacity, where Limited and Carry Optic are restricted by the physical length of the magazine. Round counts in USPSA can get pretty high, particularly when you include stars, polish stars, etc.

Biggest differences between IDPA and USPSA are:
1) Concealment garment required for IDPA unless otherwise specified in Course of Fire.
2) Round count, 18 max for IDPA, I don't know what the limit is for USPSA - I've shot 40 round stages.
3) Designated shooting points behind fault lines .vs. "enter shooting area and engage targets"
4) Magazine retention; IDPA won't let you drop a mag on the ground without penalty unless the mag and chamber are empty


They're both games, with rules, divisions and levels - you compete against what should be comparably skilled shooters in the same division.
And also less rules with USPSA = more fun.
 
And also less rules with USPSA = more fun.
I’d say USPSA has more rules but a “more better” written rule book. IDPA rule book is a joke and probably the biggest source of people leaving IDPA. as others have said, it’s run by the Wilsons and they don’t care much about what people think.
 
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