IDPA, plates, practical. Do you know of any groups who run a hot range?

[TheRoland]

The worst injuries I've seen are from range props. Getting whacked in the head by a falling steel target HURTS.

I'm aware of severe gunshots over the years but sailing or horseback riding is like dozens of fatal accidents per year. Everything has risk. Shooting sports risk is low.

 

[KBCraig]

Maybe in the spirit of "Keeping it Real" do away with the 180 as well. Just...please..... don't set any of the targets in front my car...OK?

360 degree ranges are my favorite. Just don't wander through that "airport bathroom" entrance without knowing what's around that last turn.

 

[KBCraig]

The worst injuries I've seen are from range props. Getting whacked in the head by a falling steel target HURTS.

Or as my lovely bride loves to tell in her "About that time I shot myself in the head..." story: scale/slag off the plates, or rebounding lead, it all hurts the same.

 

[masssheltie]

I'm not sure you understand what a cold range is if you think a cold range would have prevented the examples....the shooters were supposed to have their guns loaded then. Its not a range issue, it's a shooter issue.

To be honest, from the descriptions here, the cold ranges described here are just asking for an accident to happen. If the IDPA folks really want to run a safe event, they should run their shoots as follows.

When the shooters arrive at the club, they immediately proceed to a check in table, located in a place where guns can be loaded and unloaded safely. Shooters will turn over all guns that they plan to operate to the range officer staff in locked cases. These staffers check in the guns to a computer database that contains a photo of the gun, owner's info, serial number and gun details (.45 ACP, Colt Combat Commander Blue). The guns will be checked for proper functioning, and confirmed to be unloaded. The checked gun will be returned to the locked case, and placed in a cart that is under the auspices of the range staff. A recepit will be given to the shooter. No shooter will be allowed to be in possession of any firearms during the shoot. Magazines and ammo will be allowed.

The actual shooting area will be surrounded by 8 foot chain link fencing, topped with razor wire. A perimeter security system will be in place, and monitored real time by range staff. Entrance into the shooting area will be through those machines they have at the airport, to prevent anyone from bringing in a gun. Strip searches will be allowed, up to the discretion of the range officer staff. Shooters will be tagged with GPS tagging to monitor their movements on club property.

When the shooter's name is called, the range officer will hand the shooter his unloaded gun. The shooter will load, shoot the stage under the direction and control of the range officer, and when completed, will unload the gun, and turn over the empty gun to the range staff. They will recheck the gun, and return it to the cart.

When the shoot is finished, the range officers will hand out the guns back to the shooters as long as the shooter has a receipt, unloaded and locked with gun locks. All guns must be removed from the club, locked, and disabled.

This way, there is no possibility that someone is going to do anything concerning with any sort of gun, because no one will be able to lay their hands on one unless a range officer is directly supervising same.

Under the present rules, it's too easy for some newbie to accidentally load the unloaded gun that he checked in with, and cause an accident.

 

[Supermoto]

To be honest, from the descriptions here, the cold ranges described here are just asking for an accident to happen. If the IDPA folks really want to run a safe event, they should run their shoots as follows.

When the shooters arrive at the club, they immediately proceed to a check in table, located in a place where guns can be loaded and unloaded safely. Shooters will turn over all guns that they plan to operate to the range officer staff in locked cases. These staffers check in the guns to a computer database that contains a photo of the gun, owner's info, serial number and gun details (.45 ACP, Colt Combat Commander Blue). The guns will be checked for proper functioning, and confirmed to be unloaded. The checked gun will be returned to the locked case, and placed in a cart that is under the auspices of the range staff. A recepit will be given to the shooter. No shooter will be allowed to be in possession of any firearms during the shoot. Magazines and ammo will be allowed.

The actual shooting area will be surrounded by 8 foot chain link fencing, topped with razor wire. A perimeter security system will be in place, and monitored real time by range staff. Entrance into the shooting area will be through those machines they have at the airport, to prevent anyone from bringing in a gun. Strip searches will be allowed, up to the discretion of the range officer staff. Shooters will be tagged with GPS tagging to monitor their movements on club property.

When the shooter's name is called, the range officer will hand the shooter his unloaded gun. The shooter will load, shoot the stage under the direction and control of the range officer, and when completed, will unload the gun, and turn over the empty gun to the range staff. They will recheck the gun, and return it to the cart.

When the shoot is finished, the range officers will hand out the guns back to the shooters as long as the shooter has a receipt, unloaded and locked with gun locks. All guns must be removed from the club, locked, and disabled.

This way, there is no possibility that someone is going to do anything concerning with any sort of gun, because no one will be able to lay their hands on one unless a range officer is directly supervising same.

Under the present rules, it's too easy for some newbie to accidentally load the unloaded gun that he checked in with, and cause an accident.

You should take your own advice

Just because you don't understand something, or have no experience with something doesn't make it wrong. And it makes you look like an idiot to attack someone because they have different ideas. Maybe instead of shooting your mouths off, you should open your minds and listen for a change.

 

[SJan]

To be honest, from the descriptions here, the cold ranges described here are just asking for an accident to happen. If the IDPA folks really want to run a safe event, they should run their shoots as follows.

When the shooters arrive at the club, they immediately proceed to a check in table, located in a place where guns can be loaded and unloaded safely. Shooters will turn over all guns that they plan to operate to the range officer staff in locked cases. These staffers check in the guns to a computer database that contains a photo of the gun, owner's info, serial number and gun details (.45 ACP, Colt Combat Commander Blue). The guns will be checked for proper functioning, and confirmed to be unloaded. The checked gun will be returned to the locked case, and placed in a cart that is under the auspices of the range staff. A recepit will be given to the shooter. No shooter will be allowed to be in possession of any firearms during the shoot. Magazines and ammo will be allowed.

The actual shooting area will be surrounded by 8 foot chain link fencing, topped with razor wire. A perimeter security system will be in place, and monitored real time by range staff. Entrance into the shooting area will be through those machines they have at the airport, to prevent anyone from bringing in a gun. Strip searches will be allowed, up to the discretion of the range officer staff. Shooters will be tagged with GPS tagging to monitor their movements on club property.

When the shooter's name is called, the range officer will hand the shooter his unloaded gun. The shooter will load, shoot the stage under the direction and control of the range officer, and when completed, will unload the gun, and turn over the empty gun to the range staff. They will recheck the gun, and return it to the cart.

When the shoot is finished, the range officers will hand out the guns back to the shooters as long as the shooter has a receipt, unloaded and locked with gun locks. All guns must be removed from the club, locked, and disabled.

This way, there is no possibility that someone is going to do anything concerning with any sort of gun, because no one will be able to lay their hands on one unless a range officer is directly supervising same.

Under the present rules, it's too easy for some newbie to accidentally load the unloaded gun that he checked in with, and cause an accident.

I'd still win that match

 

[Emacs]

I get it. Thats why I don't go.

Yeah, that's why.

 

[xtry51]

Yeah, that's why.

Well that and I want to let SJan win. I hate watching him cry

 

[DW357]

To be honest, from the descriptions here, the cold ranges described here are just asking for an accident to happen. If the IDPA folks really want to run a safe event, they should run their shoots as follows.

When the shooters arrive at the club, they immediately proceed to a check in table, located in a place where guns can be loaded and unloaded safely. Shooters will turn over all guns that they plan to operate to the range officer staff in locked cases. These staffers check in the guns to a computer database that contains a photo of the gun, owner's info, serial number and gun details (.45 ACP, Colt Combat Commander Blue). The guns will be checked for proper functioning, and confirmed to be unloaded. The checked gun will be returned to the locked case, and placed in a cart that is under the auspices of the range staff. A recepit will be given to the shooter. No shooter will be allowed to be in possession of any firearms during the shoot. Magazines and ammo will be allowed.

The actual shooting area will be surrounded by 8 foot chain link fencing, topped with razor wire. A perimeter security system will be in place, and monitored real time by range staff. Entrance into the shooting area will be through those machines they have at the airport, to prevent anyone from bringing in a gun. Strip searches will be allowed, up to the discretion of the range officer staff. Shooters will be tagged with GPS tagging to monitor their movements on club property.

When the shooter's name is called, the range officer will hand the shooter his unloaded gun. The shooter will load, shoot the stage under the direction and control of the range officer, and when completed, will unload the gun, and turn over the empty gun to the range staff. They will recheck the gun, and return it to the cart.

When the shoot is finished, the range officers will hand out the guns back to the shooters as long as the shooter has a receipt, unloaded and locked with gun locks. All guns must be removed from the club, locked, and disabled.

This way, there is no possibility that someone is going to do anything concerning with any sort of gun, because no one will be able to lay their hands on one unless a range officer is directly supervising same.

Under the present rules, it's too easy for some newbie to accidentally load the unloaded gun that he checked in with, and cause an accident.

 

[SJan]

Imagine a place you can go to pressure test your skills using the most difficult, and most practical platform, all the while using a well established set of standards under both the pressure of performing in front of one’s peers as well as the pressure of the dreaded clock.

Imagine that someone has laid out no less than six courses of fire for you to run that will test such skills as: draw times, splits on targets of varying size & distance, target transitions, engagement of moving targets, reloads, shooting on the move, efficiency of movement & footwork, processing speed, etc.
Imagine that someone did all that setup just for you to come and spend 3 hours shooting it to the best of your ability every month on the same weekend & never so much as asked you to break down a stage or even pick up your own brass.
Imagine that all it would cost you was the time & gas to get there, $20, and 200 rounds.
Imagine that these matches are available to you nearly every weekend and there are likely several available to you within reasonable driving distance.
If you’re not doing them regularly ask yourself
this...
Why not?

From a civilian/LEO/Mil training group in central Florida that encourages their students to go shoot the monthly level 1 USPSA matches at Universal Shooting Academy (home of so many USPSA championships)

 

[FrankD]

One other issue.

I took a vehicle defense class with a law enforcement instructor. Rifle and pistol. The class was mostly law enforcement and active duty military types. These guys paid for their training out of their own pocket, so they were a lot more serous than the average cop or soldier. We had guys from NY State police, Boston PD, NH sheriff's department, and Colorado law enforcement along with Army, and Marines. I was the only woman in the class, and one of three civilians.

Training scenarios were run with two people shooting on the firing line at the same time. Since the exercises involved cars, shooters were not lined up next to each other, separated by hardened partitions. Not only did you have to exert serious muzzle and trigger control while climbing in and out of cars, and moving around the vehicle, but you also had to keep track of where your partner was on the range. Range officer supervision was intense, with officers almost in contact with the shooters, but most of the impetus for operating safely was on the individual student.

When the instructor described what we were to be doing, one civilian student asked whether the training was dangerous.

The instructor, a former US Marine, and presently sworn law enforcement guy immediately responded.

"You've all heard the bullshit about how guns are safe, and shooting sports are no more dangerous than playing ping pong? Well that's crap. Shooting is dangerous. If you f*** up, someone is either going to die, or get maimed. We're having you shoot scenarios that put you at risk. Right now, it's October, and it's pouring rain. We're still going to shoot. By the end of each day, you're going to be in pain. Cut. Scraped. Wet. Dirty. Exhausted. Not thinking straight. This makes it far easier to have an ND, or start doing things that are unsafe. Range officers will be in close contact, but what you are doing here is dangerous, and puts you at risk.

But here's the deal. My job is not to protect you from harm. My job is to train you so that you can shoot competently when sweat is dripping into your eyes, rain has soaked your body and you're shivering. Your gun is wet and slippery. You're tired. There are innocents on the range, and someone is trying to kill you. In the real world, you're not going to be shooting lined up perfectly with all the targets laid out in a nice neat row. There's going to be chaos. You have to practice under such conditions to know that you can competently function when conditions aren't perfect.

It is dangerous, but it's more dangerous to send you out onto the street with a gun, when you've never experienced the real world.

Its up to you to be safe and to take care.

I realize that this sort of stuff is not IDPA, open to the general public. But the whole point of doing IDPA is to train for carrying a gun for defense. It makes all sort of sense to make things as safe as possible, but guns can never be made completely safe.

 

[FrankD]

Guns are safe! People are the problem.

 

[allen-1]

Guns are safe! People are the problem.

I shot a two gun team match yesterday. First time I've done that, it was fun.

Emphasis in the stage rules was that no shooter was to be downrange of a loaded gun at any time.

Nobody got DQ'd, nobody got shot - most dangerous thing was the heat - couple of people needed to be told to hydrate. It was easily 95 to 100 out there, and with setup starting at 7AM, I still didn't leave the range until 2:30 or so. Two notes on that - Bio-Lyte is a really nice product, less crap than the "energizer" drinks and one of the great pleasures in life is a cold beer in the shower.

We had two guns running simultaneously on some of the stages, others had shooter 1 running course, dumping gun in barrel or box, then tagging in second shooter who would run same course, (sort of).

First stage was in two bays. Pistol shoots everything in bay 1, dumps gun in bucket, grabs rifle ammo from a can, runs it to shooter 2 who's in the next bay waiting with an unloaded rifle, shooter 2 cleans up bay 2 with rifle. I shot the pistol stage, dropped my mag and was waiting for the RO tell me to show clear when DUH - toss the pistol in the bucket and get moving. That cost us a couple of seconds - and really emphasized - you WILL default to your training practices.

Another stage was pistol only, each shooter in a box. Three steels on either side of the bay, then a star on each side of the bay, then a spinner in the middle. My buddy went for the close steels, I shot the stars, then we both worked on the spinner. Initially we both nailed the bottom to get it moving, then he shot the bottom and I shot the top. Really different working with another shooter. This is the second time we've run a team match, last year I was up north.

Interesting shooting on the 100 yard range. Shooter one setup on a VTac barrier with the ports numbered. Shooter two stood at a table with "cards" face down. S2 flipped a card and called the number on it; S1 had to shoot through that numbered port at a steel down at 100 yards. S1 shoots until they hit that steel, then S2 flips the next card. After all four ports have been shot through, S1 moves to second barricade and has to hit (3) small poppers at 100 yard line. Then they dump rifle in bucket and tag in S2. S1 is now at the table, S2 is now active on the VTAC.

I was shooting my scoped (1-6), AR. Port 4 was about 2 inches x 8 inches, and a foot off the ground. When I set up on it, all I saw was the back of the VTac (and really blurry). I worked on it a bit and figured out that I was going to drop to a seated position, use my left hand on the ground to brace, flip my gun sideways and shoot it one handed. I actually hit the target first shot like that. I did things with my rifle yesterday that I hadn't done before - I'm more of a pistol shooter - it was fun.