Identifying Sig Mags

[Bourget117]

This question is about identifying pre ban sig mags.
I was at a recent gun show this past weekend and a vendor said he had some pre ban hi-cap Sig mags. They looked fairly new, and U.S. made, but didn't have some of the "trade marks" identifying pre ban Sig mags that inhale read about before. I always thought the older ones had the notch or zipper type weld along the back. Also I always thought the witness round count holes were suppose to be in the back as well and not along the side. The vendor had told me that any Sig mag that doesn't have a date stamp on it is pre ban and good to go.

Can anybody confirm this is true or is he selling stuff he shouldn't? I wanted to pick some up but wasn't sure until I did a little more research.

 

[CobaltBlueSteel]

A zipper back and witness holes are indicative of preban Sig mags.

Burden of proof is on the State, so cover your ass is the best policy.

 

[traffic626]

There were some preban Mecgar mags that have witness holes on the side. They were stamped patent pending versus the post ban ones that had the patent number on them. If you google the patent number, you see when the patent was issued, so should tell you that those were post ban

 

[Bourget117]

A zipper back and witness holes are indicative of preban Sig mags.
.

I always thought this as well BUT did they ever make any pre bans that did not have zipper backs with witness holes? Also were any pre ban mags made in US?

 

[Jacq]

from emailing mec-gar on the same question a while ago

Thank you for your interest in Mec-Gar magazines. The only Sig P226 9mm magazines Mec-Gar was manufacturing prior to the ban were in the following configurations: 15rd or 17rd, both available in black oxide or nickel plated finishes. We stopped offering the 15rd magazine in 1999 because of our manufacturing contract with the Sig Sauer factory. We stopped offering the 17rd magazine in 2008 as it was replaced by the current 18rd magazine.

Sincerely,
Mec-Gar USA, Inc.

 

[modernhamlet]

I found this thread (different forum, sorry if that's not kosher) really useful: http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols/22089-p229-p228-9mm-pre-ban-magazines-2.html

 

[Bourget117]

All this info sounds like the guy was trying to pass off new mags for pre bans to people.

 

[drgrant]

Most preban sig mags are phosphated (dull color) with witness holes on the back but this is NOT a 100% absolute by any means. Also be aware the sig LE markings are very subtle, you can miss them if you're not looking for them.

-Mike

 

[Bourget117]

I took a good look at the 10 round mags that came with my p226 that I bought new last year and I think they look exactly like the ones I had seen at the show. Only difference was the 15 mark and hole along the side. So that guy was selling standard mags and trying to pass them off as pre-bans. What a dick.

 

[mark056]

I took a good look at the 10 round mags that came with my p226 that I bought new last year and I think they look exactly like the ones I had seen at the show. Only difference was the 15 mark and hole along the side. So that guy was selling standard mags and trying to pass them off as pre-bans. What a dick.

Were there date stamps on the magazine floor plate? Are there date stamps (wheel) on your ten round magazines?

USA Magazines made a bunch of Sig P226, P228 pre ban mags, don't recommend them though. I think Triple K did too, but not 100 percent sure.

 

[pupchow]

USA Magazines made a bunch of Sig P226, P228 pre ban mags, don't recommend them though. I think Triple K did too, but not 100 percent sure.

I grabbed a few USA Magazines for cheap ($15?), and cleaned them up. Not a single problem with them using ball ammo, even if the follower is a bit wonky. I do however have them separated from the zipper backs, for possible JIC moments.

 

[drgrant]

I took a good look at the 10 round mags that came with my p226 that I bought new last year and I think they look exactly like the ones I had seen at the show. Only difference was the 15 mark and hole along the side. So that guy was selling standard mags and trying to pass them off as pre-bans. What a dick.

Doesn't prove anything. Sig has had a number of mag variants over the years, same with aftermarkets like MecGar, etc.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

It's interesting to know that there are MecGar aftermarket P226 pre-ban mags out there - but at the end of the day Sig OEM pre-ban mags are fairly abundant, better quality, and easier to verify.

They are not "better quality", hell, a shitload of the Sig OEM mags are MADE by MecGar...

-Mike

 

[Bourget117]

Were there date stamps on the magazine floor plate? Are there date stamps (wheel) on your ten round magazines?

USA Magazines made a bunch of Sig P226, P228 pre ban mags, don't recommend them though. I think Triple K did too, but not 100 percent sure.

I never saw any dates on the so called pre bans. And I looked them over very carefully.
Just looked at my 10 rounders, inside and out and still no date on them as well.

 

[noxin]

This question is about identifying pre ban sig mags.
I was at a recent gun show this past weekend and a vendor said he had some pre ban hi-cap Sig mags. They looked fairly new, and U.S. made, but didn't have some of the "trade marks" identifying pre ban Sig mags that inhale read about before. I always thought the older ones had the notch or zipper type weld along the back. Also I always thought the witness round count holes were suppose to be in the back as well and not along the side. The vendor had told me that any Sig mag that doesn't have a date stamp on it is pre ban and good to go.

Can anybody confirm this is true or is he selling stuff he shouldn't? I wanted to pick some up but wasn't sure until I did a little more research.

He's just looking to sell mags and inadvertently throw you under the bus. I have several "post-ban" mags and not one of them has a date on them anywhere.

 

[mark056]

He's just looking to sell mags and inadvertently throw you under the bus. I have several "post-ban" mags and not one of them has a date on them anywhere.

I can only say that in the context of my limited experience all the post ban OEM Sig Mags I have ever seen have a date wheel on the floor plate. A circle that looks like a clock with an arrow in the middle. The arrow points to the number which is the month, on each side of the shaft of the arrow in there is a number. The left side will be a 9, zero or 1 (to date) and the left will have a number 0 to 9. So if the arrow points to 4 in the circle and the number on the left side of the shaft is a 1 and the number on the right hand of the shaft is a three, the mag was manufactured April, 2013. If the arrow is pointing to 11 and the number to the left of the shaft is a 9 and the number to the right of the shaft is a 7 the nag was made in November, 1997 and so forth. I'm surprised that there is no date wheel on the floor plates of your recently made 10 round magazines.

 

[Bourget117]

I can only say that in the context of my limited experience all the post ban OEM Sig Mags I have ever seen have a date wheel on the floor plate. A circle that looks like a clock with an arrow in the middle. The arrow points to the number which is the month, on each side of the shaft of the arrow in there is a number. The left side will be a 9, zero or 1 (to date) and the left will have a number 0 to 9. So if the arrow points to 4 in the circle and the number on the left side of the shaft is a 1 and the number on the right hand of the shaft is a three, the mag was manufactured April, 2013. If the arrow is pointing to 11 and the number to the left of the shaft is a 9 and the number to the right of the shaft is a 7 the nag was made in November, 1997 and so forth. I'm surprised that there is no date wheel on the floor plates of your recently made 10 round magazines.

Maybe they don't stamp them anymore? That's what is shipping with new Sigs.

 

[fencer]

Are there many, or any, cases of people being charged or prosecuted for post ban Sig or Glock magazines?

 

[pupchow]

Are there many, or any, cases of people being charged or prosecuted for post ban Sig or Glock magazines?

Yes, but I haven't discovered any cases where "possession of a large capacity feeding device" was the only charge.

 

[drgrant]

Are there many, or any, cases of people being charged or prosecuted for post ban Sig or Glock magazines?

Good luck finding reliable data on that. I've heard of a few cases where prosecution was attempted (not with glock or sig mags specifically, but just large cap awb violations in general) but who knows if they actually got stung for it or not. One thing that makes it difficult to track is people get charged with all kinds of things and then by the time court comes around most of the charges are dropped and the prosecutor/ADA will hang their hat on one or two easy to convict things. LCAFD without a license is easily like 3-4 times more common and even those cases are hard to find in searches. (and those don't apply to washed people with licenses).

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Yes, but I haven't discovered any cases where "possession of a large capacity feeding device" was the only charge.

Yeah, that is pretty much a unicorn, although when Scriv was here an eon ago he claimed he had a client that got hit soley with LCAFD w/o a license and AWB violation, but no further detail was given.

-Mike

- - - Updated - - -

I can only say that in the context of my limited experience all the post ban OEM Sig Mags I have ever seen have a date wheel on the floor plate. A circle that looks like a clock with an arrow in the middle. The arrow points to the number which is the month, on each side of the shaft of the arrow in there is a number. The left side will be a 9, zero or 1 (to date) and the left will have a number 0 to 9. So if the arrow points to 4 in the circle and the number on the left side of the shaft is a 1 and the number on the right hand of the shaft is a three, the mag was manufactured April, 2013. If the arrow is pointing to 11 and the number to the left of the shaft is a 9 and the number to the right of the shaft is a 7 the nag was made in November, 1997 and so forth. I'm surprised that there is no date wheel on the floor plates of your recently made 10 round magazines.

Having seen a shitload of pre and post ban Sig mags, while this attribute is often true it is not universally or exclusively true. There are plenty of posties that don't have a "mold clock" on the floorplate.

-Mike

 

[MMArtist]

Most LEO don't know the laws at all, even more dont care, and nearly none of them could ID a post ban vs a preban with any certainty. Besides maybe ambi glock mags or guns that simply do not have prebans period. If the mags aren't dated I wouldn't spend a single thought on it.

 

[Bourget117]

Having seen a shitload of pre and post ban Sig mags, while this attribute is often true it is not universally or exclusively true. There are plenty of posties that don't have a "mold clock" on the floorplate.

-Mike

So that could be good or bad. Having no date stamps anywhere on a mag could be used against me or in my defense.

 

[noxin]

So that could be good or bad. Having no date stamps anywhere on a mag could be used against me or in my defense.

Yes, but the courts have shifted the burden of proof for this to you. You have to provide information/evidence that indicates the magazine is pre ban.

 

[MMArtist]

Yes, but the courts have shifted the burden of proof for this to you. You have to provide information/evidence that indicates the magazine is pre ban.

categorically false

 

[drgrant]

Yes, but the courts have shifted the burden of proof for this to you. You have to provide information/evidence that indicates the magazine is pre ban.

Lol, 110% wrong. The burden lies with the state. That's part of the reason this issue doesn't appear often in gun cases, the standard of evidence is complex compared to other gun charge.

 

[drgrant]

I'll add though it's not impossible for them to get a conviction, an expert witnesss with solid gun creds could do it, but even then it's not a slam dunk in all cases. (because the knowledge base on this stuff is spotty at best) Those kinds of people exist but I get the impression that they are pretty rare.

 

[Bourget117]

Yes, but the courts have shifted the burden of proof for this to you. You have to provide information/evidence that indicates the magazine is pre ban.

categorically false

Lol, 110% wrong. The burden lies with the state. That's part of the reason this issue doesn't appear often in gun cases, the standard of evidence is complex compared to other gun charge.

I'll add though it's not impossible for them to get a conviction, an expert witnesss with solid gun creds could do it, but even then it's not a slam dunk in all cases. (because the knowledge base on this stuff is spotty at best) Those kinds of people exist but I get the impression that they are pretty rare.

So which is it?? Legal? Not legal? Buy any mag I want and let the state worry about trying to prove its illegal? Or just stick with 10 round mags?
I'm more confused than before I started this thread.

 

[pupchow]

"Large capacity feeding devices" are prohibited by law in MA. There's an exemption for those items which preceded the "assault weapons ban."

It's your call.

 

[drgrant]

So which is it?? Legal? Not legal? Buy any mag I want and let the state worry about trying to prove its illegal? Or just stick with 10 round mags?
I'm more confused than before I started this thread.

Preban mags are legal. The fun is determining what preban is, on the ground...