Identifying real vintage Sniper Rifles - How to tell if they are fake or real?

Rockrivr1

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I know this is going to have a wide berth of answers here, but I'm trying to find out what I should be looking for when it comes to vintage rifles that are listed as Authentic Snipers. Garands, Mosins, 1903s, etc. I've seen a couple of examples lately that have peaked my interested, but I'm not willing to fork out good money for an unknown. What are some telltale signs that someone just slapped on a period correct scope to an every day rifle and called it Authentic? Or, what should I really be looking for?

Thanks
 
Yeah, I looked at a Mosin Nagant "Sniper" and had no clue if it was real or not. I'm betting people get ripped off all the time.
Oh, I'm sure. Particularly given that some were captured by the Finns and then probably the Finns mounted scopes on some, with no real provenance -- so looking at a particular "Finish sniper Moison", did the Finns actually mount a scope on that rifle or did Billy Bob stick one on?
 
I spent a significant amount of time researching the Mosin pu snipers before I picked up a few good examples. There are quite a few things that need to be correct like proof marks year of manufacture numbers.
I suspect it's that way for all snipers.
 
I know this is kind of a non-answer, but if you buy it from the CMP and they say its a sniper, it's a sniper.

All their M1C and M1D models now go through the auction site. I'm guessing they are pretty dear.

One rifle I own that isn't officially a sniper rifle but is very accurate is a Finnish Mosin Nagant. It's a tack driver. Especially with the reloads that the former owner worked up.
 
I know this is going to have a wide berth of answers here, but I'm trying to find out what I should be looking for when it comes to vintage rifles that are listed as Authentic Snipers. Garands, Mosins, 1903s, etc. I've seen a couple of examples lately that have peaked my interested, but I'm not willing to fork out good money for an unknown. What are some telltale signs that someone just slapped on a period correct scope to an every day rifle and called it Authentic? Or, what should I really be looking for?

Thanks
As mentioned, it's a bit of a minefield. Legit snipers can be hard to find and verifying authenticity quite a rabbit hole. There are even legit Mosin PU 're-snipers' that were originally snipers, converted to a standard rifle back in the day, and recently restored to sniper condition. I had a re-sniper that I eventually sold once I built up a USMC 1941 clone (1903 based) for CMP vintage sniper competition. The PU was fun but the scopes suck for adjusting between 300 and 600 yards.

Springfield Research Service (SRS) is no longer active but some folks on related forums might have the database and can look for hits if it's a Springfield made sniper such as the 1941 or 1903A4.

You can find bonafide M1C's and D's from the CMP. Those will be legit and documented but will need mounts etc. to complete as they are bare rifles.

Swedish Mauser snipers are out there and along with 1941's and 03A4's will be some of the most accurate you will find. I think it's safe to say that most likely any German Mauser sniper you find will be fake.

Depending upon what you want to do with it, a clone might be a good option. If you want a shooter, clones are usually the way to go.
 
I know this is kind of a non-answer, but if you buy it from the CMP and they say its a sniper, it's a sniper.

All their M1C and M1D models now go through the auction site. I'm guessing they are pretty dear.

One rifle I own that isn't officially a sniper rifle but is very accurate is a Finnish Mosin Nagant. It's a tack driver. Especially with the reloads that the former owner worked up.
+1 for both comments, adding that if one makes a trip to one of the CMP stores they usually have M1C's and/or D's in stock.

Finnish Mosins have pretty good triggers. IIRC I put a Finn trigger in the PU sniper I had. The Finn I have is still in its Russian-killing WW2 stock. It's ugly, but accurate. I know the below groups won't look impressive to the 6.5 ManBun crowd, but those were shot prone with a sling at 100 yards in below freezing weather. Target on the right might be with crappier ammo.

lS15Gjs.jpg
 
Yeah, I looked at a Mosin Nagant "Sniper" and had no clue if it was real or not. I'm betting people get ripped off all the time.

20 years ago, getting a cheap MN Sniper was easy. "All #'s matching." Sure. But teh scope and mount were electro-penned to the rifle serial.

There were still authentic MN Snipers back in 2000-2005. But post Enemy At The Gate, the prices rose quickly. :(. (Hence the electro-penned ones.)
 
You also need to think how far in you want to go. You can get some great shooters that are original sniper rifles but have been reworked and rebuilt. My 1903a4 is an original sniper but has probably had just about every part swapped out at one point or another. I put my M1D together with all correct usgi parts but who knows if the receiver was ever a sniper. I picked up an enfield no4 T scopeless rifle that was sent to Holland and Holland for sniper configuration and had everything done but never had a scope and bracket fitted. Because of this it never received the T stamp. I prefer these types of examples because I like to shoot what I own and don’t feel bad bringing these out.
 
Depending on what you're looking at, if it was only offered as a sniper rifle I think you'd be safe. e.g. ZFK 31/55
 
It's probably safe to say there are more fakes out there than real snipers, no matter the rifle you're looking for! Considering how much more snipers sell for, it's no wonder there are a lot of examples out there that were assembled by individuals or by companies/importers. The model I'm most familiar with are Mosin PU snipers, and the fakes range from easily identifiable to difficult to tell without a lot of research.

When I was shopping around for one many years ago, I found it easier to keep an eye open for particular importers that brought in real rifles. This one was was imported from Yugoslavia through Samco about 20 years ago. They picked up a large batch of original PUs that were not arsenal refinished after the war. The scope is a repro, but I don't mind. Turns out it was one of the better ones made back when these rifles were imported.

Beware of sellers who are asking top dollar swearing their rifle is real. Many don't know exactly what to look for , and would rather accept theirs is real and worth what they paid for it!

IMG_5811.jpg
 
No notches! But there are some nice markings that were usually removed during refurb when the stocks were sanded down and covered in shellac!

I haven't shopped around for one in many years, so I just took a look on GB. Prices range from $1000-$2500 for PU snipers. Not sure how original they are, but it seems like slapping a scope on one of these will elevate price to at least $1k!
 
+1 for both comments, adding that if one makes a trip to one of the CMP stores they usually have M1C's and/or D's in stock.

Finnish Mosins have pretty good triggers. IIRC I put a Finn trigger in the PU sniper I had. The Finn I have is still in its Russian-killing WW2 stock. It's ugly, but accurate. I know the below groups won't look impressive to the 6.5 ManBun crowd, but those were shot prone with a sling at 100 yards in below freezing weather. Target on the right might be with crappier ammo.

lS15Gjs.jpg

A short time after this NES member posted this, he listed 4 of the 5 for sale. I got them all for $250 each. They are all armory fresh. I only shot one and eventually sold off the others.
 

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Carlos Hathcock used a Remington 700.

I thought it was a Winchester m70
And you’re both correct. Win 70 on his first deployment, REM 700 after the USMC took notice of the usefulness of scout snipers in Nam. The Winchester was a regular sported model, the REM had a better trigger and a heavier barrel contour. Most people don’t know that he was using a third gun : an M2 50 cal Ma Deuce. He made the techs come up with a mount and put his scope on every day while on base. Had to zero every day. He used it to kill the Apache.
 
And you’re both correct. Win 70 on his first deployment, REM 700 after the USMC took notice of the usefulness of scout snipers in Nam. The Winchester was a regular sported model, the REM had a better trigger and a heavier barrel contour. Most people don’t know that he was using a third gun : an M2 50 cal Ma Deuce. He made the techs come up with a mount and put his scope on every day while on base. Had to zero every day. He used it to kill the Apache.
I can't imagine dragging the M2 around. Unless I misread the specs, it weighs about 60 pounds.
 
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