Ideas on liability ins. for self defense shooting?

[yanici]

We've got some pretty smart and informed members here. So, maybe someone can say where we can get the best bang for the buck on insurance coverage for a shooting.

Let's assume it's self defense, at home or away. You want to cover legal fees as well as liability claims.

Should we go with an umbrella plan or maybe the NRA plan? Any good ones out there with reasonable premiums?

 

[Bob P]

We've got some pretty smart and informed members here. So, maybe someone can say where we can get the best bang for the buck on insurance coverage for a shooting.

Let's assume it's self defense, at home or away. You want to cover legal fees as well as liability claims.

Should we go with an umbrella plan or maybe the NRA plan? Any good ones out there with reasonable premiums?

The criminal action isn't covered at all. A civil suit arising out of the shooting might be.

Standard HO insurance excludes intentional acts but the exclusion then says "Exclusion E1 does not apply to the use of reasonable force by an insured resulting from the use of reasonable force to protect persons or property"

If you shot someone in self-defense they'd likely reserve their rights to deny coverage in the event you were convicted of a homicide charge but they would have to pay for your defense.

IANAL

 

[Jose]

Most umbrella policies classify shooting someone, even in self defense, as an intentional tort and they will NOT cover you. Some states (California being one if you can believe it) have case law stating otherwise. But if you do not live in one of those you are SOL claiming under your umbrella.

The NRA offers a policy to cover criminal legal defense fees, but not any civil awards against you.

Your best bet is to move to a state where torts are blocked if your shooting is ruled justifiable.

 

[Bob P]

Most umbrella policies classify shooting someone, even in self defense, as an intentional tort and they will NOT cover you. Some states (California being one if you can believe it) have case law stating otherwise. But if you do not live in one of those you are SOL claiming under your umbrella.

The NRA offers a policy to cover criminal legal defense fees, but not any civil awards against you.

Your best bet is to move to a state where torts are blocked if your shooting is ruled justifiable.

Note: the CRIMINAL defense part wouldn't be covered as it doesn't meet the definition of an occurrence. A CIVIL suit would be covered as long as it was a self-defense situation.

Some intentional torts are covered by a standard HO liability policy and a self defense s

 

[Jose]

The NRA offers a policy strictly tailored to cover the cost of a criminal trial defense.

 

[yanici]

Would it be worthwhile to sit down with an insurance agent and see if I could get homeowner coverage on this? Has anyone tried yet? By extending the homeowner plan there may be more coverage in other areas too, besides the gun shoot liability area. Of course the coverage would have to protect while carrying off the premisis as well.

Has anyone bought this type of insurance?

 

[Raoul Duke]

The NRA policy is about $150 for $100,000/year and $250/$250,000/year I believe I remember reading that it covers a civil suit and a criminal defense as long as you are found not guilty. That's the gist of it. I am sure that there are a million and one small print issues to consider. If it's effective, I mean, if it's not completely shot full of holes so that they never actually have to help you out, then it might really be something to consider for the members who simply couldn't, no matter what, cobble together $100,000 for a lawyer if they had to suddenly. I mean, imagine you've just shot someone in self defense. Do you want the overworked public defender or do you want the bulldog? How much is that bulldog going to cost? Right, $100,000K. This is something I think I'm going to look into and see what the story is.

 

[P-14]

http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/index.asp

I have $250K from the NRA and it covers me for $50K in court/lawyer costs for successfully defending a justifiable shoot. Cost is about $260/year as I recall.

I never felt I needed it in NYS. I never hesitated to get it once I moved to MA.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I have $250K from the NRA and it covers me for $50K in court/lawyer costs for successfully defending a justifiable shoot. Cost is about $260/year as I recall.

From the way that's phrased - "SUCCESSFULLY defending a justifiable shoot" - It sounds like you get reimbursed AFTER you win IF you win.

That's fine. Definitely better than nothing. But remember that a really good lawyer is going to want a large cash retainer BEFORE he even starts on your case.

So you're still going to need some way to raise 30 to 50 K in cash first, and that's not even counting what you need for bail, assuming you can even get it.

Regards
John

 

[doobie]

We all chip in $50/month and hope only one of us needs to use the insurance!

 

[Bob P]

From the way that's phrased - "SUCCESSFULLY defending a justifiable shoot" - It sounds like you get reimbursed AFTER you win IF you win.

That's fine. Definitely better than nothing. But remember that a really good lawyer is going to want a large cash retainer BEFORE he even starts on your case.

So you're still going to need some way to raise 30 to 50 K in cash first, and that's not even counting what you need for bail, assuming you can even get it.

Regards
John

It's a reimbursement policy for the criminal stuff - it has to be as it's against public policy to insure someone for a criminal act - so if you're aquitted it's not criminal and they can pay you.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

perhaps some our esteemed firearms lawyers can chime in on this.....

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

It's a reimbursement policy for the criminal stuff - it has to be as it's against public policy to insure someone for a criminal act - so if you're aquitted it's not criminal and they can pay you.

I get it. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing or anything.

I'm just saying that there doesn't appear to be any way you can pay for an insurance policy that will jump in, post your bail, and/or pay a good attorney to defend you from criminal charges stemming from you having to shoot someone in self-defense.

Would that it were otherwise.

If you have to shoot someone, you can expect to have to lay out a LOT of money yourself, up front. So factor that fact into your thinking and planning.

Regards
John

 

[Bob P]

I get it. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing or anything.

I'm just saying that there doesn't appear to be any way you can pay for an insurance policy that will jump in, post your bail, and/or pay a good attorney to defend you from criminal charges stemming from you having to shoot someone in self-defense.

Would that it were otherwise.

If you have to shoot someone, you can expect to have to lay out a LOT of money yourself, up front. So factor that fact into your thinking and planning.

Regards
John

At least with the policy you can leverage something - like a mortgage on the equity in your house or something - to pay your bills figuring you're going to get reimbursed once you win. And if you don't, it don't matter anyway.