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"I wouldn’t want some guy with a license to carry a gun carrying it in his coat"

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Bill to allow firearms aboard Amtrak has officials, riders on edge
By Tom Davis / The Record | Saturday, September 26, 2009 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Northeast
TRENTON, N.J. — Rail security in the New York metropolitan area may be in peril now that the U.S. Senate wants to allow firearms aboard Amtrak, officials and rail advocates say.

That potential security risk could also force the national rail service to install gun-safe storage compartments and add security checkpoints, causing long lines on a system with a steadily increasing ridership, Amtrak says.

In a letter to congressional leaders, New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine said he was "outraged" that the U.S. Senate, by a 68-30 vote, agreed last week to permit Amtrak passengers to transport firearms and ammunition in their checked baggage.

Corzine said he will "not allow the NRA to force guns to be transported or carried" into stations that serve New Jersey’s urban centers and major universities, such as Newark and New Brunswick.

"Mandating our national railroad to hold and transport firearms in unsecured baggage areas across America is both deplorable and ludicrous in a post-9/11 world," he said.

Gun-rights advocates said Amtrak’s current policy prohibiting people from transporting any firearm, ammunitions, explosives or similar weapons unfairly penalizes law-abiding passengers.

The National Rifle Association noted that guns are permitted aboard planes as long as the weapon is unloaded and stored safely and separately from the passengers.

"It would be mindful for people that Amtrak is nationwide," said Andrew Arulanandam, an NRA spokesman. "There are people who use it and have a need to carry firearms for a lawful purpose."

The amendment to the transportation and housing appropriations bill still needs President Obama’s signature — a long shot, some say, because of Obama’s past opposition to gun-rights legislation.

A House version of the bill was passed in July, but does not include the amendment.

Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr., D-N.J., believes Amtrak has neither the money nor the personnel to safely protect its 27 million annual riders from gun-toting passengers.

Relaxing firearms restrictions, he said, could also encourage terrorists to transport weapons and pose a security threat.

"Sept. 11 is still with us, and if they (amendment supporters) think the rails have become safer, they’re wrong," Pascrell said.

The measure says Amtrak would lose its federal subsidies if it doesn’t establish a system for protecting passengers from firearms by early next year — a deadline that Amtrak officials aren’t sure they could make.

More than a week after the Senate bill passed, Amtrak spokesman Steve Kulm said the agency is still unsure how to proceed. If the bill becomes law, however, the agency would work with the Transportation Security Administration in establishing a security system, he said.

The TSA declined to comment.

Firearms had been allowed in checked baggage before the Sept. 11 attacks, Kulm said. Since 2001, the rail service has performed random baggage checks but has no uniform system of checking for guns.

Enforcement of the anti-gun policy was strengthened after the Madrid train bombings in 2004, Kulm said. Amtrak also now deploys K-9 units and identification checks.

"We clamped down on it and strengthened it," he said. "That’s when we really took off on beefing up security."

But Amtrak may have to pay a hefty price to set up security checkpoints that are similar to those at airports and install safe-storage compartments that will separate the weapons from the passengers, Kulm said.

"We wanted to mitigate the risk, and one way to do that was to not allow firearms," he said.

The New Jersey Association of Rail Passengers, in turn, said the additional security could discourage people from train travel, and force them into their cars.

The group noted that rising gas prices and train upgrades have led to an 11 percent increase in Amtrak ridership since 2006. Setting up checkpoints, however, could make the trains more difficult to access.

"It’s impossible to check everybody," said Al Papp of the association.

The NRA, however, said it is "astounded" that Amtrak does not have a security and storage system that would make not just weapons, but all luggage "easy pickings for burglars."

"That’s a stunning concession that Amtrak customers ought to make note of," said Arulanandam. "Their current argument is bogus."

NJ Transit declined to comment, but Port Authority officials appeared stunned by the news, saying PATH trains will not allow riders to carry guns in their bags. Maintaining security would be next-to-impossible, they said.

"I can’t say that’s ever gotten even a thought," said Port Authority Chairman Anthony Coscia. "Our thought process has always been the opposite."

Some passengers also said they, too, were surprised by the news, saying they worry that the Senate measure will encourage more people to bring guns aboard trains — and potentially slip through security.

"I’m not thrilled with people carrying guns on trains," said Rosemary Bell of Ridgewood, N.J. "I wouldn’t want some guy with a license to carry a gun carrying it in his coat."
___

Visit The Record on the Web at http://www.northjersey.com/
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/northeast/view.bg?articleid=1200123

[sad2][sad]

I wonder if Rosemary would be happy then if a licensed person carried in their boots instead
 
I'd be willing to bet that if she ever encountered some guy without a licence to carry, carrying a gun in his coat, she'd very quickly change her tune.
 
Moron doesnt realize that the checked baggage is not the same as in somone's coat?

Do any of these people fly and realize that they may have firearms in the checked bagggage there?

There IQ of Jersey pols seems to be in the low 50s. After all, they have a ton of gun legislation and NO gun crime happens in NJ, right?
 
People from Jersey are not known to be the sharpest tacks in the drawer. Hence why you can't pump your own gas. Ever see Real Housewives of NJ?

Remember Corzine is in with all the NJ mayors that just got nabbed in the corruption scandle. Of course he doesnt want guns in the state!

It would cut into the mafia illegal gun trade!

That state should have just been turned into the toxic waste dump it is.
 
The gun-rights issue aside, just pull the plug on Amtrack already. Why the hell are American taxpayers still required to support this failed business model?
 
This logic is astounding. They say that firearms on the train would pose a security risk. But increasing security would drive people away!

"But Amtrak may have to pay a hefty price to set up security checkpoints that are similar to those at airports and install safe-storage compartments that will separate the weapons from the passengers, Kulm said.

Why do you need the security checkpoints? You were apparently satisfied with your random bag checks to find people checking guns when they weren't allowed. So now that guns are permitted, any person who is allowed to own the gun will come forward to declare its presence. Why would someone who is lawfully bringing his gun choose to have it in the unsecured general baggage area over the secured firearms area? And for those that don't declare it, your system that you have in place for screening for guns should be enough, right?
 
So, to allow people to bring guns in checked luggage would require more security than denying them? How is that possible?
 
The gun-rights issue aside, just pull the plug on Amtrack already. Why the hell are American taxpayers still required to support this failed business model?
Amtrak isn't perfect, but how can it be after decades of underfunding in favor of autos and roads? I use public transit every day and, IMHO, rail is an important component of the national transportation infrastructure. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with denying Amtrak its $1.6 billion federal subsidy (half of which is directed at the Northeast Corridor) until it permits us to exercise our 2nd Amendment rights.
 
Amtrak isn't perfect, but how can it be after decades of underfunding in favor of autos and roads? I use public transit every day and, IMHO, rail is an important component of the national transportation infrastructure. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with denying Amtrak its $1.6 billion federal subsidy (half of which is directed at the Northeast Corridor) until it permits us to exercise our 2nd Amendment rights.

Although I don't want to totally hijack this thread I think I should make something clear here.

Amtrack is failed business. PERIOD. It has been on life support for many years (read: Taxpayer money used to subsidize its continued existence).

If Amtrack is such an an "important component of the national transportation infrastructure" than it should be able to finance its operations without hosing John Q. Public.

However, I think we'll both agree that since Amtrack IS being funded, in part, by American taxpayer dollars then their proverbial feet should be held to the fire on this. If the TSA can figure how to secure firearms for air travelers at our nation's airports, surely Amtrack officials can put something together here.
 
Mike, I contend that the airlines are also a "failed business model". They are likewise subsidized by the Fed'l gov't and if said subsidies were to stop, they would probably all collapse under their own incompetence!
 
Mike, I contend that the airlines are also a "failed business model". They are likewise subsidized by the Fed'l gov't and if said subsidies were to stop, they would probably all collapse under their own incompetence!

That's the free market at work then! No worries.
 
These people have forgotten about Colin Ferguson and his paper bag already.
GC

No kidding. Although that was an LIRR train and not an Amtrak train. But of course criminals don't make appointments (quoting Massad Ayoob here).

FWIW, I wouldn't board a MBTA subway car or Commuter Rail train *without* a CCW gun.
 
These people have forgotten about Colin Ferguson and his paper bag already.
GC

Yes, and they're still running around acting like some dumbass law on a piece of paper is going to prevent a madman from shooting up a train. [rolleyes]

-Mike
 
This new law would encourage terrorists to bring guns on the trains[rofl]

OOHH thats a good one. Are people serious when they say things like this??

And for the lady who doesn't want the guy to be carrying a gun in his coat? The way I read the bill the guy would have to be stowed in the baggage compartment inside his suitcase?
 
Coming from NY and having to smell their foul stench on a daily basis I tend to veiw NJ as the left armpit of the United States. I can't take anything that comes from NJ seriously anyway.
 
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