I was asked a strange question yesterday...

[fubar]

I never double checked ... but I've heard it said Doctor error causes far more deaths in America than firearms do.

 

[Bandit]

My daughters pediatrician did ask us that question when we started going to Her. ( but what else would You expect from a Dr. in Wayland )
If Your PTO is drawing up a list of questions to be included on a paper to be sent home regarding play dates , and You are on the committee , and the firearm's issue comes up.
Ask if they wouldn't also include the question , ( do You and Your husband partacipate in kinky sex games when the kids have friends over ? ) and be very firm that You want that question included.
The looks You will get are priceless , let alone the kick from Your wife.
Bob
Ps
The firearm's question , was not on the list sent home

 

[Jose]

Jose,

I don't necessarily disagree with your perspective and thoughts on privacy, but do vouch for the legitimacy of the line of questioning within the medical world (been there, done that). I also believe what goes on inside my home is my business, but it may not be perfect and lifestyle improvements could be made.

I do disagree that the only job of MD's is to heal. Prevention and sharing medically related information is a HUGE issue within the medical world and there are actually assigned specialists/departments within the military regarding prevention. It is absolutely your choice to act as a prudent consumer and a) change providers or b) not provide the information.

As for nothing occuring in a person's house being their business, does that include knowledge of the medications that people are given from their chiropractor/heart specialist and the herbal supplements that all can affect the medications that they may prescribe? Or advising an elderly patient to remove the throw rugs/alter furniture to prevent a broken hip (that has a up to a 50% associated mortality rate within 1 year due to complications with recovery in the elderly) Or maybe advising/instructing testicular exams to look for the painless lumps that are most commonly found in 20-30 year old males (I would hope males) to prevent sterility or even death? Or another almost mandated screening question when people, especially females, go to ER's - questions to identify domestic abuse issues in order to put a halt on the cycles that have plagued and destroyed families for generations. Providers actually have a fair amount of insight into who we are/how we live, that's part of their jobs in order to best provide care to you.
(I throw these out as other examples of other probing, sensitive questions and NOT meant to be personal/relevant to you at all and no offense meant)

I have never heard of numbers being accumulated regarding "guns in house" and turned into anywhere. Might it happen? Perhaps.... Has anyone heard for sure?

PS our pediatrican asked as well and didn't react at all when the answer was yes.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

As an intelligent man, I do not need doctors to tell me about the dangers that lurk in my home. I can also do plenty of reading and research about my health.

What I cannot do is diagnose and medicate, and that is all I need the medical profession for.

And don't get me started on domestic violence. Since when did we deputize doctors to be investigators/detectives/interrogators? This is a police, not medical function.

 

[drgrant]

Jose,

I don't necessarily disagree with your perspective and thoughts on privacy, but do vouch for the legitimacy of the line of questioning within the medical world (been there, done that). I also believe what goes on inside my home is my business, but it may not be perfect and lifestyle improvements could be made.

The problem is that "the gun question" is pure political BS. Does the
doctor ever ask you if you own a bicycle, motorcycle, boat,
or airplane?

I'm just not buying that the "risk factor" of gun ownership is high
enough to warrant it being something your doctor should be bringing
up, wether it involves children or not. (Kids have been getting
killed by furniture and television sets, but I bet the doctors are
only starting to ask about that kind of thing, despite the fact
that's been going on for years... its just that a TV set or a piece
of furniture was not a politically charged issue!)

Another cue that its political- some go to the extent of starting
to prattle off statistics, etc, most of which we know are bogus
or contrived. (EG, when the "children" thing gets brought up, they
never tell you that 17 year old gangbangers that get into shootouts
and stabbings are considered "children" by the stat gatherers).

If they were truly interested in asking this question about your
well being, they'd say something like "Do you take adequate safety
measures when using tools or other equipment?" IMO the idea
is the same... the MINDSET is where its at. The guy that makes
an effort to not cut his thumb off with a saw is also probably the
same guy that is NOT going to shoot himself, either. Why
concentrate on guns when creating a safety mindset is a better
approach, that works across the board?

-Mike

 

[reinbeau]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

As an intelligent man, I do not need doctors to tell me about the dangers that lurk in my home. I can also do plenty of reading and research about my health.

What I cannot do is diagnose and medicate, and that is all I need the medical profession for.

And don't get me started on domestic violence. Since when did we deputize doctors to be investigators/detectives/interrogators? This is a police, not medical function.

Jose, whether you like it or not, doctors have had these questions on their agendas for at least 26 years - I know, my eldest is 26 and I was asked these questions at the time. My doctor listened to my answers and said that sounded fine. I took no offense, I had read the doctors were asking those questions in some mothers' magazine and knew it was coming.

Yes, the AMA is a liberal feel-good nanny-state organization, and I agree with how you feel, but it's been going on for years and years, I'm surprised anyone is surprised by it.

 

[FPrice]

Yes, the AMA is a liberal feel-good nanny-state organization, and I agree with how you feel, but it's been going on for years and years, I'm surprised anyone is surprised by it.

I finally had that question asked by a nurse when my 9 yo son had a physical earlier this year. I launched into a fairly strong speech about how I am an NRA and MSP certified firearms instructor and how my home is safer because of this. She kind of smiled, nodded and moved on to other questions.

I think that the sensitivity of late is just a building backlash to the efforts by medical organizations and professionals to inject themselves into the gun debate and influence public opinion with the so-called "junk science" that we see so much. It is not a health problem although one can argue that the results of improper/criminal gun handling is a medical problem.

Just try to imagine the outcry if the medical community applied the same tactics to the AIDS problem or unplanned pregnancies.

 

[Scrivener]

I might find the question less intrusive and be more inclined to consider it as a medical question if - and ONLY if:

1. The doctor asked the PARENT and not, as was posted here, the CHILD;

2. The AMA were equally zealous in its inquiries about far more common causes of death and injury, like drowning in pools and even 5-gallon buckets, access to common household chemicals, dogs, non-use of car seats/seat belts and leaving kids locked in cars unattended.

The fact that only firearms are targeted, combined with using kids to obtain info about their parents, smacks of the totalitarian state's tactics.

 

[reinbeau]

Well, Scriv, not to argue, but my doctor did ask me, not my children, and the way it's framed in magazines, that's who they usually ask. I agree that asking the children smacks of way to much totalitarianism

 

[Scrivener]

Well, Scriv, not to argue, but my doctor did ask me, not my children, and the way it's framed in magazines, that's who they usually ask. I agree that asking the children smacks of way to much totalitarianism

Then you need to (re)read Eddie Coyle's post:

When the doctor asked my son about it (during a discussion about lead) he said that he'd been shooting with me but went on to tell her, "We use mostly jacketed ammo."

Obviously some doctors are interrogating the children. I have seen this stated in near-identical threads on other forums.

Note that the answer will be noted on the chart, which will be part of the record your HMO or whatever collects on you. Anyone who thinks that data is secure is probably clueless enough to still use their SSN on their driver's license "because it's so convenient."

 

[TY43215]

I might find the question less intrusive and be more inclined to consider it as a medical question if - and ONLY if:

snip

2. The AMA were equally zealous in its inquiries about far more common causes of death and injury, like drowning in pools and even 5-gallon buckets, access to common household chemicals, dogs, non-use of car seats/seat belts and leaving kids locked in cars unattended.

The fact that only firearms are targeted, combined with using kids to obtain info about their parents, smacks of the totalitarian state's tactics.

If they ask me about buckets, they will be shocked at that answer. I have more buckets than guns. (Most filled with brass )

 

[Scrivener]

If they ask me about buckets, they will be shocked at that answer. I have more buckets than guns. (Most filled with brass )

Kids won't drown in brass. For that matter, I have a hard time comprehending how a toddler can drown in a bucket mommie washed the floor/daddy washed the car with, yet it is a common cause of death.

First, WHERE WERE THE F***ING PARENTS???

Second, how is it the child did not knock the bucket over, spilling the water and eliminating the danger?

Then again, while we've got lots of nieces, nephews and godchildren, we don't have kids.

 

[dwarven1]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

As an intelligent man, I do not need doctors to tell me about the dangers that lurk in my home. I can also do plenty of reading and research about my health.

What I cannot do is diagnose and medicate, and that is all I need the medical profession for.

And don't get me started on domestic violence. Since when did we deputize doctors to be investigators/detectives/interrogators? This is a police, not medical function.

Um. Think I need to disagree with you here on a few things. (had my financial advisor over last night, as as I regard finance as a Black Art about which I know nothing, I took pretty much all of his advice... which leads me to rethink some of my thoughts on doctors and some of what has been posted in this thread)

You said

What I cannot do is diagnose and medicate, and that is all I need the medical profession for.

And there's where I start to disagree with you. I also consult my NP (as well as my optometrist, chiropractor & dentist) on preventative medicine, as well. They (as a group) advise me on (off the top of my head) excercises, stretches, diet, toothpaste and what type of brush to use, etc. None of these comes under the heading of "diagnose & medicate" but how to avoid NEEDING medication.

Now, IF a doctor asks a new parent or new patient's parent if s/he has guns, it is possible that they could be going to advise you to remember that kids are more curious than cats and to keep the guns locked away from the kids. Comes under preventative medicine... sorta like keeping dishwashing detergent and paint thnner locked up and away from the kids. Unfortunately, many docs do NOT take that kind of attitude, and I see NO reason for a doctor to EVER note it down that little Johnny's parents own guns. OTOH, I see nothing wrong with trying to help a new parent think of things that they may not think of.

As for domestic violence... many people will tell a doctor or nurse things that they wouldn't dream of telling a cop. Personally, I think that beating your wife, husband OR children is a despicable crime and should be punished by finding someone even bigger than the offender to administer a thorough beat-down to said offender. However, most victims are so cowed that they will NOT call the cops. Someone must. To an extent, I guess that makes me a "nanny-stater". So be it. If someone is unable to protect his or herself, then we must.

 

[dwarven1]

The problem is that "the gun question" is pure political BS. Does the doctor ever ask you if you own a bicycle, motorcycle, boat, or airplane?

Well, my GP didn't, but that may have had something to do with the fact that I walked into her office carrying a helmet and wearing a leather jacket.

OTOH, my audiologist DID ask that question... which is how I know that riding a motorcycle for 10 years without hearing protection leads to "noise-related hearing damage".

 

[Biff Quizler]

"We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

As an intelligent man, I do not need doctors to tell me about the dangers that lurk in my home. I can also do plenty of reading and research about my health.

What I cannot do is diagnose and medicate, and that is all I need the medical profession for.

And don't get me started on domestic violence. Since when did we deputize doctors to be investigators/detectives/interrogators? This is a police, not medical function."


Agreed Jose! If more people were self sufficient and willing to take responsibility for their own health and prevention then we probably wouldn't see such "intervention" from the medical field. Decreased job security for a vast # of providers if people did some homework and used their brains. (Don't get me started on how lamb like our society is getting!!!!)

BTW, as for politically charged agendas... the major Peditrician society (I forget if it's APA, AAP, whatever) I believe has released blatant anti handgun statements if I recall correctly.

The DV thing is strange, medical people asking directed questions and then including info in charts. Only released to LE with signed consent.... Only purpose I can come up with is to take opportunity to offer voluntary services, but it is an observed statistic on JHACO inspections, the credentialling organization for hospitals (actually an private watchdog organization that empowered itself and now has infiltrated the system to the point of mandating such inspections.)

It's my personal preference to inform the fewest # of people any details about my firearms. Has been for years stemming from the wierd looks on other kids faces when I'd show up late in school after a bit o bird hunting... I figured out quickly that people have no clue and jump to (negative) conclusions immediately when guns are mentioned..

 

[fubar]

... My child was asked , not my self. ...

 

[M14Robert]

My six year old was asked by the pediatrician what he likes to do more than anything. My son made eye contact with me and didn't say anything. Then I told him "ok".
"I like to play Army and I like to shoot my .22."
Doc didn't have a problem with it. My son has been shooting his .22 for about three years, and an AR and SKS for two years.
I explained to the doc that our family shoots, that I compete, that I teach hunter/safety, and ALSO
that I would rather teach my kids safety at an "early" age than to have my neighbor's kid teach him when "it was too late."
He seemed to see my point and then went off on a tangent involving BB gun wars when he was a kid.

 

[Jose]

Um. Think I need to disagree with you here on a few things. (had my financial advisor over last night, as as I regard finance as a Black Art about which I know nothing, I took pretty much all of his advice... which leads me to rethink some of my thoughts on doctors and some of what has been posted in this thread)

You said

And there's where I start to disagree with you. I also consult my NP (as well as my optometrist, chiropractor & dentist) on preventative medicine, as well. They (as a group) advise me on (off the top of my head) excercises, stretches, diet, toothpaste and what type of brush to use, etc. None of these comes under the heading of "diagnose & medicate" but how to avoid NEEDING medication.

Now, IF a doctor asks a new parent or new patient's parent if s/he has guns, it is possible that they could be going to advise you to remember that kids are more curious than cats and to keep the guns locked away from the kids. Comes under preventative medicine... sorta like keeping dishwashing detergent and paint thnner locked up and away from the kids. Unfortunately, many docs do NOT take that kind of attitude, and I see NO reason for a doctor to EVER note it down that little Johnny's parents own guns. OTOH, I see nothing wrong with trying to help a new parent think of things that they may not think of.

As for domestic violence... many people will tell a doctor or nurse things that they wouldn't dream of telling a cop. Personally, I think that beating your wife, husband OR children is a despicable crime and should be punished by finding someone even bigger than the offender to administer a thorough beat-down to said offender. However, most victims are so cowed that they will NOT call the cops. Someone must. To an extent, I guess that makes me a "nanny-stater". So be it. If someone is unable to protect his or herself, then we must.

Ross, I am well and truly able to find recommendations on anything from diet, exercise, stretching, herbal supplements, ad nauseum, on my own. I don't need doctors, or their advice, for that.

I do not NEED, nor want, anyone to tell me how I should live my life. That is why I am adult, to take responsibility for myself AND my children.

The state and the medical profession's advice and recommendations are neither needed nor welcome unless I ask for them.

As I said before, I do not go to a doctor's office to be lectured or counseled about ANYTHING. If there is something I want their advice on, I will ask.

If that makes me look like an arrogant know-it-all, so be it. That's the price I pay for being an extreme believer in individualism and privacy.

I could not agree more with you about domestic abusers. But it is not the place of doctors to pry about such things. If someone is afraid of retaliation, what makes you think they will tell the doc what they won't tell the cops? Are they that naive that they don't know why the doc asks? Never mind, don't answer that.

 

[reinbeau]

Then you need to (re)read Eddie Coyle's post:



Obviously some doctors are interrogating the children. I have seen this stated in near-identical threads on other forums.

Note that the answer will be noted on the chart, which will be part of the record your HMO or whatever collects on you. Anyone who thinks that data is secure is probably clueless enough to still use their SSN on their driver's license "because it's so convenient."

No, dear, I don't need to reread anything, Eddie's post was pages back, and I was reporting my experience, which was markedly different from what you (and for that matter, Eddie) were pointing out. Anyone who thinks things are at all secure and safe in this day and age has a screw loose and I've never said the info was safe. Nothing is safe, no one's information is secure, anyone who wants to know anything can find it out if they're determined enough and have the technical knowledge to find it.

Now I realize no one is supposed to know or experience anything but you, but we do have different lives. I, for example, actually have children and have had experience with doctors and the interactions that occur during physicals. I wasn't looking for an argument from you, but I'm sure that doesn't matter, you just love to argue. Must be a lawyer thing.

on!

 

[dwarven1]

Ross, I am well and truly able to find recommendations on anything from diet, exercise, stretching, herbal supplements, ad nauseum, on my own. I don't need doctors, or their advice, for that.

Must be nice to know everything. I don't; that's why I ask advice from someone who spends their professional career doing things like that.

Hmm... you mentioned herbal supplements. I used to participate in "heavy list" SCA tournaments. Think 50 lbs of medieval armor and wooden swords. I (and every other fighter on the field) would get some nice bruises. My chiropractor told me about an homeopathic remedy called Arnica. Although skeptical, I gambled $4 on a bottle. Much to my surprise, the darn stuff WORKS. Had I had your attitude, I'd never have tried it. Frankly, my life in the SCA was much easier because I took that advice you scorn.

I do not NEED, nor want, anyone to tell me how I should live my life. That is why I am adult, to take responsibility for myself AND my children.

I don't, either. I take anything suggested to me with due skepticism, examine the suggestion, and, if I feel it may have merit, try it. If it works, great. If not, that's great, too. I learned something, even if it's negative. If I do not feel the need to even try the suggestion, I don't.

The state and the medical profession's advice and recommendations are neither needed nor welcome unless I ask for them.

The former, I agree with. The latter? Well, I'm paying the doctor for medical care, so I will listen to them. If I don't like the suggestion, I ignore it. As a diabetic, however, and someone with a family history of other problems I'm not going to detail here, I will certainly listen to any suggestions. If it sounds hokey, or if it involves a life change I'm not willing to make, then I don't do it. I still ride a motorcycle, for example. My choice.

As I said before, I do not go to a doctor's office to be lectured or counseled about ANYTHING. If there is something I want their advice on, I will ask.

Exactly my point. However... Jewish teachings mention the 4 children. The wise son, the wicked son, the simple son and the son unable to ask. The fourth son, we are taught, you have to teach from the beginning. My concern is what happens if there's something I don't know enough to ask about? Example: there's a link between oral hygiene and heart trouble in diabetics. I never would have thought to ask that, but my dentist knows I'm a diabetic so he told me about this and makes sure I get frequent checkups. I'd never have even THOUGHT to research this!

If that makes me look like an arrogant know-it-all, so be it. That's the price I pay for being an extreme believer in individualism and privacy.

Well, actually, it does. I only hope that it doesn't cost you your life.

If someone is afraid of retaliation, what makes you think they will tell the doc what they won't tell the cops? Are they that naive that they don't know why the doc asks? Never mind, don't answer that.

I'll answer it anyway - simply put, sometimes a person will tell a doc what they won't tell the cops. Nothing to do with WHY, and everything to do with WHO.

 

[boomerang]

It seems to me alot like RadioShack asking for my telephone number.

My answer is always absolutely not!

 

[Scrivener]

No, dear, I don't need to reread anything, Eddie's post was pages back, and I was reporting my experience, which was markedly different from what you (and for that matter, Eddie) were pointing out.

Not just me, Mommie Dearest; note that a couple of posters have since related similar incidents.

I wasn't looking for an argument from you, but I'm sure that doesn't matter, you just love to argue. Must be a lawyer thing.

Wasn't looking to start one, just directing you to the source of my point. But I know you love to chide me - must be a mother thing...

 

[TOM-P]

Same thing here, at our first appointment almost 17 months ago for my daughters they asked the same line of questions , do you smoke, carbon monoxide det, smoke det, when she asked about the guns and are they locked she didnt even look up when I said yes. About 3 months ago when we went in for another routine check up they were updating to new computer based system. This time a nurse asked the questions. DO you have fire arms, yes, Are they locked, yes,. then with came" well are you a police officer," NO, Do you Hunt, I again said NO, I then asked her if she had any firearms she said no, I dont need a gun, I was about to get going a little and my wife looked at me and said Thomas!!(yup just like mom, I knew I was in trouble.) so I backed off...When the DR came in I asked her about the questions and she went over how they are routine adn so on. I informed her that I felt a little heat from the nurse and she said she would have a conv with her....

 

[K-DUB]

 

[Lkwinnipesaukee]

Dont change doctors just because of that. That is WAY overreacting. Some people just dont understand that guns arent dangerous in the right hands... not a big deal


Being a teenager, my doctor always asks if theres guns in my house, if i smoke, do drugs, etc. I say that as well as being a cocaine/heroin dealer and user, I also sell assualt rifles

 

[Scrivener]

About 3 months ago when we went in for another routine check up they were updating to new computer based system. This time a nurse asked the questions. DO you have fire arms, yes, Are they locked, yes,. then with came" well are you a police officer," NO, Do you Hunt, I again said NO, I then asked her if she had any firearms she said no, I dont need a gun, I was about to get going a little and my wife looked at me and said Thomas!!(yup just like mom, I knew I was in trouble.) so I backed off...When the DR came in I asked her about the questions and she went over how they are routine adn so on. I informed her that I felt a little heat from the nurse and she said she would have a conv with her....

Smoke / CO detectors are a matter of building codes. What your profession is and hobbies are has nothing to do with whether you own guns or not and why. The questions are more than BS, they are intrusive, unnecessary and now part of a (probably poorly-secured) computer database.

Even my wife would NOT have been able to stop me from challenging the intermeddling nurse's presumptuous queries - sooner than you started to. Good call informing the doctor of your objections.

 

[Executive]

When this line of questioning begins at doctor visits for my children, I generally do my best Jack Nicholson as Col. Jessup (A Few Good Men).

Do you have guns in the house?
Yes.
Are they locked up?
Yes.
How are they locked?
Securely.

Just waiting to use the line:

What do you want to talk about next? My favorite color?

 

[Jose]

It seems to me alot like RadioShack asking for my telephone number.

937-123-4567

 

[Jose]

do you smoke, carbon monoxide det, smoke det, when she asked about the guns and are they locked she didnt even look up when I said yes. ....

I would have answered with: "none of those issues relate to either medical care nor to the reason I am here".

 

[Jose]

Being a teenager, my doctor always asks if theres guns in my house, if i smoke, do drugs, etc. I say that as well as being a cocaine/heroin dealer and user, I also sell assualt rifles

Good on ya, mate!