i thought i'd make some of your heads explode

greencobra

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cause this thread has the big two that leads to an aneurysm around here...para ordnance and .40 s&w. i wanted to show you all the gun i was using to shoot ipsc with in the 90's. just to spice things up.

up until this time i used a series 70 gold cup .45 acp pretty much stock and a colt 1911 .45 i had customized. (the man who worked on it is a member here) i wanted more round capacity. a lot of the national big guns were going to 9mm in custom built guns at this time but 2 problems...beretta was the only ones that could get a double stack 9 to run reliably and of course the platform of choice was a 1911... and pressures were running extremely high with people reloading the 9 trying to make major. para had recently put out the p-16 .40 so i figured problem solved. i didn't have the money to buy a caspian or para frame and build a .45 hi cap from the ground up, so...logical choice. the .40 made major no problem and 16 in the mag with one up. jesus, i could shoot the whole match without a mag change the way the stages were designed in those days, lol.

i got my p-16. a pretty slick canadian made pistol with 2 issues. it wouldn't shoot to point of aim at 25 yards, way high. i had to aim under a target, and it too had an issue with the double stack .40 mag not feeding 100%. i needed warranty work. since i couldn't send the gun back to canada para provided the name of a u.s. shop near me to send it to. i was living in colorado so it went to bill laughridge at cylinder & slide in nebraska.

i wanted to keep the stock rear sight cause it was flat and tall, perfect for racking a gun on something if an arm was out of commission. bill ground off the original front and rebuilt a big honking sight out front and filed it to point of aim at 25 yds. he also reworked the 4 magazines i sent to tune them to the gun for reliable feeding. on all four he engraved the serial number of the gun. the rest of the work was minimal, he installed an extended mag release, installed a beavertail and tuned the action. all under para's warranty. i ran with the original springs, they are still in the gun today.

i got back a pretty nice competition gun, extremely reliable and accurate. the first match i took it to the rest of the field wanted me dq'd. no way that gun was legal. see, these guys wanted to stay with a traditional single stack .45. i remembr a few years prior when someone showed up with the then new wilson 8 round mag. they all had heart attacks after screaming cheater at the guy. i said i dunno, all the big boys are using double stacks in california and no one is yelling foul. and besides, i was no threat to anyone, i sucked at the game but it was a lot of fun. i ran the gun for 8 1/2 years and it worked like a champ, still does. i take it out of retirement several times a year.

i wore the factory finish off the frame. i had lou biondo at bec cerakote the frame back to factory color spec. for some reason whatever they used on the slide held up and it still looks new today. and we drew from those old timey bianchi leather holsters so it held up well.

to make your heads explode in furor, here she is today, lookin' sassy and smart. we never won a damn thing but we looked sharp trying.

PO1.jpgPO2.jpg
 
People are always stunned when they find out my carry gun is 40lame

I bought the particular pistol because I shoot it well with out much manipulation. The cal was not even a consideration. Pistol was priced right.
Funny is its the only pistol I dont reload for.
 
That will still be competitive in todays USPSA Limited division. In some aspects it can be more desirable than an STI 2011. The para magazine is wider than STi near the top and with a Dawson basepad can hold 22 rounds. Dawson also has a magwell for it. The all steal frame has more weight in your hand compared to an STI modular polymer grip (although steel grips are the norm the past few years)

What was the timeline for when these Para 40's became available, and the CZ 9mm hi-caps, and was that before or after the Open and Limited divisions became a thing?
 
What was the timeline for when these Para 40's became available
i believe, but not 100% sure, 1991. i bought mine in nov or dec of '91. the first recorded sn in the p-16 para data base is june '92 so we're in the ballpark at 1991.
...was that before or after the Open and Limited divisions became a thing?
it was a long time ago but i think it was before limited came on the scene. i may be wrong.
 
I don't understand the hate for 40. If you listen to certain people the 40 will blow up your gun break your wrist and bounce off of people?. Its not a death ray but neither is 9 or 45.
 
I think I still own a Canadian made P-12, if I do it’s unfired. I owned a P-40 with this weird trigger, it had a very long and smooth trigger pull and held 16 rounds of 40. I sold that to a guy from my club who actually collected Para Ordinance pistols. It was one of two he didn’t own of their entire line. Imagine that, of all the interesting things to collect this guy collected Paras. I’d never seen a guy so happy about a shitty pistol.
 
Its correct name is 10mm short.

If we are calling 40 is short and weak then the majority of people must be real pussies because the shorter, weaker, smaller 9mm is the most popular round by far.

Reality is its got nothing to do with being down sized, its got to do with ammo cost and that some people cant shoot it well because its still too much gun for them or something? Im still waiting for the real reasons the guys that shoot 9 piss on 40. And these days ammo cost and availability aint a good one

I love the versatility to be able to change to a 357 sig (which in a lot of cases is hotter than 10mm) with
a simple barrel swap and I love being able to get plenty of ammo during Covid.
 
If we are calling 40 is short and weak then the majority of people must be real pussies because the shorter, weaker, smaller 9mm is the most popular round by far.

Reality is its got nothing to do with being down sized, its got to do with ammo cost and that some people cant shoot it well because its still too much gun for them or something? Im still waiting for the real reasons the guys that shoot 9 piss on 40. And these days ammo cost and availability aint a good one

I love the versatility to be able to change to a 357 sig (which in a lot of cases is hotter than 10mm) with
a simple barrel swap and I love being able to get plenty of ammo during Covid.
You should have seen the amount of people in LGS losing their shit in the O years while I was walking out of the store with a case(500rd) of .40 and three battle packs of .308 when all they were allowed was their 2(sometimes 1) box of 9/5.56/.223. It was awesome, I was still shooting 3-4 times a week and hitting shops to/from the range. [laugh]
 
There is a devoted and passionate 10mm crowd out there. We just don't insist on outing ourselves and being all loud and proud like the forty guys. We have a nod we do when we pass each other, we know the score.
Dont get me wrong. I like 10mm too, have one.

However 357 sig ballistics are very similar. Some of the factory 10mm is very weakly loaded.

I dont think anyone is loud and proud about shooting 40. People are certainly loud and proud against it from what I can see.
 
I .40 S&W
I never thought I would have to add you to my ignore list. [laugh]

I will say something I never thought I would say ...
If someone made an 8 shot .40 revolver, I might (MIGHT) think about it.
 
I've never quite understood the para ord hate

Their LDA models have incredible triggers

I used to shoot bowling pins years ago and one of the guys that always came was a gunsmith. After the pin shoots usually there would be informal target shooting. Said gunsmith always had a range bag with customer guns he had just fixed the week before or so. ALMOST EVERY TIME at least one or two out of the 2-4 guns in the bag, were Paras. This is what we call, "a sign". [laugh] Many years ago I suspect their QC didnt suck as much, but as time wore on it got worse and worse. We had guys on here who had Para sending them like, bent slide stops and shit like that. See also, Para Warthog, probably one of the top 10 worst guns in existence.

Also the LDA was kinda pointless within the product line, given that their guns are based off 1911s... which has the best manual safety in existence.

I fired an LDA and I thought it was cool. For about 10 seconds... then this guy popped into my head...

ytho.jpg

-Mike
 
I have an earlyish P14-45 (probably 1995 or 96) that's been relatively trouble free, although it doesn't have enough of a round count to really stress it out. When it was new it did try to spit out the hinge pin on the adjustable rear sight every 100 rounds or so, until I raised a nice burr on the pin with some vice grips and drove it back into the sight. It's probably in need of a range trip, it's been a few... years?

My brother and I both bought LDAs about 15 years later in a group purchase, both some sort of coated finish on the guns. Mine had such an aggressive paint run on the bottom of the dust cover that it was dragging on the frame enough to FTF/FTE the pistol until I sanded it down. His didn't drag on the frame, but in the first couple months the coating started blistering off in little bubbles like it had been liberally sprayed with oil droplets just before going into the spray booth. Took 9 months to get Para to straighten that out. Gotta agree with drgrant on the LDA trigger. Yes, it works, but why??? I haven't shot that one much, and I know my brother lost his taste for it at some point during arguing with Para customer service.
 
There is a devoted and passionate 10mm crowd out there. We just don't insist on outing ourselves and being all loud and proud like the forty guys. We have a nod we do when we pass each other, we know the score.

I must be an oddball because I like both the 10mm AND the .40.


I .40 S&W

Me too...great round!

I have an earlyish P14-45 (probably 1995 or 96) that's been relatively trouble free, although it doesn't have enough of a round count to really stress it out. When it was new it did try to spit out the hinge pin on the adjustable rear sight every 100 rounds or so, until I raised a nice burr on the pin with some vice grips and drove it back into the sight. It's probably in need of a range trip, it's been a few... years?

My brother and I both bought LDAs about 15 years later in a group purchase, both some sort of coated finish on the guns. Mine had such an aggressive paint run on the bottom of the dust cover that it was dragging on the frame enough to FTF/FTE the pistol until I sanded it down. His didn't drag on the frame, but in the first couple months the coating started blistering off in little bubbles like it had been liberally sprayed with oil droplets just before going into the spray booth. Took 9 months to get Para to straighten that out. Gotta agree with drgrant on the LDA trigger. Yes, it works, but why??? I haven't shot that one much, and I know my brother lost his taste for it at some point during arguing with Para customer service.

I have an early P14-45 that I can shoot more accurately with over my Colt Gold Cup. I think it's due to the larger double-stack grip.
 
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