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I suck and can't diagnose WTH is wrong with my AR-15--FTF

RLBreton

RLBreton

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So, a little backstory: home built Anderson lower with bone-stock parts kit. Hardened Arms upper with their BCG. Ran flawlessly for ~2k rounds. Took a class last fall and half way through, it started FTF. I stripped it at home and did what I would call a good "field clean\lube" and jammed it in the safe. Took it out last week for a work outing and 7 rounds in...same sh!t. I can't diagnose what is wrong, but I know that when the zombies come, I am screwed...

Anyone have any insight into WTH is going on or anyone want some $$ or adult beverages to help me figure out what is up? In the Greater Lowell area.
 
can you give more detail on the FTF? (I assume failure to feed?)

all magazines? what types?

does the bolt override the magazine? does the round get caught up trying to get into the chamber?

Pics wouldn't hurt.
 
Location?

Do you have any spare parts to start a trouble-shooting process? Other mags, BCGs, maybe another upper or lower, etc.?

As has been mentioned, FTF is a pretty generic term. The class will need more info in order to properly participate.
 
By FTF do you mean failure to fire or failure to feed?

For failure to fire do you have another BCG you can swap in to rule out any fouling there - if not have you disassembled your BCG and given it a good cleaning?

For failure to feed
Is it partially feeding and jamming? Or not feeding a round at all after it fires and ejects? Is the trigger resetting?
- try a different mag, check the buffer spring, is the ammo underpowered?
 
Failure to Feed - multiple GI magazines, multiple brands of .223--it's been mostly Wolf and PPU and PMC . Trigger is resetting, but the chamber is empty. It's the buffer spring and buffer that came with my ACE shorty. I've not see a jam and I ran the BCG pretty wet (thinking that was the issue) with Ballistol.
 
RLBreton said:
Failure to Feed - multiple GI magazines, multiple brands of .223--it's been mostly Wolf and PPU and PMC . Trigger is resetting, but the chamber is empty. It's the buffer spring and buffer that came with my ACE shorty. I've not see a jam and I ran the BCG pretty wet (thinking that was the issue) with Ballistol.
Click to expand...

does the bolt lock back on an empty mag?

do you have a FSB, low profile, or adjustable gas block?
 
RLBreton said:
Failure to Feed - multiple GI magazines, multiple brands of .223--it's been mostly Wolf and PPU and PMC . Trigger is resetting, but the chamber is empty. It's the buffer spring and buffer that came with my ACE shorty. I've not see a jam and I ran the BCG pretty wet (thinking that was the issue) with Ballistol.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the gun is short-stroking. To confirm, load one round in a known good mag. Shoot. Does the bolt lock back? If not, the gun is short-stroking (the bolt is not traveling rearward far enough to pick up the next round). Possible causes range from dirty gun (unlikely, from what you've said) to being under-gassed. You said the first 2K rounds were fine? How is the gas block attached? Pinned, or set screws? If it really is short-stroking, and it started during a class, there's a chance the gas block came loose. Can you check that?

When the gun does fire, where does the brass land? 2:00, 4:00, etc?

It's the buffer spring and buffer that came with my ACE shorty.
Click to expand...

Have you been running that combo all along?
 
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ScottS said:
This sounds like the gun is short-stroking. To confirm, load one round in a known good mag. Shoot. Does the bolt lock back? If so, the gun is short-stroking (the bolt is not traveling rearward far enough to pick up the next round). Possible causes range from dirty gun (unlikely, from what you've said) to being under-gassed. You said the first 2K rounds were fine? How is the gas block attached? Pinned, or set screws? If it really is short-stroking, and it started during a class, there's a chance the gas block came loose. Can you check that?

When the gun does fire, where does the brass land? 2:00, 4:00, etc?



Have you been running that combo all along?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the bolt NOT lock back if the rifle was short stroking? Am I reading this wrong?
 
BTW, depending on where you live, I can help trouble-shoot this, if you'd like. I'm in SoNH, and I have extra...well, you name it. BCG's, bolts, uppers, lowers, buffers, springs, etc. PM me if you're interested.
 
Lokdog said:
Wouldn't the bolt NOT lock back if the rifle was short stroking? Am I reading this wrong?
Click to expand...

You're exactly right. What you read was a bastardized combination of "does it fail to lock back?" and "does it lock back?" and the appropriate "if it doesn't," or "if it does." Too much thinking/editing as I type. I mashed the two thoughts together, and f-d it up.

I fixed the post.
 
the gun should still run with worn gas rings, it should run even with a couple missing rings

if you get to whit's end bring it by my shop and I can most likely have it figured out in about 5 minutes


How much wolf ammo or any steel case ammo have you run through it??
 
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I purchased an AR-15 years ago in MA with failure-to-feed issues (probably why it was sold). After many failed attempts at finding the root cause, I determined the previous owner had put a rifle-length buffer spring in a carbine-length stock. The rifle runs perfectly fine now with a carbine-length spring.

This may not help you since it sounds like your rifle was running fine for awhile, but it can't hurt to check.
 
Ok so you insert mag and cycle the charging handle or hit the bolt release and it chambers correct?
If so then you pretty much know you have a gas system issue.
1. Do a detailed strip and clean. 2000 rounds is not a lot but for some of the lower end ARs out there 2k rounds is a lot.

I have zero knowledge of hardened arms but advertising "machine gun grade" barrels seems to lead to cheaping out on other parts. They make no mention of who or where the other parts are from.
Ok moving on.
Make sure your gas block is tight and in proper location. Make sure the gas tube is secure. Inspect the gas tube end through the receiver and make sure its not bent or dinged up.
All good?
Remove your complete bolt carrier group then detail strip it.
Lay all the parts out and check them closely for loose, broken or excessive wear.
Make sure the the carrier gas key is tight and look for excessive soot where it meets the bo!t carrier.
No inspect the bolt and the gas rings. At this point 2k rounds and having problems just toss known good quality rings in.
Then inspect the cylinder on tbe carrier where the bolt rides. i have seen some shed the chrome lining.
Make sure the gas key port is clean and clear
Look for excessive wear or shinny areas on the moving parts.

Im not a run them wet fan. grease and oil can not be compressed

As for how many rounds a AR can handle with out issues. Its un known.
My stag model 2 went a few thousand rounds of wolf steel with out a "cleaning" best it got was a qick wipe and a oil patch before stuffing it in the safe. 5k before a detail strip and barrel scrub. My S&W MP started jammimg at 300 rounds. Cleaned it and all was well up until i sold it.
 
sschevy said:
the gun should still run with worn gas rings, it should run even with a couple missing rings

if you get to whit's end bring it by my shop and I can most likely have it figured out in about 5 minutes


How much wolf ammo or any steel case ammo have you run through it??
Click to expand...
This matters little a in spec functional AR should run steel with out issue. Only issue with some cheap steel or brass ammo is under powered . Remington UMC was the absolute worst ammo i have ever used.
 
mac1911 said:
This matters little a in spec functional AR should run steel with out issue. Only issue with some cheap steel or brass ammo is under powered . Remington UMC was the absolute worst ammo i have ever used.
Click to expand...

Not necessarly , I just had a customer in who’s rifle was doing this exact thing, everything mechanically and structurelly checked out ok

After a few questions he told me he cleaned the rifle after every shoot but was primarily shooting steel case ammo before this happened , now with brass ammo it’s having problems.

A bronze chamber brush chucked into a cordless drill on low speed and a healthy soaking of kroil removed all the residual laquor that was built up in the chamber that regular cleaning wasn’t removing , after the initial slow pass the brush and kroil began lifting the goo and it was obvious the chamber was caked in it

The rifle now functions flawlessly

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this happen from steel case ammo, then a switch to brass case

I actually see it quite a bit from steel case ammo, that and eroded gas ports and gas blocks, I’ve seen gas blocks with holes burned right through them

Sometimes it’s the less obvious things that cause problems
 
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FYI
Wolf never imported nor manufactured ammunition with a lacquer coating on the cartridge casing. It has always been an acrylic-polymer coating, first a clear one, and in the last decade mostly a more "frosted" coating. People often incorrectly referred to the clear coating as "lacquer" and claimed it "melted" in the chamber of heated firearms, but it was obviously not lacquer, and numerous articles and videos online have shown that even a blowtorch won't melt the coating or even soften it, disproving the myth of "melted lacquer".

Tests have shown that steel-cased Wolf cases do not obturate sufficiently to form a good gas seal against the chamber when compared to brass-cased ammunition. As a result, when Wolf cartridges are fired, some of the combustion by-products are deposited between the case and the chamber, causing a buildup of carbon that is well in excess of normal. Firing a brass case (that does expand fully) after using Wolf ammunition without cleaning the gun first can result in the brass case being "glued" into the chamber by the carbon buildup. This issue has nothing to do with the lacquer coating vaporizing or melting, as has mistakenly been suggested. The problem is one of carbon deposition, which creates the same end result (i.e.; a stuck cartridge that has jammed in the chamber).

Note: all ammunition currently manufactured by Wolf has polymer-coated or brass cartridge cases, and any obturation problems have been radically reduced.
Click to expand...
 
I had a similar problem when I first got my previously owned AR a few years back. Worked great for a bunch of mags, then started having failure to feed’s. Turns out the gas block had gotten a bit loose/wobbly and wasn’t getting enough pressure into the system to snag the next round.

Worth a check but that’s all I can offer.
 
ScottS said:
FYI
Click to expand...

FYI

Where in my post did I mention wolf specifically?

I stated steel cases , no particular brand

I know it maybe hard to believe but Some steel cases ammo (including some wolf ammo) states it right on the box

Laquor coated steel Ammo is not a myth but wolfs marketing defense may be

Not everything you read online is true , especially from manufacturers or industry partners protecting profits
 

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Considering I was helping the guy on the range that eventually went to @sschevy's shop and saw all the shit coming out...
I'm willing to attest he isnt full of shit talking about steel cased ammo.
 

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