I have to tell this Texas divorce story-gun related

[News Shooter]

I'll try to be concise.

So I'm divorced in Ft. Worth in 1999 (Her decision) I have two sons 12 and 9.

I moved to Austin to take a really good job. Austin was (and is) heaven to me.

I made arrangements to fly the boys down once a month for visitation. I had joined a couple of skeet clubs, the Austin Archery Club, got involved in Cowboy Shooting, etc...all the things my anti-wife refused to allow.

So my boys come down and I took them dove hunting, to the range, skeet shooting, everything. They had a great time.

Of course, upon arrival back in Dallas they told my ex everything they had done.

A couple of days later I get this registered letter from the court in Ft. Worth telling me that my ex had filed some kind of motion to declare me an unfit parent and to deny visitation because I was exposing my boys to firearms.

I was apoplectic, as you can imagine. I called my lawyer and she said she would handle it.

There was a hearing scheduled a couple of weeks later in Ft. Worth. I didn't attend, but Cheryl (my attorney) said the hearing lasted three minutes.

The bitch's lawyer read his statement about me being a dangerous influence and the judge laughed out loud and immediately dismissed the motion.

God bless Texas

And why in God's name did I ever leave?

 

[drgrant]

I'm surprised the judge didn't say something like "I should hold you in contempt for wasting our time..."

-Mike

 

[kurtb]

HooK 'em Horns! Texas - where America still lives on!!!

 

[News Shooter]

I'm surprised the judge didn't say something like "I should hold you in contempt for wasting our time..."

-Mike

No kidding

 

[Cato]

I lived in the Fort Worth area for 10 years and visit regularly. My wife is from there. You’re right, it is a great place.

 

[gene]

Love Texas, Just wish I could get the Wife to move!

 

[Tim111]

Texas rules.... Here in Mass. you would have lost custody and been sent to jail for child endangerment.

 

[Bob P]

I'll try to be concise.

So I'm divorced in Ft. Worth in 1999 (Her decision) I have two sons 12 and 9.

I moved to Austin to take a really good job. Austin was (and is) heaven to me.

I made arrangements to fly the boys down once a month for visitation. I had joined a couple of skeet clubs, the Austin Archery Club, got involved in Cowboy Shooting, etc...all the things my anti-wife refused to allow.

So my boys come down and I took them dove hunting, to the range, skeet shooting, everything. They had a great time.

Of course, upon arrival back in Dallas they told my ex everything they had done.

A couple of days later I get this registered letter from the court in Ft. Worth telling me that my ex had filed some kind of motion to declare me an unfit parent and to deny visitation because I was exposing my boys to firearms.

I was apoplectic, as you can imagine. I called my lawyer and she said she would handle it.

There was a hearing scheduled a couple of weeks later in Ft. Worth. I didn't attend, but Cheryl (my attorney) said the hearing lasted three minutes.

The bitch's lawyer read his statement about me being a dangerous influence and the judge laughed out loud and immediately dismissed the motion.

God bless Texas

And why in God's name did I ever leave?

Excellent story!

 

[terraformer]

Are the kids active sportsmen now they are 22 and 19?

 

[matt1956]

Texas rules.... Here in Mass. you would have lost custody and been sent to jail for child endangerment.

sad but true

good story.

now to convince the wife to lets us pack up the kids and head to Texas

 

[News Shooter]

Are the kids active sportsmen now they are 22 and 19?

Both came to live with me here after their idiot mother couldn't handle them.
The 22 year old is totally consumed with finishing his business degree so he can start getting rich.

I haven't see the 18 year old since he pulled a switchblade on me three years ago and I had to take out a CHINS on him. I believe he went back to Texas.

Those of you who are parents understand you just do the best you can. Sometimes things are out of your control.

 

[doobie]

Texas rules.... Here in Mass. you would have lost custody and been sent to jail for child endangerment.

Not to mention 209A against you...and loss of your 2a rights forever

 

[EddieCoyle]

I had similar circumstances but we never ended up in court because my ex (although a big time anti) has the ability to think things through.

When my son was 8 (he's 15 now), he became interested in guns, so I bought him a .22 rifle. One of his friends (we'll call him "Larry") also had an interest in guns, and also went shooting with his Dad. Larry's dad is a knucklehead, and a professional alcoholic.

When my ex heard that I'd taken my son shooting with a "real gun" she hit the roof. My response was, "When it's my time with the kids, we do what I want to do." She said, "We'll see about that." - implying that she was going to drag me into court. I said, "Fine, but think about this: He has an interest in guns, and he's going to be around them somewhere whether you like it or not. Would you rather have him learn from me or Larry's dad?"

She thought about it and said, "Good point."

 

[terraformer]

Both came to live with me here after their idiot mother couldn't handle them.
The 22 year old is totally consumed with finishing his business degree so he can start getting rich.

I haven't see the 18 year old since he pulled a switchblade on me three years ago and I had to take out a CHINS on him. I believe he went back to Texas.

Those of you who are parents understand you just do the best you can. Sometimes things are out of your control.

Your oldest will need to get rich if he wants to get into the shooting sports. Sorry to hear about your youngest. Hopefully he will get past it when he gets through that age bracket. A lot do, they just need to figure stuff out on their own.

 

[News Shooter]

Your oldest will need to get rich if he wants to get into the shooting sports. Sorry to hear about your youngest. Hopefully he will get past it when he gets through that age bracket. A lot do, they just need to figure stuff out on their own.

He will thanks. He's a lot smarter than I was. The divorce really screwed him up
and he blames me for it even today

 

[News Shooter]

I had similar circumstances but we never ended up in court because my ex (although a big time anti) has the ability to think things through.

When my son was 8 (he's 15 now), he became interested in guns, so I bought him a .22 rifle. One of his friends (we'll call him "Larry") also had an interest in guns, and also went shooting with his Dad. Larry's dad is a knucklehead, and a professional alcoholic.

When my ex heard that I'd taken my son shooting with a "real gun" she hit the roof. My response was, "When it's my time with the kids, we do what I want to do." She said, "We'll see about that." - implying that she was going to drag me into court. I said, "Fine, but think about this: He has an interest in guns, and he's going to be around them somewhere whether you like it or not. Would you rather have him learn from me or Larry's dad?"

She thought about it and said, "Good point."

I simply can't imagine having a reasonable conversation like that with my ex

 

[EddieCoyle]

I simply can't imagine having a reasonable conversation like that with my ex

I think if we'd stayed married for an additional year, our "reasonable" conversations would be non-existent. We got out in time.

 

[Brian48]

I simply can't imagine having a reasonable conversation like that with my ex

Me neither. When I hear about all the marrital horror stories, I am so glad I never married my first finance. She opposed me in just about every point of view I could think of and was about the most self-centered, spoiled brat I ever met. Broke it off just months before we got hitched. Best damn decision I ever made. And she still couldn't believe that it was me that dumped her.

Finally met my "real" wife a few of years later.

 

[rwl1955]

Texas

I'll try to be concise.

So I'm divorced in Ft. Worth in 1999 (Her decision) I have two sons 12 and 9.

I moved to Austin to take a really good job. Austin was (and is) heaven to me.

I made arrangements to fly the boys down once a month for visitation. I had joined a couple of skeet clubs, the Austin Archery Club, got involved in Cowboy Shooting, etc...all the things my anti-wife refused to allow.

So my boys come down and I took them dove hunting, to the range, skeet shooting, everything. They had a great time.

Of course, upon arrival back in Dallas they told my ex everything they had done.

A couple of days later I get this registered letter from the court in Ft. Worth telling me that my ex had filed some kind of motion to declare me an unfit parent and to deny visitation because I was exposing my boys to firearms.

I was apoplectic, as you can imagine. I called my lawyer and she said she would handle it.

There was a hearing scheduled a couple of weeks later in Ft. Worth. I didn't attend, but Cheryl (my attorney) said the hearing lasted three minutes.

The bitch's lawyer read his statement about me being a dangerous influence and the judge laughed out loud and immediately dismissed the motion.

God bless Texas

And why in God's name did I ever leave?

********
I just came back from San Antonio yesterday. The Army requested my presence at FT.Sam
Houston.

 

[GSG]

Texas is great, but they have a heck of a lot of places where you can't carry a gun. How weird is it that you can carry a gun more places in Mass. than in Texas?

 

[cekim]

Texas is great, but they have a heck of a lot of places where you can't carry a gun. How weird is it that you can carry a gun more places in Mass. than in Texas?

Same in FL - in some cases its a quesiton of property rights though...

MA says that pretty much no one but the state or police can prohibit you from carrying into a any given place (i.e. "no guns allowed" signs on "private" venues have no force of law behind them).

FL and TX say that the owner of the property can refuse to allow them and you can suck it up and go in unarmed, or choose to take your business elsewhere...

Freedom isn't an easy thing - one person's rights frequently infringe on another... Which is why true anarchy doesn't work...

 

[Rob Boudrie]

in some cases its a quesiton of property rights though..

Actually, it's the result of the fact that shall issue CCW in these states was introduced in the modern times with legislative oppostion, rather than the older CCW laws (NY, MA, RI, etc. ) that were simply designed to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong sort of people.

FL and TX say that the owner of the property can refuse to allow them and you can suck it up and go in unarmed, or choose to take your business elsewhere...

The TX statute is 30.06, and has very specific posting requirements. Miss an entrance, use the wrong size lettering, or don't include the Spanish and the posting is invalid even if the carrier speaks only English.

Can you provide a cite for FL (either statutory or case law)? I have seen this asserted, but have not been able to find the actual statute. I'm looking for a statute that states that violation of the sign is a criminal offense; not one that simply confirms that the property owner has the right to order you to leave if they wish.

 

[cekim]

Can you provide a cite for FL? I have seen this asserted, but have not been able to find the actual statute. I'm looking for a statute that states that violation of the sign is a criminal offense; not one that simply confirms that the property owner has the right to order you to leave if they wish.

I'll have to check with the FL relates... It's been 10+ years since I lived there, I only get sporadic communiques through over the wall here in PRM

 

[jobowker]

My sister in law lives in Austin. It's a great little city and if I could find a lateral job move, I'd do it in a heartbeat. My wife would jump at the chance.

 

[GSG]

Can you provide a cite for FL (either statutory or case law)? I have seen this asserted, but have not been able to find the actual statute. I'm looking for a statute that states that violation of the sign is a criminal offense; not one that simply confirms that the property owner has the right to order you to leave if they wish.

Florida has no law to enforce "no guns" signs except in places prohibited in the 790 statutes. They can tell you to leave, but it's not a crime to bring one there. It is a crime if the gun is deemed "openly carried" or "displayed in a rude or careless manner."

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC053.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0790->Section%20053#0790.053

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.--

(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.

(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:

(a) A self-defense chemical spray.

(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.

(3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC10.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0790->Section%2010#0790.10

790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.--If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

And agreed, they had to make their concealed carry laws politically friendly when they passed them, because it was only very recently that Florida passed their laws. Florida had one of their lawmakers fiercely fighting in 1987 to make it illegal to carry a gun into a church or house of worship (like Texas), but thankfully it didn't pass.

Funnily enough, the same argument they made for allowing church carry could easily be applied to schools.

 

[cekim]

Florida has no law to enforce "no guns" signs except in places prohibited in the 790 statutes. They can tell you to leave, but it's not a crime to bring one there.

Thanks for the clarification...

FWIW, my point on property rights had nothing to do with the legislative intent, just pointing out that one-mans right to carry count infringe upon another's right to refuse service...

 

[Blitz1]

I thought concealed means concealed. Aside from metal detectors what's the issue?

 

[GSG]

This is what I was talking about before WRT church carry:

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Getchell1.htm

Included in the Act is a list of places where even a licensed person is prohibited from carrying concealed firearms and weapons.[279] This list was substantially revised by the House and Senate committees that took up the bill. The House Criminal Justice Committee added to the list police, sheriff, and highway patrol stations, in order to extend to those places the same level of protection given to courthouses and jails.[280] The Committee also added a provision to allow judges to carry concealed weapons in their courtrooms, and to allow them to decide who else may do so.[281] The intent of this addition was to provide protection to judges as law enforcement officers, and to give judges the discretion to allow lawyers, bailiffs and others in the courtroom who may be at risk to carry a concealed weapon. The Committee also adopted amendments striking a prohibition against carrying weapons on property used for religious purposes on the theory that the clergy and the citizenry are exposed to unique dangers in places of worship, specifically terrorist attacks and attacks spurred by anti-semitism and racism.[282] An exemption was deleted that would have allowed licensed university students, faculty and employees to carry concealed weapons on campus, while prohibiting all other license- [Page 787] holders from doing so.[283] This section was further amended by the Senate Judiciary-Criminal Committee[284] and by the House on the floor.[285] In its final form, the Act allows licensed students, employees, and faculty members of colleges or universities to carry on campus "a stun gun or non-lethal electrical weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes [that] does not fire a dart or projectile."[286] Commuters driving on to campus would not violate this section if they had a gun in the glove compartment.[287]

The way I see it, the wave of school shootings like at Virginia Tech and others are clearly "terrorist attacks," and like churches, people in schools are now uniquely vulrenable to such an attack.

FWIW, my point on property rights had nothing to do with the legislative intent, just pointing out that one-mans right to carry count infringe upon another's right to refuse service...

Are you saying that you think business owners should have the right to restrict who carries on their property? If so, I strongly disagree with you.

But in a nice way.

 

[GSG]

I thought concealed means concealed. Aside from metal detectors what's the issue?

A lot of circumstances could come up where people could find out you have a gun. Wardrobe malfunction, heart attack resulting in gun's exposure, lawful self defense, or any number of other things.

But more importantly, as a law-abiding citizen, my aim is to know and obey the law, even ones I might not agree with.

 

[cekim]

Are you saying that you think business owners should have the right to restrict who carries on their property? If so, I strongly disagree with you.

Well, to be honest, I am saying they should, but I am not happy about it

It creates an unpleasant dynamic that I'd rather avoid, but the reality of property rights of a business owner compels me to say that as an owner of a business, why shouldn't I have such a right?

Is it wise to exercise such a right and create yet another dangerous "gun free zone"? Well, that's another issue...

My frosty libertarian side says that owners have rights too... My crispy 2A side says F-OFF