Sending a copy of my LTC is the most I would have to do, if there were any places that would ship to me. Which, of course, there are not.
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I had a gun store owner tell me that mail order ammo is against the law
- Thread starter hminsky
- Start date
Sending a copy of my LTC is the most I would have to do, if there were any places that would ship to me. Which, of course, there are not.
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Only from Mass dealers and only with a permit
Go talk to Carl at Four Seasons - he's had plenty of conversations with the AG's (Attorney General's) office... as he explained to me - the only thing he can accept to sell ammo is the Mass permit - no Federal badges/ID (no FBI, Secret Service, etc.), even cops in uniform without their permit he won't sell to - and said he got that straight from the AG
FYI - the AG takes the position that only licensed ammunition dealers can sell in Mass (and ammo can only be sold to permit holders - hence must see permit) and their office has conducted stings and whacked some of the online sellers with heavy fines - this has been documented in the media - see article below.
Sure - you can find some online sellers who haven't gotten 'stung' - but the savvier ones won't sell to you online.
And by the way - any component of ammunition (cases, powder, bullets, primers) are considered ammunition under Mass state law (MGL Chap 140) - so you can't be sold that through mail order/UPS - or buy or possess it without a permit. A kid in my local high school had a belt made of empty shell casings and the school resource office busted him for possessing ammunition without a permit.
As for the dealer who sold to you with showing a license - he's risking a lot - if there was some undercover AG guy there (Carl said they visit from time to time) - he could be looking at a lot of unnecessary hassle - why bother, when all you have to do is ask to see a permit?
On the other hand - you can go to NH, ME, CT and buy all you want without showing a permit. Go figure.
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State sues 10 online vendors of weapons and ammunition
Four to pay fine; others face court
By Katie Nelson and Daniela Cako, Globe Correspondents | August 20, 2004
Swords tucked into canes, a stun gun that doubles as a fake cellphone, and knives hidden in such items as a ballpoint pen, a lipstick tube, and a bright yellow comb were among weapons purchased on the Internet by state investigators as part of a recent undercover investigation, Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly said yesterday.
Selling such weapons in Massachusetts or shipping them here is against the law, and the state is suing 10 online weapon and ammunition vendors as a result of a yearlong probe, Reilly said during a press conference yesterday in his Boston office. It is also illegal to ship ammunition from out of state without verifying that the buyer has a license to carry a firearm.
Four of the companies have agreed to pay a $5,000 fine; the others are due at a court hearing next month.
"It's frightening, it's absolutely frightening that weapons of this nature can get in anyone's hands," Reilly said. "It's just a dangerous, dangerous thing."
Reilly displayed a table full of the investigators' undercover online purchases. Numerous weapons disguised as innocuous objects lay next to more familiar instruments of human injury. The sharp blades of 14 throwing stars glinted next to the dull plastic of slingshots, nunchucks, and stun guns.
"If this hits you, you're going down; you're staying down," he said, holding up a 300,000-volt stun gun. "These are similar to the stun guns the police use to subdue. They don't belong in the hands of children. They don't belong in the hands of criminals."
Especially disturbing, Reilly said, was the sale or marketing of the weapons to youth.
A sword with silver spikes on its handle, a replica of a weapon in the animated movie "Heavy Metal 2000," was one youth-oriented item bought as a part of the investigation, Reilly said.
"For these weapons to get into the hands of a child, it's terribly dangerous," he said.
New Bedford police assisted the investigation after officials there became alarmed after a teenager bought a stun gun online and used it last October to zap two friends at Greater New Bedford Regional Vocational Technical High School, said Chief Carl K. Moniz.
The attorney general's office also discussed youth access to weapons with the Lowell Police Department, where officers frequently confiscate switchblades, double-edge knives, and throwing stars, said Chief Edward Davis.
"This takes the source of supply from the kids who are Internet-savvy and are able to procure the weapons from these sites," Davis said. "The fact that they are now going to have difficulty doing it may decrease the supply on the streets."
The vendors named in the suit were Talley Security Products of Flagstaff, Ariz.; Lifestyle Fascination of Lakewood, N.J.; Bynoon.com of Dunlap, Tenn.; Martial Arts Gear of Lafayette, La.; Discount Martial Art Supply of Winnetka, Calif.; C&M Enterprises of Fort Gaines, Ga.; and copgear.net of Killeen, Texas. The ammunition dealers named were C&EJ's Hunting and Fishing of Upper Marlboro, Md.; Dan's Sporting Goods of New Kensington, Pa.; and Marksman's Mart of Pinckney, Mich.
Edwin K. Talley runs Talley Security Products out of his Flagstaff home, selling mostly pepper spray, stun guns, and mailbox alarms. He said he believes that the undercover operation was overkill.
"I was unaware of all the laws of all the states," he said. "I think they could have handled it a little differently, by saying, 'In the future, this is what the deal is.' "
"The frustrating thing is, I've made $110 in sales, four orders to Massachusetts; they tried to sue me for $12,000," said Talley, who settled for $5,000.
"This is a small one person with a living room business, not a big organization," he said.
Like most all of the other vendor sites, Talley's had a disclaimer that says it is the buyer's responsibility to make sure the sale complies with local and state laws.
State officials said that didn't matter. Corey Welford, a spokesman for Reilly, said it is the seller's responsibility to know what is legal to sell in which state, including Massachusetts.
In all, four of the companies -- Talley Security Products, Lifestyle Fascination, Bynoon.com, and Discount Martial Arts supply -- agreed to pay a $5,000 fine and post a statement saying that shipping to Massachusetts is not allowed. The companies will also install software on the websites that block orders from Massachusetts.
The others will appear at a court hearing on Sept. 10, officials said.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma..._10_online_vendors_of_weapons_and_ammunition/
5 FINED FOR ILLEGAL AMMUNITION SALES
Author(s): (Bruce Mohl) Date: October 16, 2003 Page: E2 Section: Business
An undercover sting by Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly's office found five out-of-state companies illegally selling ammuniton to Massachusetts residents over the Internet. The companies didn't have Massachusetts licenses and were failing to verify that customers had a valid gun permit. Sometimes, ammunition was left on a customer's porch by the delivery service, said Assistant Attorney General Glenn Kaplan. Three companies, Discount Distributors of West Berlin, N.J., Midway Arms of Columbia, Mo., and Kiesler's Police Supply of Jeffersonville, Ind., paid $2,500 fines and agreed to comply with the law. Suits were filed yesterday against the Ammo Bank of Rochester, N.Y., and Cascade Ammunition of Roseburg, Ore.
Go talk to Carl at Four Seasons - he's had plenty of conversations with the AG's (Attorney General's) office... as he explained to me - the only thing he can accept to sell ammo is the Mass permit - no Federal badges/ID (no FBI, Secret Service, etc.), even cops in uniform without their permit he won't sell to - and said he got that straight from the AG
FYI - the AG takes the position that only licensed ammunition dealers can sell in Mass (and ammo can only be sold to permit holders - hence must see permit) and their office has conducted stings and whacked some of the online sellers with heavy fines - this has been documented in the media - see article below.
Sure - you can find some online sellers who haven't gotten 'stung' - but the savvier ones won't sell to you online.
And by the way - any component of ammunition (cases, powder, bullets, primers) are considered ammunition under Mass state law (MGL Chap 140) - so you can't be sold that through mail order/UPS - or buy or possess it without a permit. A kid in my local high school had a belt made of empty shell casings and the school resource office busted him for possessing ammunition without a permit.
As for the dealer who sold to you with showing a license - he's risking a lot - if there was some undercover AG guy there (Carl said they visit from time to time) - he could be looking at a lot of unnecessary hassle - why bother, when all you have to do is ask to see a permit?
On the other hand - you can go to NH, ME, CT and buy all you want without showing a permit. Go figure.
-------------------
State sues 10 online vendors of weapons and ammunition
Four to pay fine; others face court
By Katie Nelson and Daniela Cako, Globe Correspondents | August 20, 2004
Swords tucked into canes, a stun gun that doubles as a fake cellphone, and knives hidden in such items as a ballpoint pen, a lipstick tube, and a bright yellow comb were among weapons purchased on the Internet by state investigators as part of a recent undercover investigation, Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly said yesterday.
Selling such weapons in Massachusetts or shipping them here is against the law, and the state is suing 10 online weapon and ammunition vendors as a result of a yearlong probe, Reilly said during a press conference yesterday in his Boston office. It is also illegal to ship ammunition from out of state without verifying that the buyer has a license to carry a firearm.
Four of the companies have agreed to pay a $5,000 fine; the others are due at a court hearing next month.
"It's frightening, it's absolutely frightening that weapons of this nature can get in anyone's hands," Reilly said. "It's just a dangerous, dangerous thing."
Reilly displayed a table full of the investigators' undercover online purchases. Numerous weapons disguised as innocuous objects lay next to more familiar instruments of human injury. The sharp blades of 14 throwing stars glinted next to the dull plastic of slingshots, nunchucks, and stun guns.
"If this hits you, you're going down; you're staying down," he said, holding up a 300,000-volt stun gun. "These are similar to the stun guns the police use to subdue. They don't belong in the hands of children. They don't belong in the hands of criminals."
Especially disturbing, Reilly said, was the sale or marketing of the weapons to youth.
A sword with silver spikes on its handle, a replica of a weapon in the animated movie "Heavy Metal 2000," was one youth-oriented item bought as a part of the investigation, Reilly said.
"For these weapons to get into the hands of a child, it's terribly dangerous," he said.
New Bedford police assisted the investigation after officials there became alarmed after a teenager bought a stun gun online and used it last October to zap two friends at Greater New Bedford Regional Vocational Technical High School, said Chief Carl K. Moniz.
The attorney general's office also discussed youth access to weapons with the Lowell Police Department, where officers frequently confiscate switchblades, double-edge knives, and throwing stars, said Chief Edward Davis.
"This takes the source of supply from the kids who are Internet-savvy and are able to procure the weapons from these sites," Davis said. "The fact that they are now going to have difficulty doing it may decrease the supply on the streets."
The vendors named in the suit were Talley Security Products of Flagstaff, Ariz.; Lifestyle Fascination of Lakewood, N.J.; Bynoon.com of Dunlap, Tenn.; Martial Arts Gear of Lafayette, La.; Discount Martial Art Supply of Winnetka, Calif.; C&M Enterprises of Fort Gaines, Ga.; and copgear.net of Killeen, Texas. The ammunition dealers named were C&EJ's Hunting and Fishing of Upper Marlboro, Md.; Dan's Sporting Goods of New Kensington, Pa.; and Marksman's Mart of Pinckney, Mich.
Edwin K. Talley runs Talley Security Products out of his Flagstaff home, selling mostly pepper spray, stun guns, and mailbox alarms. He said he believes that the undercover operation was overkill.
"I was unaware of all the laws of all the states," he said. "I think they could have handled it a little differently, by saying, 'In the future, this is what the deal is.' "
"The frustrating thing is, I've made $110 in sales, four orders to Massachusetts; they tried to sue me for $12,000," said Talley, who settled for $5,000.
"This is a small one person with a living room business, not a big organization," he said.
Like most all of the other vendor sites, Talley's had a disclaimer that says it is the buyer's responsibility to make sure the sale complies with local and state laws.
State officials said that didn't matter. Corey Welford, a spokesman for Reilly, said it is the seller's responsibility to know what is legal to sell in which state, including Massachusetts.
In all, four of the companies -- Talley Security Products, Lifestyle Fascination, Bynoon.com, and Discount Martial Arts supply -- agreed to pay a $5,000 fine and post a statement saying that shipping to Massachusetts is not allowed. The companies will also install software on the websites that block orders from Massachusetts.
The others will appear at a court hearing on Sept. 10, officials said.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma..._10_online_vendors_of_weapons_and_ammunition/
5 FINED FOR ILLEGAL AMMUNITION SALES
Author(s): (Bruce Mohl) Date: October 16, 2003 Page: E2 Section: Business
An undercover sting by Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly's office found five out-of-state companies illegally selling ammuniton to Massachusetts residents over the Internet. The companies didn't have Massachusetts licenses and were failing to verify that customers had a valid gun permit. Sometimes, ammunition was left on a customer's porch by the delivery service, said Assistant Attorney General Glenn Kaplan. Three companies, Discount Distributors of West Berlin, N.J., Midway Arms of Columbia, Mo., and Kiesler's Police Supply of Jeffersonville, Ind., paid $2,500 fines and agreed to comply with the law. Suits were filed yesterday against the Ammo Bank of Rochester, N.Y., and Cascade Ammunition of Roseburg, Ore.
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+1. That's just what I was thinking. "Savvier" implies that the merchants who do ship here (if there were any, that is
) are doing it without realizing the implications of what they're doing. That's definitely, in at least certain cases, a mis-characterization of the situation.
Everyone quotes Tom Riley. He's gone, and I realize the damage he has done to gun owners. What is Martha Coakley's take on these items she is the top cop now. I don't hear half the drivel I did while Riley was AG.
There isn't a law,which I think is the point of this thread.
commerce
my take is riley violated the commerce clause but in Mass they do as they please.a lot of companies wont do any business with Mass.If you have to buy from dealer they can sooner or later control you.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
my take is riley violated the commerce clause but in Mass they do as they please.a lot of companies wont do any business with Mass.If you have to buy from dealer they can sooner or later control you.
I buy often at Walmarts that don't ask for ID or CCW. Seems 100% without restriction.
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