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I feel for the New Gun Owners...

Nikos said:
I my self wonder how we got here, things are also bad here in CT. When I went through Eastern Mass last Fall I stopped at the Minuteman NHS. I walked the Battle Road. I was thinking , were did we get such men?
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****
The public turned into sheeple and elected liberals.
 
orb451 said:
I think it's pretty clear by now that the end game is something like Australia and/or any other European countries that Liberals often fap over in reference to guns, society and guns or shooting in general. They're hopeless hoplophobes and the sooner the guns are "gone", the better. We NEED more young people getting into the sport and encouraging others to do the same. Unfortunately we're fighting the common notion that anyone "into" guns is a "gun nut". Not that it's true or accurate, but we see it constantly elsewhere.
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IMHO the gun nut thing is only a "mass shithole viewpoint" and its completely different in most of the rest of the country. The garbage that happens in the half dozen or so anti shithole states really isn't representative of most of the rest of the country. I also don't think we're dealing with UK / AU style bullshit, WRT gun control measures. Not likely in the near term.

That having been said... What is likely though- is a continued cultural erosion over time. The antis have already had their nose broken by us a few times, but that won't stop them from trying stuff. Look at what has been going on, they have rapidly been moving to "third way" gun control. Shitberg isn't financing lobbying at the federal level because he knows they can't assault head on, so hes going 10 layers down instead, eg, "death by a thousand cuts in different places" Watch, the next phase is going to be stuff like attacking gun ranges and trying to shut them down, that kind of thing.

Getting young people invovled is important, and not even this generation of adults, but the next one is the one that concenrs me the most... because however shitty the conditioning was to a current 21+ year old when they were in school... the current "under 18s" are getting a lot worse dose of it.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
IMHO the gun nut thing is only a "mass shithole viewpoint" and its completely different in most of the rest of the country. The garbage that happens in the half dozen or so anti shithole states really isn't representative of most of the rest of the country. I also don't think we're dealing with UK / AU style bullshit, WRT gun control measures. Not likely in the near term.
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In my experience, any rational, sane individual can see the difference between owning guns and being a "gun nut". The notion I'm talking about is a far Left Liberal one and I've seen it first hand in every area where they congregate. It's the pejorative du jour for them and it's pathetic actually, but that's a separate discussion.

I'm pretty sure HRC herself was in favor of (publicly) looking to "Australia style" gun control so I don't think it's far off. Not from her directly mind you, but from others that will likely run in 2020 and beyond (READ Kamel-toe Harris, Warren, etc.).

As far as the death from a thousand cuts goes, and cultural erosion in general, I think you're right on the money. Likewise for those under 18 nowadays. Unfortunately.
 
drgrant said:
If you're young you have an advantage in that you can easily escape all this bullshit by not making a plan to avoid putting down roots here. Lots of us made that mistake...

If you choose to live/stay here, the best thing you can do is fight/ignore/dodge most of this crap (and most of it is dodgable).

There are basically two groups of gun owners in MA:

-Those that get pretty much whatever they want and mostly enjoy life (contrary to popular belief, and whether maura likes it or not, ARs/AK/glocks/krapbers whatever are still being sold/made/whatever in MA).
-Those that sit around crying and armflapping about the dumb laws and stupidity like handgun compliance and blah blah blah... but never do anything about it or logically think about (often 100% legal) solutions to their plight. These people spend more time going "woe is me" or "woe is us" than they do fixing the problem or working around it.

I do agree that everything is EXTREMELY intimidating for someone that is new or a young person though. (I think the shitbirds in MA designed it this way on purpose, more than just vs young people, but to make the process intimidating for anyone) Hell it was a huge pain in the ass many years ago when I got my first LTC, that is not a "new" thing. That said, once you get licensed and become armed with information (and the ability to think for oneself, including reading between the lines) then things get a lot easier...

....unless, of course, the mentality is being afraid of one's own shadow, then it'll never stop being tough. In case you haven't noticed there is a crying towel club in the MA gun owner realm, and the tears never stop... lol. Most of the rest of us burned those f***ing towels a long time ago and moved on from that place mentally. It's unhealthy, and it ain't productive. Crying is a waste of time. Old-school networking, not so much. When you can, do things like take up competitive shooting, or various RKBA events, etc. A little bit of conversation goes a long way.

-Mike
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I don't know if I want to up and leave, with all my friends, and family here. Like I said, it's balance. There's always ways to bend and prod at the rules and conventions. Like cheap land in another state. Recreational land starts at like 500 bucks in Florida. I'm not sure if that qualifies you for an instate permit, registering cars there, etc, but it's a step in the right direction.
(Also, it's pretty sick how that stuff works. Buy a third of an acre and have access to like 10,000 acres to hunt, fish, wheel, camp, shoot, etc.)
Superspeeders does a video on Montana plates, tons of supercars are registered there because there's no inspection, no legal requirement for the vehicle to be in that state (states like MA say any vehicle in the state 6 months has to be registered here, good luck proving that though), and no tax on the vehicle.
There's a million hacks like that. They exist for boats (I've seen boats registered to bikini atoll, the uninhabitable a-bomb test site), llc's (Delaware) excise taxes (Read up on how your town and the state collects them), and countless other things. Some research and a little work can save tons of money.

Masswhole said:
Mike's right that the laws are intimidating but that work arounds exist.
While I understand not wanting to list them all on public forums it's important that the info is openly passed at the club and among other shooters.
I've been fortunate enough to have some great info passed along to me when buying guns FTF, the range and a NES shoot.
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There are a bunch of legal work arounds, not hard to find those. (Offline) Networking rules, too.
 
J_in_MA said:
Its not the time its the $$$
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If I have enough time I can get a post-94 AR or AK in mass, no problem for around what it cost before 7/20.
walter-in-restaurant.jpg


-Mike
 
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There is a similar pattern between Healy and people overprice guns to prey on newbies.

Sellers: If you don't like the price, don't buy it. It's a free market.
Healy: if you don't like MA, move, it's a free world.

They all sound right if you are morally equivalent.
 
gunofthrones said:
There is a similar pattern between Healy and people overprice guns to prey on newbies.

Sellers: If you don't like the price, don't buy it. It's a free market.
Healy: if you don't like MA, move, it's a free world.

They all sound right if you are morally equivalent.
Click to expand...

Faulty/Crap analogy.

Healy is abusing government power or position (to deprive someone of rights) and the other person is just being a prick, but it's his or her right to be a
prick because that's how free markets work. As a buyer you are entitled to exactly NOTHING. Pretty huge difference between the two.

Not to mention it's trivially easy to avoid an overprice compared to moving out. There's MA garbage moron price and then there's the real market; if newbies
put down their crying towel for an hour or two they would figure out that they have to access the real market to not get ripped off. Or at least be an informed
buyer so they can negotiate a better price or meet someone halfway. (I'm not even really that good of a negotiator by any stretch and I've been able to do it successfully a few times without looking like a skinflint cheap prick type in the process- instead of dry begging for a discount you need to better pitch yourself as a
buyer... ) Do research. Find out what the average low vs high real market price is. Find someone locally that owns (X). There's probably a 50% chance they
didn't overpay for it. Put in a little legwork. Do it often enough and then as time goes on the transactional cost of doing it drops. It's like doing your own
brakes or something. Once you've obtained the tools and put in the time, from there on out you get to cash out on that knowledge every time down the
road. These are life skills that pay dividends in a lot of other things.

Most of the people that actually buy overpriced shit are just lazy, I find it hard to believe that nobody ever says "Well, maybe I need to do a little bit of research to make sure this price isn't pure bullshit before committing to paying it. " Or they're so excited that they slam the money down on the counter for that pre 98 worn over 2nd gen $700 Glock 27 at you know where.... lol.

Also FWIW, the "to prey on newbies" stuff is being a bit disingenuous- I've run into plenty of non newbies who likely still pay overprices, too. (and still
whine constantly, too). Hell some of them around here I even put tips in their lap and they still whined. Years ago I remember this one guy "Bweah I wanna Gwock 36 they like $900!! bweaaah!" I sent him a link to TWO DIFFERENT ads for some guy in western MA that had a couple of them for sale (mint condtn) for like $475 ea (he was changing platforms so he sold his guns) and the guy who was whining was like "BUT WESTERN MA THATS TOO FAAR! BWEEAAAH! " at that point I was more like "*facepalm* dude I'm helping you save like $300+ but you don't want to be bothered to drive down a highway? lmao. " at that point I stopped bothering, unless I know someone personally.... and they ask. Most people can't be bothered to get out of their own way.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Faulty/Crap analogy.

Healy is abusing government power or position (to deprive someone of rights) and the other person is just being a prick, but it's his or her right to be a
prick because that's how free markets work. As a buyer you are entitled to exactly NOTHING. Pretty huge difference between the two.

Not to mention it's trivially easy to avoid an overprice compared to moving out. There's MA garbage moron price and then there's the real market; if newbies
put down their crying towel for an hour or two they would figure out that they have to access the real market to not get ripped off. Or at least be an informed
buyer so they can negotiate a better price or meet someone halfway. (I'm not even really that good of a negotiator by any stretch and I've been able to do it successfully a few times without looking like a skinflint cheap prick type in the process- instead of dry begging for a discount you need to better pitch yourself as a
buyer... ) Do research. Find out what the average low vs high real market price is. Find someone locally that owns (X). There's probably a 50% chance they
didn't overpay for it. Put in a little legwork. Do it often enough and then as time goes on the transactional cost of doing it drops. It's like doing your own
brakes or something. Once you've obtained the tools and put in the time, from there on out you get to cash out on that knowledge every time down the
road. These are life skills that pay dividends in a lot of other things.

Most of the people that actually buy overpriced shit are just lazy, I find it hard to believe that nobody ever says "Well, maybe I need to do a little bit of research to make sure this price isn't pure bullshit before committing to paying it. " Or they're so excited that they slam the money down on the counter for that pre 98 worn over 2nd gen $700 Glock 27 at you know where.... lol.

Also FWIW, the "to prey on newbies" stuff is being a bit disingenuous- I've run into plenty of non newbies who likely still pay overprices, too. (and still
whine constantly, too). Hell some of them around here I even put tips in their lap and they still whined. Years ago I remember this one guy "Bweah I wanna Gwock 36 they like $900!! bweaaah!" I sent him a link to TWO DIFFERENT ads for some guy in western MA that had a couple of them for sale (mint condtn) for like $475 ea (he was changing platforms so he sold his guns) and the guy who was whining was like "BUT WESTERN MA THATS TOO FAAR! BWEEAAAH! " at that point I was more like "*facepalm* dude I'm helping you save like $300+ but you don't want to be bothered to drive down a highway? lmao. " at that point I stopped bothering, unless I know someone personally.... and they ask. Most people can't be bothered to get out of their own way.

-Mike
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I've definitely put in the effort on armslist and here to find something, and on occasion stuff for a fair price does pop up just may not be what I want. I guess when you say have the time (atleast to someone new to it all) it's more just wait for the deal you want to pop up and negotiate correctly as you say.

Again as I branch out, understand things a bit more, and look into joining a club soon (any reccomendations for south coast ma??) Maybe I can learn a few things.

Appreciate the insight even from this thread that it sounds like my keeping an eye on the classifieds is atleast a good starting point.
 
J_in_MA said:
I've definitely put in the effort on armslist and here to find something, and on occasion stuff for a fair price does pop up just may not be what I want. I guess when you say have the time (atleast to someone new to it all) it's more just wait for the deal you want to pop up and negotiate correctly as you say.

Again as I branch out, understand things a bit more, and look into joining a club soon (any reccomendations for south coast ma??) Maybe I can learn a few things.

Appreciate the insight even from this thread that it sounds like my keeping an eye on the classifieds is atleast a good starting point.
Click to expand...

Another good thing to do is make friends with people that buy/sell/trade often. Take up a shooting sport like USPSA, IDPA, or steel challenge, etc... most competitors own an above average number of guns and a lot of the stuff they use is weird and sometimes hard to find. They usually have lots of tips and leads that are useful. Networking helps a lot. I remember telling an FFL that I'm friends with "Hey I am looking for another Colt officers mod, know anyone selling one?" and had a 5 minute convo with him about it and he took my phone number. A couple weeks later I got a call from him and he gave me the number to a guy who happened to be selling one on an FTF, and the price was very reasonable.

-Mike
 
connor said:
I don't know if I want to up and leave, with all my friends, and family here. Like I said, it's balance. There's always ways to bend and prod at the rules and conventions. Like cheap land in another state. Recreational land starts at like 500 bucks in Florida. I'm not sure if that qualifies you for an instate permit, registering cars there, etc, but it's a step in the right direction.
(Offline) Networking rules, too.
Click to expand...

I'm in a different boat but I fully understand where you are coming from. I want out and I want out bad. That being said, I want a house so I can do whatever I want with it, preferably in NH, NC, GA, or AZ. I have enough money to move and set up (down payment etc), but that's it, if something goes wrong I'm totally screwed. As much as I want to leave, I'm going to have to play the long game so I can do it right. So I went pre-94 :).

Connor have you thought about and see about moving to Plaistow or another NH border town? Depending on what you do you could telecommute to cut down on travel and still be close to your friends & family.
 
I think that the biggest long-term national existential threat to gun owners and 2a is the assault on social media. Particularly YouTube and Faceplace.
Instagram and YouTube have created more interest and presented more information about guns that has ever existed before.
The concept of the "gun nut" has been replaced with the friendly, entertaining, informative characters on theTinterwebs. Instagram, for better or worse, has also created a platform for the rapid promotion of firearms and an a shift in terms of firearm "lifestyle" branding ranging from bearded-freedom-clowns to ex-skateboarer-hipsters running around with gucci guns in So-Cal.
This is shifting the demographics toward the younger crowd. Hell I think Hickock is one of the top channels for ages 16-25 (and FPS Russia too still somehow) .
The fact that these companies are demonetizing everything, banning and blocking this content is a way of shutting down the re-popularization of gun culture. I have feeling like all of this combined with all of the Russia-election-bot funny business is going to end up with the government forcing these private companies to make their algorithms/policies more transparent with some sort of regulatory oversight to ensure first amendment rights aren't being violated.
 
Side track here...I was just home in Ireland and blue as the laws are you can buy suppressors all day long. All you need is money, kinda like buying ammo in NH. Hand guns were outlawed years but that never stopped the so called bad guys....just like here. But buy a rifle or shot gun and run a can on them. In this case the grass is actually greener on the other side of the fence....pond!
 
RINO Rebubs and Democrats are both skanks. Baker won by only 40k votes. With at least 400k legal gun owners in MA, you would think we would have more political muscle.
 
Unfortunately, the new gun owner in MA needs to spend a lot of time researching. He or she should join NES, go green, read, read, read, go to events etc.

In a free state you can stroll into a shop grab a BCM/colt/whatever and be gtg. Here, you can still get good stuff, but you have be educated and even then it will cost more.
 
J_in_MA said:
Again as I branch out, understand things a bit more, and look into joining a club soon (any reccomendations for south coast ma??) Maybe I can learn a few things.
Click to expand...

I missed this part of the question, I think it depends on what you mean by southcoast.... You talking like NB etc? I know a few people who go to Sippican and they seem to like it. There was a club down there that used to run USPSA shoots but I think there was a schism a few years ago with fuddery etc. This is something worth starting a new thread on under gun clubs or something. Since the management and the landscape on these changes constantly these days (esp after the sandy hook BS) it pays to get intel.

-Mike
 
Mass-diver said:
Unfortunately, the new gun owner in MA needs to spend a lot of time researching. He or she should join NES, go green, read, read, read, go to events etc.

In a free state you can stroll into a shop grab a BCM/colt/whatever and be gtg. Here, you can still get good stuff, but you have be educated and even then it will cost more.
Click to expand...

Well, kinda, but honestly with a TINY handful of exceptions even most of the free state shops in this part of the country are kinda sparse. Most gun shops have product mixes based on what they can sell on a regular basis, etc.

You still gotta know your product and what its worth, etc. Or a lot of opportunities
exist to get taken.

Friend of mine lived down in Tampa area for awhile in FL. He said most of the
walk in gun shops had rape prices, etc. He ended up inbounding most of his
stuff through FFLs that mostly just did transfers for people because the retail environment sucked so bad. "free or not" it pays to have intel.

Nikos said:
What is this 7/20 that keeps coming up? I don't live in MA, just wondering what i missed.
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On 7/20/16 the mass attorney general (Maura Healy) issued an edict sent out to all licensed MA gun dealers with her creatively reinterpreting the assault weapons ban to be more expansive than actually stated in the law. Her "reinterpretation" has the consequence of banning every post 9/94 AK or AR clone. She also basically insinuated that anyone with one of these rifles has an illegal rifle but that she won't prosecute "anyone who had one on or before the 7/20 cutoff date" although most people view this as a 110% empty threat vs individuals at least. 24 hours or so later pretty much every big dealer had already rolled and shit themselves with fear (admittedly, with half good reason- even a bogus charge levied by the AGs office could put the smaller ones out of business) and basically nobody has been able to buy a "typical" AR or AK from most of them since then, although there are various workarounds, etc. There are at least one or two big lawsuits in the pipeline against the AG currently but all of that legal stuff takes time to marinate and get anywhere in the court system. It's worth noting that despite a bunch of dealers shitting all over the AGs edict for the days surrounding the cutoff and after the cutoff, that not a single one
of them have been prosecuted by the AGs office, however the AGs office has been canoodling with EOPS and leering in the gun registration system and trying to intimidate dealers every time they transfer something "interesting" but has so far avoided gun owners completely. Her "reinterpretation" is in no way based in law whatsoever, so needless to say, since 7/20/16 most gun owners and dealers have been very pissed about it. People have been working around, dodging, and in some cases completely ignore her BS since then. on or around 7/20/16 over 2000 rifles were sold or transferred in MA, although I would bet that number has probably doubled or tripled since then because it has spawned panic buying of other rifles unaffected by her edict like Mini-14s, M1As, etc, or ARs and AKs that have been modified to meet the conditions in the stupid edict. (eg, like guns with a fixed mag and that
kind of thing).

-Mike
 
I intend on leaving everything here that I can(isn't much really). I've already promised my pre-ban M14 mags to someone here at free state pricing if I'm able to get out before him and I won't hose folks on my scary black rifle.

Folks stuck here will be getting bent over more than enough, I see no reason to profit from their continued misery.
 
drgrant said:
I missed this part of the question, I think it depends on what you mean by southcoast.... You talking like NB etc? I know a few people who go to Sippican and they seem to like it. There was a club down there that used to run USPSA shoots but I think there was a schism a few years ago with fuddery etc. This is something worth starting a new thread on under gun clubs or something. Since the management and the landscape on these changes constantly these days (esp after the sandy hook BS) it pays to get intel.

-Mike
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Thanks for this and all the other advise. I'll have to get over to that section this weekend and poke around. Going green and getting involved has been worth it already.
 
sigfanboy13 said:
I'm in a different boat but I fully understand where you are coming from. I want out and I want out bad. That being said, I want a house so I can do whatever I want with it, preferably in NH, NC, GA, or AZ. I have enough money to move and set up (down payment etc), but that's it, if something goes wrong I'm totally screwed. As much as I want to leave, I'm going to have to play the long game so I can do it right. So I went pre-94 :).

Connor have you thought about and see about moving to Plaistow or another NH border town? Depending on what you do you could telecommute to cut down on travel and still be close to your friends & family.
Click to expand...

I'm still a ways out from even thinking about moving; I'm still in school. I have no idea what I'm going to be doing or where when I get out, but it's definitely a possibility. I like NH, I used to spend a lot of time in the white mountains area, and I have friends on the seacoast and outside Keene.

I know a few guys who went to Florida and still come back all the time. They work on boats year round and look like they're having a ball. If I have to scrape ice off my windows standing on black ice one more time I might do that lol
 
drgrant said:
Thanks.... well, at least as far as "life regrets in buying and selling guns" I can claim experience, lmao. I made a bunch of newbie mistakes just like everyone else... but eventually I figured out "it doesnt have to be that bad".
Click to expand...

This is what I mean. Some Moderators moderate, and that's fine to keep this all on track. You, Mike, inform guide and caution.
Seasoned Vets to the greenest-of-green members have learned from you. I learn something new everyday. Thanks.
~Matt
 

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