I dont know what to do about this....

[THUNDERCHIEF]

The dad of a friend owns a few guns but his license expired. Once the expiration was realized, I was asked if I would store the guns for a while. But, my friends dad has zero interest in getting his LTC renewed. So, I suggested that we bring his stuff down to Four Seasons to be put on consignment and it was agreed that we would do that. Well, its been a months and his stuff is still here taking up room. If I had enough room I would not care but I need space for my own stuff in my safe (I have been adding to my own inventory). The guy just doesn't want to take the time to go down to FS. I dont own them so I cant go there myself and say "sell these for me". WTF!?

/John

 

[JoeT]

why don't you post what they are. . .maybe there is some interest here, and you could get the 10% consignment fee.

 

[THUNDERCHIEF]

why don't you post what they are. . .maybe there is some interest here, and you could get the 10% consignment fee.

I guess I am not sure, but I figured that he needs a current LTC to do a FTF sale and therefore all his stuff has to be sold via FFL consignment? I am just now realizing that it is a huge assumption on my part. What is the legality here? Maybe I should have posted this in the legal area of the forum.

 

[Garys]

I think that the sales have to through a FFL, but I don't think that the sales have to be by the FFL. Which sounds like a technicality and means that you should ask this question in the legal forum.

 

[drgrant]

I guess I am not sure, but I figured that he needs a current LTC to do a FTF sale and therefore all his stuff has to be sold via FFL consignment? I am just now realizing that it is a huge assumption on my part. What is the legality here?

I think the guns are basically in no mans land- they're not really yours so
you can't sell them... although practically speaking, you could easily put
them on consignment yourself, although that might not be legal and might
put you in a bad spot.

Maybe I should have posted this in the legal area of the forum.

Moved it there for ya.

 

[Turbocharged]

well, it depends on how long you've had them. I think there is a law stating that if there is an item stored on your property for something like 9 months, it becomes yours... IANAL

 

[jdubois]

I guess I am not sure, but I figured that he needs a current LTC to do a FTF sale and therefore all his stuff has to be sold via FFL consignment? I am just now realizing that it is a huge assumption on my part. What is the legality here? Maybe I should have posted this in the legal area of the forum.

He has the choice of either selling them to / transferring them through an FFL (per 128A), or taking them to the police station and transferring them privately once they are in police custody (per 131(m) & 129D).

My suggestion would be to tell the guy you are going to surrender his guns to the local police unless he takes care of the issue. Then turn them over and wipe your hands of the situation.

 

[vellnueve]

Doesn't apply to firearms since a report of transfer is required.

You have to take him and them to an FFL to transfer.

 

[THUNDERCHIEF]

Moved it there for ya.

Thanks Mike.

He has the choice of either selling them to / transferring them through an FFL (per 128A), or taking them to the police station and transferring them privately once they are in police custody (per 131(m) & 129D).

My suggestion would be to tell the guy you are going to surrender his guns to the local police unless he takes care of the issue. Then turn them over and wipe your hands of the situation.

I actually thought about the police thing, but I probably wont do anything like that unless they are here for well over a year and no amount of prodding gets the owner to meet with me. Its in the back of my mind though!

Maybe I should just ask him to send me enough money so I can buy a bigger safe to take care of the space issue.....LOL


/John

 

[drgrant]

Doesn't apply to firearms since a report of transfer is required.

I'm not so sure about that. While the law certainly provides for special "treatment" in some cases (eg, documentation that a "transfer" has occurred) I don't think it actually redefines the rules compared to other objects in regards to unclaimed property.

What happens if the property owner disappears/dies/etc, then what does the guy with the guns actually do, if the owner doesn't have any heirs to transfer the guns from, etc, or the person in possession of the guns doesn't know any of these people? I know more than one person who has been put in this position. Usually they just end up treating the guns as their own. Whether that's legally prudent or not is another story... (I really don't know. )

-Mike

 

[wolf223]

i hope they are cool guns. i'd be blasting them every chance i got and e-mailing video's of me - shooting his guns to him....

another (bad) thought:

how old is he?

 

[THUNDERCHIEF]

i hope they are cool guns. i'd be blasting them every chance i got and e-mailing video's of me - shooting his guns to him....

another (bad) thought:

how old is he?

The owner is in his 50's. Also, most (not all) of the guns have trigger locks on them. I dont have the keys to the trigger locks.

 

[wolf223]

The owner is in his 50's. Also, most (not all) of the guns have trigger locks on them. I dont have the keys to the trigger locks.

The least he could do is give up the keys!

that's F'd up man!



Best of luck

 

[drgrant]

The owner is in his 50's. Also, most (not all) of the guns have trigger locks on them. I dont have the keys to the trigger locks.

I bet a drill press works pretty good on those...

-Mike

 

[jdubois]

What happens if the property owner disappears/dies/etc, then what does the guy with the guns actually do, if the owner doesn't have any heirs to transfer the guns from, etc, or the person in possession of the guns doesn't know any of these people? I know more than one person who has been put in this position. Usually they just end up treating the guns as their own. Whether that's legally prudent or not is another story... (I really don't know. )

I'm way out of my comfort zone on these laws; but I don't see anything in the MGL, at least, defining what happens in such situations (regarding anything, not just guns). Chapter 200A talks about abandoned property, but I believe it is only in regards to property in the possession of the state. It may be that it's all defined in common law, or it may be that I'm just missing it.

 

[ARowley]

tell him rent is due and you want them out or you are keeping them and drilling the locks. Or offer him some sum of money for the whole collection then sell what you don't want.

 

[dwarven1]

Hell, just google "how to defeat a trigger lock" and you'll get a video of some kid sticking a screwdriver into the lock and undoing it in about 25 seconds.

I have the same issue... I have a friend whose Marlin 99 I'm holding. I've even arranged for him to get a FREE class... and he still hasn't done so.

 

[pbearperry]

Tell the guy if he doesen't start moving his butt that you will start shooting and enjoying them.That may motivate him?

 

[HoseHead]

What if the guns are old ?

So, what if the guns were manufactured prior to 1994 ?
Would there be no paper trail stating that you didn't own them yourself ? I remember hearing that transfers prior to 1994 were "lost".
If that is the case and you were old enough and licensed prior to 1994, who's to say they aren't yours to sell. (obviously other than the owner..)
My point is, how do you prove ownership of a gun that is older than 1994 ?

 

[drgrant]

So, what if the guns were manufactured prior to 1994 ?
Would there be no paper trail stating that you didn't own them yourself ? I remember hearing that transfers prior to 1994 were "lost".
If that is the case and you were old enough and licensed prior to 1994, who's to say they aren't yours to sell. (obviously other than the owner..)
My point is, how do you prove ownership of a gun that is older than 1994 ?

IMO the paper trail is, for practical purposes, irrelevant here- even if he went to go sell them through a dealer, practically speaking, he could do so. Nobody ever checks/cares about that information. The idea here, however, is to avoid any possible legal problems. (in this case, if the guy is a pain in the ass, he could say that john stole the guns, blah blah blah... etc. )

What you can "get away with" and what is actually legal are two different things. I would guess that john wanted to know what legal options existed. Whether the guns are papered or not has no
bearing on the legality of the transactions here.

-Mike

 

[jdubois]

What you can "get away with" and what is actually legal are two different things. I would guess that john wanted to know what legal options existed. Whether the guns are papered or not has no bearing on the legality of the transactions here.

Exactly. What is and isn't legal is what is appropriate discussion here. What you can and cannot get away with is often entirely different, and a private matter between you and your conscience.

 

[Rockrivr1]

If it was me, those trigger locks would be gone and I'd be seeing how well they shot.

I also think telling the owner you are turning them over to your local LE would get him motivated. Give him a drop dead date of when your going. If he does nothing about it, you know he doesn't care at all.

 

[Pilgrim]

If you need safe space, since his guns have locks on them, just take them out of the safe and stash them anywhere you have room.

I also think telling the owner you are turning them over to your local LE would get him motivated. Give him a drop dead date of when your going. If he does nothing about it, you know he doesn't care at all.

Send the notice return receipt requested. If he doesn't respond, then keep them, if you want, and file FA10's.

 

[Beansie_Time]

post them in the classifieds here, sell them by shipping them to our FFL's and then give him the money. (after taking your commision and storage fee's out of course.)

 

[MassHack]

What's he got??? The suspense is killing me!!

 

[THUNDERCHIEF]

What's he got??? The suspense is killing me!!

Nothing fancy,

A couple .22 marlin rifles.
A 3030 lever action
A nice Browning shotgun (this thing is LONG)
A SAA type revolver in .22
A Ruger .22 Mark II or III with a super long barrel
A .44 Mag S&W with a super long barrel (I forget the model)
A .357 Mag S&W with a 6" barrel
Also one of those little .22 jobs that you take apart and it all stores inside its own stock.

I think I am forgetting 1 or 2 things tough.

/John

 

[Trupo]

For starters I'm interested in the S&W 6" .357, but onto another option. Something else to consider if this guy won't get off his @ss and resolve his firearms issues, is to threaten that if he doesn't take charge of these weapons (either selling or transferring them) by a certain date, that you will just show up at his house one day with these things and dump 'em right back in his lap. The consequences will be his alone to face, unless you signed a formal agreement taking custody of the weapons as a duly licensed custodian.

 

[pbearperry]

Tired of babysitting someones guns

Tell him he has 2 weeks to get them before you turn them into your local Police.

 

[KMaurer]

While I would never advise one to break the law, the fact that no reliable state transfer records exist prior to 1998 poses an interesting hypothetical situation. If the owner had sold those guns to you prior to that time, there would be no record of that sale, i.e., exactly the same as if he had only recently stored them with you. You'd then be free to sell them (and pay him the money you've owed him for over a decade) FTF, subject to the 4/yr limit. If he didn't really sell them to you back in the 90's then as a former President once observed, "We could do that, but it would be wrong".

Ken