I am confused on FA-10 purpose, if there is no general database per gun owner.

[ZJPierce]

I understand that when buying a handgun IN-STATE the seller is responsible for the FA-10. My question is regarding the purpose of something as a transfer? My understanding is that there is no "list" per individual on what they own and can legally carry, so what is the purpose here?

In addition, if I was "gifted" a handgun from someone in state, if there is no "list" per individual, what are the repercussions of not submitting FA-10?

Finally, What would prevent someone from getting say a Glock from someone out of state, and bringing it back as a carry in Mass ( with a 10 round mag)? Say I had a friend who lived in Texas and he wanted to "give" me his glock. What would prevent me from starting to carry it in Massachusetts if there is no list of approved carry guns per person like NY?

I am not asking these to skirt the law or anything, just trying to get a better understanding on some of this stuff.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

MA registers transfers to keep track of guns because they are the "government". Governments gonna govern.

There actually IS a corelation of firearms transferred to people but it is not complete as certain things don't need to be recorded, such as firearms you move here with.

As for your last questions, Federal law prevents that.

 

[drgrant]

It makes a bunch of moonbat hacks that created it feel good or some BS. Cops also use the list produced by the engine as a "stick" sometimes when doing 209A seizures etc, but good/smart cops don't even really trust or use the thing at all because of the woeful amount of innaccuracy in the system. There are numerous ways that guns either never make it into the system.

As far as repercussions for not filing, that's all outlined in S128A/B. Paper gun violations have a statute of limitations of 6 years. Never heard of anyone getting prosecuted for it, but it's certainly possible.

As far as the compliance BS goes the federal law blocks you on that front (you can't legally buy a handgun from someone of dissimilar residency without involving a dealer in the buyer's state of residence, which blocks you there if you're stuck in MA) although if the guy moved here with it, obtained an LTC, he could also sell you the thing on an FTF. There are other ways around the compliance BS too, consisting of finding dealers that don't give a shit (very rare) or doing a frame transfer. Read the compliance faq sticked at the top of this subforum for more info on this crap.

ETA: If you ever log into the E-FA-10 system disregard all the crap they have printed on that site, it's not legally accurate, it's more of a depection of how some bureocrats want the law to be than one that actually represents what the law says. There are lots of lies printed on that page. (encouraging people to register move in guns, etc, stuff that's clearly exempt).

-Mike

 

[hv55maxx]

in short the purpose of the FA 10 is so .gov knows what you have and where to come pick it up

 

[drgrant]

in short the purpose of the FA 10 is so .gov knows what you have and where to come pick it up

Yeah, but it's somewhat redundant.... once you have an LTC you're basically marked and the assumption is that you will have guns. My ex had a guy living with her who had a warrant on him and when the cops came to pick the guy up they asked her about firearms simply because she was flagged in the system (they wanted to make sure the guy didn't have access to them so they wouldn't get any "surprises" when they came back later to scoop him up, he was gone when they first arrived). Since she has an LTC but never bought anything on it, the system would have come up blank for her.... but this just reinforces what I said earlier.... smart cops don't trust that system at all.

-Mike

 

[ZJPierce]

I know that federal law prevents someone from legally getting a gun from someone out of state, but I guess my question is how is that enforced? Once the gun is gifted, handed under the table, etc..., and say someone from mass starts carrying their newly acquired glock, at what point would someone have to prove where they got the gun from?

It sounds like there are many instances when people will have handguns that are not registered via FA10

 

[drgrant]

I know that federal law prevents someone from legally getting a gun from someone out of state, but I guess my question is how is that enforced? Once the gun is gifted, handed under the table, etc..., and say someone from mass starts carrying their newly acquired glock, at what point would someone have to prove where they got the gun from?

It's not really directly enforced, its more of a "if someone found out about it" you could be flirting with a federal felony.

Hypothetical example. Say you buy a gun from your friend paulie in Freestate, wherever, under the table for 500 bucks. You keep the gun a few years. One day it gets stolen and used in a crime and abandoned at the scene. Cops trace gun. BATFE (feds) traces gun, paulie is a dumbass and runs his mouth that he sold it to you, knowing you are an MA resident.. BATFE agents are jerks and then threatens to prosecute him, he sells you down the river and the rest is history. Obviously the odds off this stuff happening are slim, but not improbable. It's not worth knowingly messing with a felony.

It sounds like there are many instances when people will have handguns that are not registered via FA10

The FA10 bullshit is completely irrelevant in the above scenario. Lots of people have guns not in the system. "Maintaining" registration is not compulsory. It's the act of reporting a transfer as it happens as it is. the S128A/B stuff is patty cake garbage compared to the federal issue above.

-Mike

 

[ZJPierce]

Hey thanks drgrant, appreciate the clarification.
I have no plans of flirty with felonies.

It does sound like a terrible movie, or even a terrible band name however : "Flirting with Felonies"

 

[kalash]

There are countless ways to bypass all the checks and procedures and chances are no one will ever be the wiser. That being said, I can't recommend that anyone commit felonies and hope they don't get caught - might not end well for you.


drgrant - if Paulie's from, say, Vermont, then there's no record of where he got the gun. How would the ATF find him? Sure at some point someone bought it from a store... then sold it to someone else FTF, who then gave it to his BIL, who pawned it, then someone else picked it up from the pawn shop but later sold it at a flea market etc. I have a tough time believing that this could be traced, although granted, the buyer would be taking a risk not knowing any of this colorful history.

What if someone buys a gun on the street from some crackhead named Big Jizz and files an FA10 simply checking off "register" and leaving the seller info blank? Would that raise a flag and cause an inquiry? I realize the stupidity of this example but considering the extremes is fun.

 

[DW357]

drgrant - if Paulie's from, say, Vermont, then there's no record of where he got the gun. How would the ATF find him? Sure at some point someone bought it from a store... then sold it to someone else FTF, who then gave it to his BIL, who pawned it, then someone else picked it up from the pawn shop but later sold it at a flea market etc. I have a tough time believing that this could be traced, although granted, the buyer would be taking a risk not knowing any of this colorful history.

Weren't they able to trace that Ruger that one of the marathon bombers had? If I recall they traced it to the Cabelas in Scarborough Maine? I don't know the details on how they did that. But I'd be curious to know also.

 

[drgrant]

drgrant - if Paulie's from, say, Vermont, then there's no record of where he got the gun.

It's certainly possible for someone to buy a "clean" gun that way, for sure, but that's not really what I was getting at- I was just trying to demonstrate one of the tons of ways it could go badly.

What if someone buys a gun on the street from some crackhead named Big Jizz and files an FA10 simply checking off "register" and leaving the seller info blank? Would that raise a flag and cause an inquiry? I realize the stupidity of this example but considering the extremes is fun.

People do this all the time buying guns off relatives and that kind of thing, to slightly protect their own ass, doesn't mean that the transfer was legal or not, etc. There aren't really any flags raised on a registration, the state just crams that stuff into a database. People who use the system improperly have a high probability of raising flags, though. (like nippleheads who try to use transfer when they should use registration, etc. )

Awhile ago we had a fun topic around here consisting of something like "what do I do if a gun falls from the sky and I catch it?" type hyothetical. A better example is a roommate leaves some guns in your care, moves away and disappears, how to lawfully effect possession, etc... lots of gray areas.

I also run into people who basically admit to not having reported a transfer etc people asking stupid questions like "My grandpa lived in MA and died 15 years ago and gave me this gun but we never passed any paperwork on it, blah blah blah should I register it blah blah blah snort blare etc" I always just tell them to stop thinking about it because the problem happened so far back that it would be difficult to prosecute someone unlawfully transferring something within MA. (particularly given a 6 yr statute of limitations of paper gun violations)

-Mike

 

[knfmn]

Weren't they able to trace that Ruger that one of the marathon bombers had? If I recall they traced it to the Cabelas in Scarborough Maine? I don't know the details on how they did that. But I'd be curious to know also.

Cops can usually track firearms from the manufacturer to the first place they landed easily enough. They can call the manufacturer and give them the serial number. Manufacturer checks their records and says "oh, yeah, we shipped that off to Joe Blow guns in Moose Lick Texas." Joe Blow is then strongly encouraged to cough up the name of the person he sold it to. Many, many moons ago, when I still lived in Tennessee, I got a not so friendly letter from a detective with the Pittsburgh PD. Seems that they had recovered a Glock 19 that was originally sold to me at a crime scene and they would like to know if I had taken any recent trips to the keystone state...lol. Thankfully I had traded that pistol to a dealer on a Contender I had been eyeballing. I happily gave the detective the dealers name and went about my merry way.

 

[Waher]

Anything bought or sold via a FFL is traceable through their bound books.

 

[HarryPottar]

Seems that they had recovered a Glock 19 that was originally sold to me at a crime scene

Why did you buy a gun at a crime scene.


Harrys

 

[TOY539]

Why did you buy a gun at a crime scene.


Harrys

It was a killer deal.

 

[namedpipes]

Why did you buy a gun at a crime scene.


Harrys

It was a steal.

- - - Updated - - -

It was a killer deal.

Damn you, Toy!

 

[knfmn]

Hey, who's gonna turn down a nice pistol for $20???

 

[drgrant]

Anything bought or sold via a FFL is traceable through their bound books.

True, with the caveat that it depends on how it got to the last FFL before you bought it. If the chain of possession is broken somehow, it might not be traceable. 99 out of 100 times it probably is traceable, but there are a lot of occasions where "things get weird. "

-Mike

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Strange things happen. I responded to a trace on a pistol one time and the guy I transferred it to was never contacted. He was not hard to find. This was during the Clinton years when Bill supposedly had ATF trace a half a million guns for whatever reason. This might have been one of them. Jack.

 

[inerlogic]

law doesn't say anything about "borrowing"

i should borrow more guns from my B.I.L. in VT and my cousin in RI....