Hunting and Target Restriction LTC A

[uzi]

grab yourself a chair and a pen and paper, because Im only going to explain this ONCE:

yes, the OP has to talk to his licensing officer to find out what his restriction means. I have said that from the beginning. No disagreement there.

Now, where you need some help is in your example of a New Bedford person being stopped in Newton:

Lets say the OP is told he can CCW to and from the range on his T&H restriction. Lets say he even got that in writing. Now, he rolls a stop sign and gets pulled over in Newton on his way to the range (lets say he his a member at a range in that direction, whatever). The officer asks if he has any weapons, etc. He tells the officer he is carrying a firearm on his right hip. He is asked to produce his LTC, and does so. The cop looks at it, and says "sir, are you aware you have a restricted permit and cannot CCW with this?" at which point the OP either produces the writing defining his restriction or explains what he was told by the licensing officer in his town.

See, the NEwton cop is going based off of what Newton's licensing Officer defines the restriction as, not what New Bedford's defines it as. That individual police officer is not the one with the authority to revoke your permit. If in fact the OP is carrying based on how the restriction is defined per HIS LICENSING OFFICER (New Bedford) and even better has it in writing, then he is acting within the restrictions of his permit, and the Newton PO has no authority to do anything (cite him for carrying outside of restrictions, etc). At most, he gets a ticket for running the stop sign.

The error in your argument is that you made the assumption that it is the officer making the stop who can revoke the permit. Not true! It is his licensing officer who is the one who pulls the permit, yet if he is carrying within his restriction, that will NOT HAPPEN. At worst, it may take time to get the Newton cop to understand the restriction definition from New Bedford, and there may be a delay, but in the end, the OP will win the discussion and keep his LTC.

So, 351 different communities nay have 351 different definitions of T&H, but each one of those definitions does not just apply to within the borders of the town that made the definition. The issue you run into is like the scenario above, and is easily mended if you are calm, professional and have all your ducks in a row. My buddy in Plainville has a T&H but was told he cannot carry concealed at all. New Bedford, sounds like, says you can. Well guess what the end result of that is? NOTHING. Just means that the T&H restrictions sucks a little bit more in Plainville. Doesnt for a second mean that the New bedford guy cant carry to a range in Plainville, it means the Painville guy can't!

So yes, I am being brash and saying "this is how it is," because based upon looking at the laws, discussions here and an explanation from my own town licensing officer, THAT IS HOW IT IS.



To adapt a line from one of my favorite movies (Billy Madison): I award you -2 and may god have mercy on your soul.

No where do I assu-me or said the newton PO CAN REVOKE THE PERMIT

So, T&H or Sporting in New Bedford MAY not mean the same to a police officer in Newton who just stopped a person carrying on a T&H/Sport LTC, and guess which one at the side of the road will win that argument , the Police or the T&H LTC carrier ?,

YOU said

So yes, I am being brash and saying "this is how it is," because based upon looking at the laws, discussions here and an explanation from my own town licensing officer, THAT IS HOW IT IS.

I said

351 different departments, almost the same in difference in interpretation of restrictions

The OP may win the argument "in the end" , but more than likely, "not at the side of the road"

Suggesting any LTC carrier be the test case for each PD, is terrible advice

Why don't you be the test case for all those laws in Mass thats up for debate needing clarification ?


An ounce of prevention
Is worth a ton of cure


You can have the last word, kid.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The error in your argument is that you made the assumption that it is the officer making the stop who can revoke the permit. Not true!

You are absolutely correct. It is also correct to observe that the officer making the stop can file charges for "carrying in violation of a restriction" as this has been a codified offense since 1998.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

No where do I assu-me or said the newton PO CAN REVOKE THE PERMIT

YOU said

I said

The OP may win the argument "in the end" , but more than likely, "not at the side of the road"

Suggesting any LTC carrier be the test case for each PD, is terrible advice

Why don't you be the test case for all those laws in Mass thats up for debate needing clarification ?


An ounce of prevention
Is worth a ton of cure


You can have the last word, kid.

so, when it all boils down, my info is correct, as is made obvious by your clearly intelligible post

sure, I would probably advise not carrying on a restriction at all, but the question was in regards to what the restriction means and what you can and cannot do with it. I merely said what you can do with it AND that each town can and will define them differently so you cant go on "well this guy told me my restriction means this or this". I spoke up because more than one person said he could carry to and from the range on that restriction. I merely pointed out that they are incorrect UNLESS they are from the same town and know how the licensing officer defines the restrictions. That was the crux of the issue, and you somehow tried to tell me Im wrong.

Well, Im not. Good day.

 

[ManBearPig]

There's been lots of discussions over the restrictions issue. Everyone is chiming in with their own interpretations, LEO interpretations, and interpretations from MGLs...except it's one giant gray area and the interpretations are at odds with each other. LEOs may not understand gun laws fully and MGLs are vague (I think on purpose so the authorities can rule however they see fit, but it also leaves loopholes for lawyers). Unless the police chiefs and court judges declare a set of solid rules (never happen), we may never know for sure and everything will be judged on a case by case basis. If you've been involved in such a case, your shared experiences and outcome would greatly help everyone here.

To be safe, unless your LTC-A has no restrictions, don't carry a gun. Even if you have a LTC-A ALP and use your gun in self defense, you can still lose your permit. MA is an antigun state and the jury will probably be against you. Move to another state if you want to carry and protect yourself. To be truly MGL worry free, don't own a gun because all it takes is one little screw-up from a lifetime law abiding citizen.

On the other hand, I'll be damned if my family is killed because I was afraid of the law and didn't have a gun to save my life or those around me. Ultimately, the decision is up to you. Weigh the consequences and decide which one you're willing to live with for the rest of your life.

 

[ddoh1028]

What if I was to bring my firearm to my summer place in western Mass? Is it still considered MY home if it's owned by family members?

 

[Len-2A Training]

What if I was to bring my firearm to my summer place in western Mass? Is it still considered MY home if it's owned by family members?

Maybe I'm missing something here that you aren't telling us. What difference does it make who owns a property?

If you are licensed you can bring the gun anywhere except prohibited places (Fed bldgs., schools).

 

[MisterHappy]

I think that he wants to carry, there, on the family property.

 

[JAD]

Maybe I'm missing something here that you aren't telling us. What difference does it make who owns a property?

If you are licensed you can bring the gun anywhere except prohibited places (Fed bldgs., schools).

I read his post to suggest that he was (is) not licensed and is trying to figure out if his action (possessing/ carrying a firearm on a family owned property where he is summering) would be prohibited by c. 269 s. 10(a) [i.e. would the place where he is summering be considered a place of residence as the term is used]. He may also be wondering if he could claim exemption under the new resident exemption (that could potentially be applicable to .

Personally, I think his question inherently leads to several nasty cans of worms, that would make it almost impossible for anyone not (1) intimately familiar with his specific circumstances, intentions and (2) weapons.

To add on to Len's post, I wouldn't bring any firearm, rifle, shotgun, or ammunition with me (without an NR LTC) in the circumstances that (I believe to be reading from his post).

 

[MisterHappy]

JAD:

See this post that he made, in another thread:

https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/311584-quot-Home-quot-protection

He has a Resident LTC-A Hunting / Target restriction. So, he'd be legal to have his stuff with him - I think that it's what he can do with it, that's being asked.

 

[JAD]

JAD:

See this post that he made, in another thread:

https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/311584-quot-Home-quot-protection

He has a Resident LTC-A Hunting / Target restriction. So, he'd be legal to have his stuff with him - I think that it's what he can do with it, that's being asked.

That other post definitely cleared some things up. Very straightforward. The post in this thread was too cryptic.

 

[whacko]

yes, an LTC-A with no restrictions allows one to carry anywhere (except schools, federal buildings).

I would argue, and am correct, in saying that your advice will land someone in a situation of a revoked license and other potential legal trouble. What your town tells you is only relevant to LTCA people in your town. It is not some "across the board" rule that someone with a T&H restriction can carry to and from the range or hunting. That is dependent on what your licensing officer says, and only applies to permits issued by that town. For example, if New Bedford says it is ok to carry to and from the range, then cool, thats good to hear. However, that does NOT mean that Plainville also allows that. Why? Because there is nothing about definitions of restrictions in the MGLs!! Plainville can decide what their restrictions mean.

So, just because you can do so on your restricted permit, does not mean the OP can do so on his, unless he is from the same town as you!

Please do a search, this has been covered many times.

To review: restrictions vary in meaning from town to town. What you are allowed to do in your town in terms of how your town defined your restriction means NOTHING to someone whose permit was issued by ANY other town in the Commonwealth. It is up to the Chief or licensing officer to decide what it means, not you and your "well, in any town I have heard of..." that is wrong at best and at worst, dangerous for someone to take that advice. Do not give out incorrect advice, thanks.

This X1000

Jesus this shit was covered in depth at my safety course years ago.........were these guys napping or are they taking courses that just suck!

 

[ddoh1028]

Yes. Sorry guys. Still trying to figure this board out. I am licensed. Just not unrestricted.....But from what I've heard, with permission, I can carry on private property

I read his post to suggest that he was (is) not licensed and is trying to figure out if his action (possessing/ carrying a firearm on a family owned property where he is summering) would be prohibited by c. 269 s. 10(a) [i.e. would the place where he is summering be considered a place of residence as the term is used]. He may also be wondering if he could claim exemption under the new resident exemption (that could potentially be applicable to .

Personally, I think his question inherently leads to several nasty cans of worms, that would make it almost impossible for anyone not (1) intimately familiar with his specific circumstances, intentions and (2) weapons.

To add on to Len's post, I wouldn't bring any firearm, rifle, shotgun, or ammunition with me (without an NR LTC) in the circumstances that (I believe to be reading from his post).

 

[ddoh1028]

Ya, sorry about that. It was my first time posting. Left out some details. Didnt mean to look like some irresponsible nitwit running around unlicensed.

That other post definitely cleared some things up. Very straightforward. The post in this thread was too cryptic.