HUGE loop hole in CT AWB. People are buying them now.

dcmdon

NES Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
13,608
Likes
3,436
Location
Central NH and Boston Metro West
Feedback: 33 / 0 / 1
Hi all,

I just thought I'd share an interesting development in the push back against PA 13-3 that essentially outlawed all future ownership of AR15s or any other pistol gripped, semi-auto, detachable magazine centerfire rifles.

Its from the Freedom Shoppe.

This is it:
ctcompliant.jpg

PA 13-3 defines an AW as any semi-auto firearm with a detachable mag that . . .

Then it goes on to apply restriction to rifles, shotguns, and handguns.

This firearm is legal because it is none of the above.

It is not a handgun because CT law defines a handgun as any firearm with a barrel length of less than 12 inches.
Its not a rifle because CT law defines a rifle as any firearm intended to be shot from the shoulder.
Its not a shotgun because is discharges a single projectile.

So its a firearm, but not a pistol, rifle or shotgun.

Link to definitions. Go to paragraph 16 and read from there. https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap_950.htm

There are only restrictions on pistols, rifles, or shotguns in PA13-3.

What this item is though is an Any Other Weapon (AOW) per the ATF. That means it is an NFA item and requires the issuance of a tax stamp. Fortunately an AOW stamp is only $5 plus a 4 month wait.

Beautiful huh?
 
I am sure some lucky guy will enjoy ending up in jail or spending his life savings defending against the onslaught of a criminal case brought by the state. Hope he wins.
 
Only if it were that easy. You may well be 100% correct and I don't doubt that you are. However, I wouldn't want to foot the bill to prove I was right in the first place. I suppose if you went through the hassle of waiting 4mo and aquiring the legitimate stamp, that would alleviate 99.9% of the chances of being harrased.

So glad I left CT
 
I thought these were part of the loophole..
6__67767.1482950453.1000.1000.jpg
 
How long until they change the ban's wording from "rifle" to "firearm?"
 
That's an AR pistol anywhere else in the country so why would the BATFE consider it a AOW? I can't believe they are going to play state by state politics. I would think they have better ways to jam up an individual.

Because the federal laws are all based off the state laws. It's the reason I can build a sub 16" AR in NH and as long as I don't put a stock on it, it's not an SBR, no stamps.


That said, whats happening in CT is second only to the shitshow in CA unfolding.
 
There isn't a "guy"

Its a gun shop in CT and they have been selling them for 10 months. Lots of them.

They advertise it on their facebook page.

They are pretty innovative about getting around CT laws. (They also make a bunch of slip fit and integrally suppressed handguns to get around the threaded bbl problem that PA13-3 created. Since a threaded bbl instantly turns a pistol into an AW per CT law.)

This is 100% legal. If there is any splashback it will have to be legislative.

- - - Updated - - -

$5 to transfer an AOW. If you make one on a Form 1, it's still $200.

07 FFL with Class 2 pays nothing. Then he transfers them for $5

That's an AR pistol anywhere else in the country so why would the BATFE consider it a AOW? I can't believe they are going to play state by state politics. I would think they have better ways to jam up an individual.

Its not an AR pistol per the ATF. I believe its overall length is too long. I don't know that detail. I'll find out why. But it is an AOW. Otherwise the maker would not do it since the stamp, even at only $5 is a pain in the ass.
 
That's an AR pistol anywhere else in the country so why would the BATFE consider it a AOW? I can't believe they are going to play state by state politics. I would think they have better ways to jam up an individual.

because CT doesn't consider it a pistol because the barrel is longer than 12"...and in theory, it's not a rifle because it's not shot from the shoulder
 
Because the federal laws are all based off the state laws. It's the reason I can build a sub 16" AR in NH and as long as I don't put a stock on it, it's not an SBR, no stamps.


That said, whats happening in CT is second only to the shitshow in CA unfolding.

I dont' know what you mean by that, but its wrong. Federal laws and state laws are completely separate. That's why for exammple a Glock lower is a firearm per the feds and not per MA.

With that said, CT is nothing like CA. In fact, its less shitty than MA. You have a (state) constitutional right to own firearms in CT. You do not need ANY permits or licenses to possess any legal firearms in CT. NONE.

You do not need any licenses to use a rifle or shotgun any legal way.
The carry permit process in CT is effectively a SHALL ISSUE process with no restrictions.

Open Carry is legal and accepted by the police.
Silencers are legal
No special license is necessary to possess machine guns.

So, no, CT is not even close to CA.

In fact, its not even close to NY, NJ or MA. So although CT sucks. It is currently a better place to be a gun owner than only 4 other states that I can think of. MA, NY, NJ and CA.

Don

because CT doesn't consider it a pistol because the barrel is longer than 12"...and in theory, it's not a rifle because it's not shot from the shoulder

Not in theory. In fact.

Yeah until their AG reinterprets / creates law and make a bunch of instant, retroactive felons they may or may not prosecute.

There is no history of CT AG doing anything like this ever. If you want to be afraid to exercise your rights CLEARLY within the law, I'd suggest you stick with single action revolvers and bolt action rifles.
 
because CT doesn't consider it a pistol because the barrel is longer than 12"...and in theory, it's not a rifle because it's not shot from the shoulder

It's much the same way that a SBR in MA is technically AWB exempt* because it doesn't meet the definition of a rifle under MGL.

*Maura's illegal legislating aside
 
How long until they change the ban's wording from "rifle" to "firearm?"

If it happens, 4 months minimum.

I am sure some lucky guy will enjoy ending up in jail or spending his life savings defending against the onslaught of a criminal case brought by the state. Hope he wins.

Unlikely, the Freedom Shoppe has sold hundreds of these so far.

It's much the same way that a SBR in MA is technically AWB exempt* because it doesn't meet the definition of a rifle under MGL.

*Maura's illegal legislating aside

Exactly. CT AG has never attempted such antics. Whereas the MA AG has been doing this for decades. (When did they first ban "on list" glocks with consumer safety regulations?)
 
Last edited:
Just did a bit of research. All the photos of smiling customers taking delivery after their stamp came back show the gun with a bolt on vertical foregrip. That definitely makes it an AOW per the feds.

Although I'm not sure why. They cold leave it off and its a pistol per the feds and a firearm per CT. It wouldn't be the first firearm to have two different classifications per fed and state laws.

ct compliant.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

Why not remove the VFG and keep it stamp less?

not sure. I'm trying to figure out that now.
 
... There is no history of CT AG doing anything like this ever. If you want to be afraid to exercise your rights CLEARLY within the law, I'd suggest you stick with single action revolvers and bolt action rifles.

Relax. I was just being snarky.

Of course, nobody ever expected to wake up one morning in Mass to find that they had been a felon for many years, so do with that info what you will.
 
because CT doesn't consider it a pistol because the barrel is longer than 12"...and in theory, it's not a rifle because it's not shot from the shoulder

But no matter what the state considers it the feds have a definition and under that definition wouldn't that be a pistol?

18usc 921 sec 29

(29) The term “handgun” means—
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

ETA: the foregrip would be the only issue, I would guess if they removed it it would simply be a handgun under fed law.
 
But no matter what the state considers it the feds have a definition and under that definition wouldn't that be a pistol?

18usc 921 sec 29

(29) The term “handgun” means—
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

ETA: the foregrip would be the only issue, I would guess if they removed it it would simply be a handgun under fed law.

I agree 100%. Its only an AOW because of the foregrip. I'm not sure why they put it on. Possibly to avoid confusion with it being an AOW on a federal level and a handgun/pistol (I'm not sure what term is used legally) on a federal level.

Relax. I was just being snarky.

Of course, nobody ever expected to wake up one morning in Mass to find that they had been a felon for many years, so do with that info what you will.

Sorry. I'm really really tired of pointng out to someone that a certain activity is legal in MA (for example the fact that an unloaded handgun does not have to be under your direct control or in a locked container. Yes. really, read the law)

Only to have someone say. So what, if you do it, you will be arrested or something like that.
 
Bravo, I say. The more defiance against tyranny the better.

I don't get the posts shitting on this. If they can sell 10's of thousands of these it is better all around. There were a bunch of posts on NES saying MA gun shops should have ignored the AG's directive. We should be encouraging people to run out and buy this.
 
I dont' know what you mean by that, but its wrong. Federal laws and state laws are completely separate. That's why for exammple a Glock lower is a firearm per the feds and not per MA.

With that said, CT is nothing like CA. In fact, its less shitty than MA. You have a (state) constitutional right to own firearms in CT. You do not need ANY permits or licenses to possess any legal firearms in CT. NONE.

You do not need any licenses to use a rifle or shotgun any legal way.
The carry permit process in CT is effectively a SHALL ISSUE process with no restrictions.

Open Carry is legal and accepted by the police.
Silencers are legal
No special license is necessary to possess machine guns.

So, no, CT is not even close to CA.

In fact, its not even close to NY, NJ or MA. So although CT sucks. It is currently a better place to be a gun owner than only 4 other states that I can think of. MA, NY, NJ and CA.

Don



Not in theory. In fact.



There is no history of CT AG doing anything like this ever. If you want to be afraid to exercise your rights CLEARLY within the law, I'd suggest you stick with single action revolvers and bolt action rifles.
This is not a hand gun due to the forward grip, as someone mentioned. Also I would add HI and MD to your list as arguably worse than CT, as MD has limited CC and HI has none.
 
I agree 100%. Its only an AOW because of the foregrip. I'm not sure why they put it on. Possibly to avoid confusion with it being an AOW on a federal level and a handgun/pistol (I'm not sure what term is used legally) on a federal level.



Sorry. I'm really really tired of pointng out to someone that a certain activity is legal in MA (for example the fact that an unloaded handgun does not have to be under your direct control or in a locked container. Yes. really, read the law)

Only to have someone say. So what, if you do it, you will be arrested or something like that.
Could you link me to a cite for that in MGL? I thought options were direct control, trigger lock, or container
 
Could you link me to a cite for that in MGL? I thought options were direct control, trigger lock, or container

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131C

"Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500. "
 
Last edited:
Yeah until their AG reinterprets / creates law and make a bunch of instant, retroactive felons they may or may not prosecute.

CT doesn't have a history of that type of absurd behavior by their AG. Only in MA do they acquiesce to that type of marsupial behavior.
 
Bravo, I say. The more defiance against tyranny the better.

I don't get the posts shitting on this. If they can sell 10's of thousands of these it is better all around. There were a bunch of posts on NES saying MA gun shops should have ignored the AG's directive. We should be encouraging people to run out and buy this.

^^^this...
 
Back
Top Bottom