How to prove when a stripped lower was assembled into a complete rifle?

G30

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This is more of a national question than a Northeast/RI question, but there seem to be many smart minds on here....

As we know with the first AWB of '94, as long as you had a COMPLETE rifle by the cut off date, you were fine. This was/is a problem for everyone who stocked up on stripped lowers like myself. If the burden ever falls upon you to prove the date of manufacture of a complete rifle (purchased as such), you just get a letter from the manufacturer stating when they assembled that particular serial number. When it comes to stripped lowers, there is technically no proof of assembly, only creation of said stripped lower.

I saw some people saying assemble each lower with the same parts kit and upper, and take a picture with it next to a newspaper with both the serial number and newspaper date clearly visible....that doesn't sound like it would fly in court since I could take a newspaper from 1985 and put my brand new AR next to it and say it was assembled 25 years ago.

I'm thinking some kind of document stating the serial number, the fact that it was assembled on the date it was signed, a picture, and get it notarized? Can't really think of any other ideas.

Thanks for any input!
 
hmm, this is a shot in the dark, but if you assembled the rifle and it was capable of discharging a shot, you should have sent FA-10 as a new rifle, same as for all home-made rifles.
 
I'm not sure why this is a national question. The terms pre and post ban are completely meaningless outside your state and a few others.

Not to mention the fact that we don't register guns with anyone so the .gov really has no idea of who has what and when did they get it.

We simply don't give a shit.
 
Why are you posting this in the RI laws subforum? To the best of my knowledge RI doesn't have an AWB. I can move it if you like....

ETA: FWIW, nobody I know of engages in any of the hokey BS you describe in your first post. Nobody. Unless you have a time machine it's all meaningless crap.

-Mike
 
Patron got it.

I'm well aware of the current RI and each of the northeast states laws (lived in CT and MA prior) and I know the only things not allowed in RI are suppressors and SBR/SBS, it's more to know what to do when, and not if, the AWB is reinstated. I guess the reason I posted it here is because eventually everyone is going to want to know how to do what I'm asking.

drgrant I agree it's BS, but that's why I'm looking for a solution.

Jose I know were all not on a "list"...it's more of a problem that people during the AWB and people in the currently banned states face....you get pulled over for whatever reason/house is entered etc and you now have to explain how your "preban" is actually a "preban". As I said above it's only a matter of time considering the political climate and recent re-election so I think we should all know what to do.

Boris- I thought FA-10 was a MA thing only?
 
Yes, FA-10 is a MA thing not a RI thing.

You are *loosely* innocent until proven guilty. What that means is that it is incumbent upon the prosecuting agency to prove that your lower was not a complete rifle. This is all theoretical because no one knows what type of AWB could be instituted (but I do not think any type will be nationally) but in CT, when the AWB went into effect you needed to register the rifle. That made it legal. That was your proof. If you did not register it by the deadline, it could never be registered and is now illegal. Assuming that the AWB does come back to bite us, there will likely be some mechanism in place to keep all the currently owned rifles legal. This has been precedent.

Now, back to proof. Often, even with no proof, prosecutors will go after people for no good reason. Particularly poor people who do not have the resources to adequately defend themselves and are likely to take a plea deal. Prosecutors are a**h***s. They are hacks that could not make it in private law and all they care about are numbers- not justice.

So, stop worrying. Buy some lowers and sit on them. They are cheap enough now ($70-$90) and if something happens in the future, deal with it then. Whatever does happen, you won't just wake up one day to find you are sitting on an illegal hoard. It will come up slowly enough for you to prepare.
 
drgrant I agree it's BS, but that's why I'm looking for a solution.

There isn't one, and I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. If you really want the "legal toilet paper" get a letter from the manufacturer of the rifle stating the date of manufacture and its configuration. (For some manufacturers this is impossible, but if you think about this for more than 10 seconds, that is actually a GOOD thing... ) Frankly, I won't even bother with that. A dog and pony show with a notarized statement isn't going to do much, anyone can do that.

-Mike
 
Thanks Swamp_Yankee. I remember the registration process from when I lived in CT. I guess I didn't think about the fact there would be new "registration" if another AWB happened...I was thinking in the old CT mindset. I have quite a few lowers as it is...went to D&L today to order more and everything is pretty much on crazy back order status now...and D&L is the dealer I go to when I need a hard to get item fast.

Thanks Mike....I came to that conclusion last night while really thinking about it, I guess I was being too cautious (paranoid). I was just worried that over $2k of lower receivers might suddenly be paperweights...but I guess that won't happen. :)
 
I'm thinking some kind of document stating the serial number, the fact that it was assembled on the date it was signed, a picture, and get it notarized? Can't really think of any other ideas.

Thanks for any input!

Yeah,

Seal it up into an envelope (or box), toss a first class stamp on it, and mail it to yourself.
The stamp will get cancelled with the date you mailed it.
All you have to do is remember to file it away sealed, and leave opening it up to the judge.

This is a technique I heard of to document pre-event structure damage (or lack thereof)
should a neighbor decide to do some blasting.

eta:
I'm talking about pictures of the assembled unit here.
 
I would not waste my time with D&L. Use Heritage, they give you free transfers, and buy a bunch from some random online source.

My most recent lower purchase was from here (NES Mods, please note, this was a RI shipment and Marsha can suck my balls):

http://pkfirearms.com/LRB_Arms_Lowers/143/c

The LRB is a little rough, not finished as nicely as my Stag or my Noveske, paricularly under the trigger. And the holes are so goddamn loose I need anti-walk pins. But for $50 more you can buy an RRA or a Noveske. Frankly, for the $10 in antiwalk pins I'm not really complaining. The LRB logo is certainly one of the coolest out there.
 
it's more to know what to do when, and not if, the AWB is reinstated. drgrant I agree it's BS, but that's why I'm looking for a solution.
You have no idea what a new AWB will be like, even if one ever comes.



As I said above it's only a matter of time considering the political climate and recent re-election so I think we should all know what to do.
No, I don't think you have a good feel for the political climate. Representatives and Senators from outside the northeast think VERY differently about these issues and many Dems will not toe the party line knowing full well what will happen to their political careers. See 1994 congressional elections for more information.
 
Does the law require a complete rifle as it left the factory or complete the day the ban took affect? I thought it had to be out of the factory that way.

Dave

That's the interpretation of some people, but not the actual law. (In MA anyway....)
 
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First of all, you don't have to prove anything. If for whatever reason this should become a legal issue, the burden of proof is on whoever is charging you for whatever violation.

Your question is general and it is hard to contemplate worthy circumstantial evidence that someone could use to prosecute you.
 
Whoops...posted something here that belonged in the MEGA AWB 2013 thread...put it there instead.
 
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I would believe a lower serial # and the date on the 4473 would be it's birthday since any lower can go on any upper and the lower is considered the firearm.
 
In CT, when the AWB took effect, all "assault weapons" needed to be registered with the state. That was your proof. However, when the 1994 National AWB went into effect, there was no need to "prove" it was preban in "free" states. Since the national AWB banned the production and importation, anything you owned was assumed to be preban. They were not targeting users. We cannot predict what will happen in the future. I, however, have all my receipts.

4473 are only kept in the dealer's possession. If, by unfortunate chance (or some angry buyer who does not want the government to know what firearms he has, despite state reg § 11-47-41), the dealer's shop and all his records burn up, your 4473 goes away. There is no federal backup.
 
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