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How to match a scope to a rifle

Noreaster

Noreaster

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Trying for something other than a "what glass should i get" thread.

As parts trickle in for a 308 rifle project i have going, i would like to get some glass for it. What are the questions to ask, and how do the answers dictate what specs and features are ideal in a scope.
 
I'll give this a try.

(1) What kind of rifle is it? A Savage 110 and a SCAR 17 can both shoot .308, but the two dictate much different kinds of scopes.

(2) What are you doing with the rifle? This can be very broad or very specialized.

These first two are the most important factors. Before you think of anything else, figure out what kind of gun the scope is going on and what you're going to do with the gun. I'm assuming you're already there.

(3) How much are you willing to spend - put another way, how much does glass mean to you? Do you simply want to see a target better with magnification? Or do you want the very best in optical performance? For most people, the answer is in the middle, but skewed towards either the low or high end.
(3)(a) How accurate is this gun? Less than 1MOA? 1MOA-2MOA? 3MOA+? What are your expectations?
(3)(b) This is more of something to realize - good glass helps the shooter, it doesn't do anything for the gun except make it heavier. A gun won't magically shoot better because it has a scope. The scope just helps you.

(4) What are your priorities in buying the scope? Are you trying to keep weight low? Do you want first focal plane or second focal plane? How do you want the controls laid out? How much does tube diameter mean to you? Do you want reticle illumination? What reticle best suits your cartridge and intended purpose?

(5) Mounts. Mounts are a science unto themselves. A good scope is useless without a good mount.
 
Noreaster said:
Trying for something other than a "what glass should i get" thread.

As parts trickle in for a 308 rifle project i have going, i would like to get some glass for it. What are the questions to ask, and how do the answers dictate what specs and features are ideal in a scope.
Click to expand...
First, whats the rifle going to be used for? Bench fun or real world?
Edit: see post above.
 
Here are a few questions you need to ask yourself, before you expect informed answers from others:
-what will be the purpose of the rifle? (hunting vs plinking vs PRS)
-what will be the max distance you will use the scope for?
-SFP or FFP?
and the most important: your price range.
These things will dictate what features you need vs features that are just nice to have. If you shoot tiny groups at 50 yards with your .22LR, you won’t need FFP or parallax adjustments, and definitely no zero stop. If you need it for hunting, you won’t need a Christmas tree, but you’ll want clear glass and a bigger objective for light gathering. If you want to shoot PRS, you’ll really want things like zero stop, FFP high magnification.
The devil is in the details. What any and every glass in your safe should have is good tracking and clear glass. Everything else is purpose driven.
Edit:C. stockwell gave you almost the exact same answer. I didn’t see it until after posting.
 
Noreaster said:
Trying for something other than a "what glass should i get" thread.

As parts trickle in for a 308 rifle project i have going, i would like to get some glass for it. What are the questions to ask, and how do the answers dictate what specs and features are ideal in a scope.
Click to expand...
The Key is
END USE and your expectations with in the budget ?
Good scopes and good mounts are going to be expensive.
My dad always said
Scope budget- min half of the rifles “value”
Scope Mount and rings half the value of the scope.
My dad had one nice scope old gen1 VX-III 2.5x8 at the time it was more expensive than the rifles it sat on.

figure out what you want from your scope

some of the best scopes I have been behind for clarity, turret feel and repeat adjustments and features
Nightforce, March, Bender , luepold, sightron ,
My most expensive scope to date is a sightron and for my use and budget I like it.
Most of my scopes are old or inexpensive ones on plinkers
 
I'd just add, not only max distance, but min distance as well. Putting a miniature Hubble on your gun won't be fun at 50 yards if that's the shot you need, not want, to take.
 
weekendracer said:
I'd just add, not only max distance, but min distance as well. Putting a miniature Hubble on your gun won't be fun at 50 yards if that's the shot you need, not want, to take.
Click to expand...

Poor glass quality --> people want more magnification to make up for the lack of glass quality --> scope's too big for the rifle --> rifle handles like shit and has minimal practical value. I see it a lot when people sell guns. The guns are often nothing to get excited about either, but I digress.
 
C. Stockwell said:
Poor glass quality --> people want more magnification to make up for the lack of glass quality --> scope's too big for the rifle --> rifle handles like shit and has minimal practical value. I see it a lot when people sell guns. The guns are often nothing to get excited about either, but I digress.
Click to expand...
Easy now. We all have growing pains to go through. My NcStar scope did ok for what it was. I'm not ashamed of the rifle now that I have at least a Vortex on it.
 
Vortex has its place. But, as soon as you get into Razor territor, there are better choices for the money. I own only one Vortex product, and I only got it bc it was (and still is) a tremendous bang for the buck. But even this one ought to be replaced down the road, most likely with an NX8 nightforce 1-8. I admit I’m a fanboi of NF products, and therefor biased. Another option would be a SIG Tango6 FFP.
 
I'd start with listing the basic characteristics of a scope. then narrow down to which are most important either for you or the intended platform. then you can get an idea of what to look for and where. following that comes the questions.

magnification (variable mag?)
field of view
Minute of Angle precision (i.e. how many clicks for 1 MOA)
reticle style (and/or illuminated by power or by ambient light (fiber optics kinda thing))
Size / dimensions (length, width, tube circumference, mount seperation)
price range
peripheral features (like a weaver rail on the scope itself, internal range finder, etc.)
Distance of eye relief
Paralax adjustment
weight
"waterproof"

from this, I think the 1st question to answer, specifically so you don't waste time chasing the others, is what is your price range? the second question would be the purpose for this scope? The 3rd question falls to the actual FOV, Magnification, MOA desires; what capability do you want?

after those basics are defined, you can start looking at products in that price range for that type of scope. the following questions will probably turn to quality or capability of those characteristics. for example: how is tube manufactured, what's it made of? what quality are the lenses, whats glass type, which lens maker? what is the range of reticle movement, are there enough clicks from top to bottom, side to side, to cover the range of trajectory?
 
Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses. There are a couple considerations i didn't think of.

For those that are wondering, its a LR308 pattern, PRS stock, 20" fluted barrel, Aero receivers, wilson combat bolt and barrel. Wont be the lightest rig. Goal is sub MOA, but wont know how far off from that i am for another few weeks. Hoping to build something that excels at doing 200 - 300yrd egg shoots, but will spend the majority of time at 100 - 150 yards due to the local ranges. $800 - $1800 is the range, would favor the value side.
 
mac1911 said:
some of the best scopes I have been behind for clarity, turret feel and repeat adjustments and features
Nightforce, March, Bender , luepold, sightron ,
My most expensive scope to date is a sightron and for my use and budget I like it.
Most of my scopes are old or inexpensive ones on plinkers
Click to expand...
OK, i am familar with March and expected that to be the expensive one. Damn.
 
C. Stockwell said:
(1) What kind of rifle is it? A Savage 110 and a SCAR 17 can both shoot .308, but the two dictate much different kinds of scopes.
Click to expand...
So a savage 110 and a SCAR17 are 2 very different platforms. Why the different scopes? Is it more traditional use case or is it because of the rifle? I get the use case difference, at least i think i do. (the 110, depending on setups, would be a benchrest or hunting platform, the SCAR more tactile and plinking, call me out if i am wrong) If it something other than how they are used, they why would the scope need to be different, beyond the mounts anyway?
 
Noreaster said:
Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses. There are a couple considerations i didn't think of.

For those that are wondering, its a LR308 pattern, PRS stock, 20" fluted barrel, Aero receivers, wilson combat bolt and barrel. Wont be the lightest rig. Goal is sub MOA, but wont know how far off from that i am for another few weeks. Hoping to build something that excels at doing 200 - 300yrd egg shoots, but will spend the majority of time at 100 - 150 yards due to the local ranges. $800 - $1800 is the range, would favor the value side.
Click to expand...

Noreaster said:
OK, i am familar with March and expected that to be the expensive one. Damn.
Click to expand...

March is good, I want to try their FFP 1-10 LPVO.

I would get a Leica, Kahles, or March for a PRS rifle. Leica introduced a scope intended for the sport last year. Before you buy an approximately $2000 scope + 200-500 mount, go to a match and talk to competitors. There's articles from a few years ago that breaks down top PRS shooters' choice of gear from rifles to scopes to mounts. Google is your friend and spend a lot of time reading Sniper's Hide threads.

Finally, I recommend watching videos made by Opticstrade.eu, they're very analytical, objective, and no bull about optics, which is very refreshing in comparison to most American reviewers.

Noreaster said:
So a savage 110 and a SCAR17 are 2 very different platforms. Why the different scopes? Is it more traditional use case or is it because of the rifle? I get the use case difference, at least i think i do. (the 110, depending on setups, would be a benchrest or hunting platform, the SCAR more tactile and plinking, call me out if i am wrong) If it something other than how they are used, they why would the scope need to be different, beyond the mounts anyway?
Click to expand...

*Durability, the SCAR has a scope-breaking reputation
*Accuracy expectations, the 110 was probably the first out-of-the-box 1MOA rifle, whereas the SCAR's probably closer to 2-4MOA in most shooters' hands
*Magnification, a SCAR is either going to have a LPVO or DMR scope, a 110 is more of a bench or hunting rifle where high magnification matters
*Different reticles for hunting versus benchrest versus combat shooting
*Mounting solutions, a 110 is probably going to use rings, a SCAR has one big pic-rail on the top

And those were just two guns I picked off the top of my head that happen to be in 7.62 NATO/.308WIN.
 
Also look at Athlon Optics (FFP) scopes. They have a decent range of offerings depending on your need and budget. I have a few builds that I'll be getting some of their scopes for when it comes up in the budget. There are other things ahead of those at present.
 
One other thing to consider is if you want to use MOA or MRAD. If you’re used to MOA you probably want to stick with it. I’ve found it easier to use MRAD when I’m using the scope itself to range the distance to the target. Also, at longer ranges the fact is that 1 MOA actually equals 1.047 inches at 100 yards, while 0.1 MRAD is just about exactly 1 CM at 100 meters. So with MOA if you want to compensate for a 100 in drop on a long range shot you need to actually adjust 95.5 MOA (or 382 clicks at 1/4 MOA per click), not 100. With MRAD to compensate for a 300 cm drop it would be exactly 30 MRAD (or 300 clicks at 0.1 MRAD per click).

For what it’s worth I’ve had good success with what is now the Trijicon 1-8x28 Credo Riflescope (Illuminated MRAD Segmented Circle Reticle) on both my SCAR 17 and my LR308 build. It can be had for around $1200 plus $130 for the mount. It’s a true 1X LVPO scope so it works quite well at close quarters (almost as well as a red dot) but you can dial it up to 8X when you want to reach out a bit. It’s more or less the “civilian” version of the Trijicon VCOG that the Marines have chosen to replace their ACOGs.
 
Noreaster said:
Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses. There are a couple considerations i didn't think of.

For those that are wondering, its a LR308 pattern, PRS stock, 20" fluted barrel, Aero receivers, wilson combat bolt and barrel. Wont be the lightest rig. Goal is sub MOA, but wont know how far off from that i am for another few weeks. Hoping to build something that excels at doing 200 - 300yrd egg shoots, but will spend the majority of time at 100 - 150 yards due to the local ranges. $800 - $1800 is the range, would favor the value side.
Click to expand...
Are you eligible for a vet/leo discount?
 
Noreaster said:
OK, i am familar with March and expected that to be the expensive one. Damn.
Click to expand...
I got to play with a fixed MagX March scope with a 1/16 moa aiming dot.
Absolutely great for bench shooting and “aiming small”
Like picking which corner of you previous bullet hole to aim for!
I have a AR I built to be used at 600 yards prone amd topped it off with a sightron SIII with the MOA 2 ret. has a aiming dot thats .25 moa , its a bit big but I like it over all. Are there a few things in hindsight I missed, yes ZERO STOP! If I loose track Im chasing.

then I think , what type of targets are we talking
Hits on plates or finding and hitting the X ring?

its just me but I find lots of scopes way over crowded with fancy reticles. A simple cross hair with a few hash marks for hold overs is fine for me.
 
Noreaster said:
Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses. There are a couple considerations i didn't think of.

For those that are wondering, its a LR308 pattern, PRS stock, 20" fluted barrel, Aero receivers, wilson combat bolt and barrel. Wont be the lightest rig. Goal is sub MOA, but wont know how far off from that i am for another few weeks. Hoping to build something that excels at doing 200 - 300yrd egg shoots, but will spend the majority of time at 100 - 150 yards due to the local ranges. $800 - $1800 is the range, would favor the value side.
Click to expand...
For that, I'd take advantage of this sale. I'm running this glass on my 6.5 AR-10. I do believe this was the glass that was used on the Barrett rifles not too long ago. It's a fantastic optic, at a steal of a price. I regret only buying two.
www.midwayusa.com

Leupold Mark 4 Long Range Tactical M1 Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 4.5-14x

The Leupold Mark 4 Long Range Tactical Rifle Scope was designed for military and law enforcement applications with increased elevation adjustment for...
www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com
 
widnerkj said:
For that, I'd take advantage of this sale. I'm running this glass on my 6.5 AR-10. I do believe this was the glass that was used on the Barrett rifles not too long ago. It's a fantastic optic, at a steal of a price. I regret only buying two.
www.midwayusa.com

Leupold Mark 4 Long Range Tactical M1 Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 4.5-14x

The Leupold Mark 4 Long Range Tactical Rifle Scope was designed for military and law enforcement applications with increased elevation adjustment for...
www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com
Click to expand...
I have a 4x mark 4 on my service rifle, decent scope. There are better, but thats a great price. Thanks for sharing.

edit: I was wrong, its a Mark AR. And i know it was not all that much money, it was $300 - $400 in its day.
 
Last edited:

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