How to easily and safely get rid of your firearms for a certain time period

[soloman02]

Just tossing this out there. What if your friend took them to an FFL and had them put on consignment with a crazy high asking price so that no one will buy them. After the storm blows over, he picks them up and compensates the FFL for his help. Obviously he would need to be up front with the FFL

Could work. And the bonus is that if someone actually paid said crazy high price, he would make some money

 

[joeendris]

That is the problem... I would do this for him, but (lol) would have to sleep in the dog house with him.

Sounds like you need a new wife, as well.....

 

[seanc]

Stupid question... But as long as the guy still "owns" them, that is has not transferred title to a 3d party, won't they be considered an asset and the wife is entitled to collect on those assets?

I would go with the opinion that selling them all to a trusted friend for $1 ea eliminates most of the issues.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Stupid question... But as long as the guy still "owns" them, that is has not transferred title to a 3d party, won't they be considered an asset and the wife is entitled to collect on those assets?

I would go with the opinion that selling them all to a trusted friend for $1 ea eliminates most of the issues.

Again, not familiar with RI Family Law, but in MA, once the Divorce papers are served, the spouse is FORBIDDEN by law from disposing of any assets without permission of a judge and he won't buy the $1 price-tag! Before Divorce papers are served on him, this wouldn't be a problem but to do it after could face contempt of court charges and a jail term.

 

[Taka]

Yup, any transfers of the C&Rs have to be put in his BB. Not a problem and easy to explain if BATFE ever audited his records.

IANAL so do your due diligence and do everything by the book.

The purpose of doing is is so that you can prove they aren't in your possession, and thus head off any potential issues that may or may not arise as a result of divorce proceedings. So entering them into someone else's book and out of yours by whatever arrangement you can come up with IS the point. C&R of FFL doesn't matter as long as you can prove that as of a certain date they are no longer yours. Any possible future purchase of new firearms or previously owned firearms is purely "theoretical" and has no bearing on the current predicament and need to make these arrangements.

 

[Taka]

Again, not familiar with RI Family Law, but in MA, once the Divorce papers are served, the spouse is FORBIDDEN by law from disposing of any assets without permission of a judge and he won't buy the $1 price-tag! Before Divorce papers are served on him, this wouldn't be a problem but to do it after could face contempt of court charges and a jail term.

A good point. Depending on where he is in the proceedings he WILL need to check with a lawyer and figure out what the best strategy is.

So plan 2 would be to sell them to a friend for a reasonable market value (under the same agreement as before) or just sell them outright. The proceeds might then be part of assets and she may be entitled to part of the value.

Loosing the money would be a bummer, but you can make more. Having the divorce become hostile and being accused of threatening and having your firearms and license taken away will likely haunt you for a very long time.

 

[EJFudd]

Again, not familiar with RI Family Law, but in MA, once the Divorce papers are served, the spouse is FORBIDDEN by law from disposing of any assets without permission of a judge and he won't buy the $1 price-tag! Before Divorce papers are served on him, this wouldn't be a problem but to do it after could face contempt of court charges and a jail term.

+1 Bingo! Thank you LenS for, as usual, being the number one voice of reason & sanity around here.

A good point. Depending on where he is in the proceedings he WILL need to check with a lawyer and figure out what the best strategy is.

So plan 2 would be to sell them to a friend for a reasonable market value (under the same agreement as before) or just sell them outright. The proceeds might then be part of assets and she may be entitled to part of the value.

Reasonable market value actually paid or not, expect any sale to a "friend", especially a "friend" known to the belligerent, hostile wife, to be questioned extensively by the wife's lawyer and the judge. And that money better show up in the seller's subsequent financial statement(s) or else.

Loosing the money would be a bummer, but you can make more. Having the divorce become hostile and being accused of threatening and having your firearms and license taken away will likely haunt you for life

Fixed it for you.

 

[bullseye]

Kill the wife!

 

[bullseye]

OK, Too harsh, pawn the wife.

 

[Delta L Varmint]

Find a a friend/family member you can trust in the same state. Legally transfer guns to said person via the cheapest/free way possible for one dollar. Store in their capable hands. If state law doesn't require paperwork, write up a receipt. After dust settles, purchase back for $1. No, I am certainly not a lawyer, LOL

 

[TOM1960]

My friend just asked me this, and if it were not for my Wife's loathing of me owning firearms, I would have helped him out....

This person was confronted with several family members asking him to temporarily get rid of his firearms as it would go a long way for his marriage. Anyhow, as he told me (and really did not as it has been apparent for some time), his marriage was pretty much done and over with, and now where the divorce is pending, he is concerned that the family members (and wife) will use this against him. Basically, he needs to get the firearms out of his house ASAP, but still wants to have them for the future.

How safe (and legal) is it to store firearms in a secure storage? Is that considered "off of person" if say per chance, his wife tries to say he was waving a gun around and was reckless (trying to get a restraining order) even though he is no longer in possession of them?


Anyhow, so I guess I am asking every one here who as had this sad experience, for any sound advice at this point.

How firearms does he have? If he only owns a few, I suggest burial out of state on public land in a remote area, near some type of landmark that he will recognize in the future. Home Depot and Lowes carry
PVC pipe, end caps, preservatives, etc. everything that he will need to conduct a proper cache burial (including shovels!). Tell him to go at least three feet below the surface on higher ground and avoid swampy locations or areas that are prone to flooding. He should start his scouting right now, because if his marriage is on the rocks and he is headed for divorce, a 209A RO is definitely in his immediate future. When the cops come to confiscate his guns, they will be safely out of state and underground. If he buries the cache correctly, it can stay there for several years with no harm to the guns. He should bury the ammo and accessories as well.

 

[Metalhead]

I am in RI and have babysat guns before....just sayin'

 

[hunt4riches]

Again, not familiar with RI Family Law, but in MA, once the Divorce papers are served, the spouse is FORBIDDEN by law from disposing of any assets without permission of a judge and he won't buy the $1 price-tag! Before Divorce papers are served on him, this wouldn't be a problem but to do it after could face contempt of court charges and a jail term.

Worst part is they do not need any proof. If a judge orders a firearm collection seized, and the other spouse says stuff is missing, you are screwed if you can't prove stuff is NOT missing. All they have to do is audit the checking credit and checking accounts. If you bought $10k worth of guns and only $8k show up in court, you will be held in contempt INDEFINITELY until the other $2k turns up. If you sold the $2k for cash/no-receipt and blew it all on gambling and hookers, then you will be in jail for a very long time, because the judge will assume it is a lie to cover up that you buried $2k somewhere in the woods.

That scenario is the one and only value of an FA-10. However, if you transferred 10k worth of guns days before being served divorce papers, the judge can still order the property seized if the judge felt you were just trying to get a jump on the divorce proceedings.

One of my former college professors did a few years in jail because he did this with a large part of an antique jewelry collection. His story was "someone must have seen him bury the stuff and then dug it up after he left".

 

[drgrant]

Out of state makes it tough for the court or PD to get their greedy mitts on them.

If it's a DV ro, those are portable and go everywhere, so it's pretty much a waste unless people are good at clamming up in the presence of LEOs.. and most are milquetoasts, so that probably won't work so hot. Of course not having the guns around makes it harder for someone to make an excuse. Frankly if I was "that guy" and he thinks things are that squrrely, he should get the **** out of that house and stay out of there till she's gone. If they're not cohabitating and not communicating "everything goes through the lawyer" it makes it harder for an RO to stick long term and they're less likely to attempt it. Living with her is like being a prisoner in your own home anyways. (been there done that got the t-shirt)

-Mike

 

[TOM1960]

Worst part is they do not need any proof. If a judge orders a firearm collection seized, and the other spouse says stuff is missing, you are screwed if you can't prove stuff is NOT missing. All they have to do is audit the checking credit and checking accounts. If you bought $10k worth of guns and only $8k show up in court, you will be held in contempt INDEFINITELY until the other $2k turns up. If you sold the $2k for cash/no-receipt and blew it all on gambling and hookers, then you will be in jail for a very long time, because the judge will assume it is a lie to cover up that you buried $2k somewhere in the woods.

That scenario is the one and only value of an FA-10. However, if you transferred 10k worth of guns days before being served divorce papers, the judge can still order the property seized if the judge felt you were just trying to get a jump on the divorce proceedings.

One of my former college professors did a few years in jail because he did this with a large part of an antique jewelry collection. His story was "someone must have seen him bury the stuff and then dug it up after he left".

Theoretically, maybe, but not in real life. First of all, I never use credit cards to purchase firearms. Cash is king. Secondly, I purchase my firearms out of state, so there is no FA-10 records to be used against me. Thirdly, the only time you can be charged for illegal possession is if they actually catch you in possession of the firearms while under the RO/court order. You will not be held in contempt if there is no proof that you are in possession of guns. Clam up and lawyer up. Make no statements to the police. Surrender LTC and FID in compliance with the order and wait it out. A properly buried cache of firearms can sit underground for several years without a problem. Just wait for it all to blow over, reapply for your LTC/FID and then retrieve the guns. That is what I did. My rifle and shotgun sat underground in an out of state location for over a year until the RO expired and I was able to renew my FID.

 

[falcon123]

OK, Too harsh, pawn the wife.

Have the wife move in with her lawyer or the judge for a while.

- - - Updated - - -

Find a a friend/family member you can trust in the same state. Legally transfer guns to said person via the cheapest/free way possible for one dollar. Store in their capable hands. If state law doesn't require paperwork, write up a receipt. After dust settles, purchase back for $1. No, I am certainly not a lawyer, LOL

Would that be a US dollar or Canadian?

 

[OLAK]

Years ago, when I had the same problem I brought all my guns to my local FFL and he gave me a receipt for them showing they were in for "cleaning" . I had no access to them, all he did was put them in his safe. When the storm had passed I paid him for "cleaning" and brought them home with me.

 

[Jbarila]

storage isn't the issue its the possession and availability to access them that becomes problematic. Find a good friend or trustworthy dealer and sign em over to them and they would take possesion. Let the storm pass and have them sign em back over.

THIS!

 

[45collector]

Years ago, when I had the same problem I brought all my guns to my local FFL and he gave me a receipt for them showing they were in for "cleaning" . I had no access to them, all he did was put them in his safe. When the storm had passed I paid him for "cleaning" and brought them home with me.

I think I'd rather have the receipt show that I "sold" all the guns to an FFL rather than show they were there for cleaning. The latter implies they are still owned by you, which would mean they'd still have to be surrendered even if they were at an FFL's shop.

 

[DemonChronicles]

he won't buy the $1 price-tag! Before Divorce papers are served on him, this wouldn't be a problem but to do it after could face contempt of court charges and a jail term.

Wouldn't matter, he'd be away from the firearms issue in court and have to deal with the dollar value. That's a far less headache to incur than the firearms themselves during a bitter divorce.

My advice? Sell them to a friend for about face value, but do it BEFORE you or her serve divorce papers.

Once your 90 day period for divorce finalization occurs, get them back from your friend.

Did this with a couple of old muscle cars during my 1st divorce (I know, not firearms, but $$ value was way more).

 

[Terminator03]

I think I'd rather have the receipt show that I "sold" all the guns to an FFL rather than show they were there for cleaning. The latter implies they are still owned by you, which would mean they'd still have to be surrendered even if they were at an FFL's shop.

Not so sure that they would still need to be surrendered as long as they were in the FFL's book, AND you were ordered to surrender your LTC because that would mean that you could have no legal access to them at that point until the RO was lifted and LTC returned. The bigger risk is that you still own the property, which then becomes subject to it's value being halved as joint marital property. For this reason alone, I would either sell everything that's replaceable for cash with no bank transactions/minimal paper trail as possible, then put the ones you can't replace out of state, bury, etc. so that can not be found. Most importantly keep things as amicable as humanly possible. The reality is that no one has this happen "overnight". You always have symptoms and signs that appear months, if not years prior to things actually ending so if you don't take the time to protect your assets then you have no one to blame but yourself. Having guns in a state like MA definitely opens you up for all sorts of hardships though since it is super easy for a woman to get an RO just by virtue of you owning a gun.

 

[EJFudd]

One key point that comes out of the variety of responses here is that the threat level in a Massachusetts contested divorce can run from relatively mild, tame and sane... all the way up to brutally ugly and bitter beyond words, complete with false accusations of physical threats and abuse. Clearly, a lot of us here have gone through it already and come out the other end, most of us still walking and still licensed. What will work (or did work) in one situation may not work in all situations. Let's keep that in mind when giving out advice. I tend to take the most conservative and legally safe approach in such matters, but not all divorces, even relatively ugly ones, will need that extreme kind of "belt and suspenders" approach. The real trick is in knowing exactly how far the unhappy wife and her lawyer are willing to go.

 

[Terminator03]

One key point that comes out of the variety of responses here is that the threat level in a Massachusetts contested divorce can run from relatively mild, tame and sane... all the way up to brutally ugly and bitter beyond words, complete with false accusations of physical threats and abuse. Clearly, a lot of us here have gone through it already and come out the other end, most of us still walking and still licensed. What will work (or did work) in one situation may not work in all situations. Let's keep that in mind when giving out advice. I tend to take the most conservative and legally safe approach in such matters, but not all divorces, even relatively ugly ones, will need that extreme kind of "belt and suspenders" approach. The real trick is in knowing exactly how far the unhappy wife and her lawyer are willing to go.

Generally sound advice, but that last line about knowing how far they will go? Usually by the time you find that out it's already too late to do anything, which is why most made proactive suggestions if he wants to keep his gear.

 

[EJFudd]

Generally sound advice, but that last line about knowing how far they will go? Usually by the time you find that out it's already too late to do anything, which is why most made proactive suggestions if he wants to keep his gear.

Your point is valid. Perhaps a better choice of words would have been "accurately predicting"?

 

[justanotherparatrooper]

GET RID OF THEM BEFORE (without her knowing) there is even a hint the courts are involved, once theyre involved its "community prpoerty and your screwed or worse she gets a RO served on him . Nothing like seeing your wife claim you threatened her with a gun that you can prove you didnt have....jus sayin
Find someone he can trust and sell them with a DATED and notarized bill of sale . Once the dust settles buy them back....best of luck to him.

 

[falcon123]

Wouldn't matter, he'd be away from the firearms issue in court and have to deal with the dollar value. That's a far less headache to incur than the firearms themselves during a bitter divorce.

My advice? Sell them to a friend for about face value, but do it BEFORE you or her serve divorce papers.

Once your 90 day period for divorce finalization occurs, get them back from your friend.

Did this with a couple of old muscle cars during my 1st divorce (I know, not firearms, but $$ value was way more).

So you didn't learn after the first one eh?

 

[swampy]

When I was getting divorced I had my lawyer inventory my guns, lock them in my safes, and he took the keys to all the trigger locks and 2 safes. Then I filed for divorce.

 

[cmacclel]

I just shake my head with some of the reply's here.............and you guys are freaking gun owners.....no wonder why we are all in trouble.

Take all the firearms to your local FFL and transfer them into a friends name..................after the shit storm clears transfer them back. That way **NO FIREARMS** are in his name. And from what it sounds like the divorce although is coming has not started yet.

 

[jdb723]

I just shake my head with some of the reply's here.............and you guys are freaking gun owners.....no wonder why we are all in trouble.

Take all the firearms to your local FFL and transfer them into a friends name..................after the shit storm clears transfer them back. That way **NO FIREARMS** are in his name. And from what it sounds like the divorce although is coming has not started yet.

This.

 

[Terminator03]

I just shake my head with some of the reply's here.............and you guys are freaking gun owners.....no wonder why we are all in trouble.

Take all the firearms to your local FFL and transfer them into a friends name..................after the shit storm clears transfer them back. That way **NO FIREARMS** are in his name. And from what it sounds like the divorce although is coming has not started yet.

What you suggest is a simple way to cover your ass from confiscation, but it doesn't shield you from the financial part of the "community property". Depending on the timing before, or during the filing process, a good attorney will still get half of the current retail value of the goods that you "gave" to your friend. For this reason, and only if it's a real friend/person you trust, I would suggest that there be a bill of sale for a believable amount of money, even if it's $100 per gun to show that they were actually "sold". The whole selling for a dollar thing is way too transparent. Worst case scenario, you may have to add $50 for each gun back into the settlement, but at least you keep your stuff cleanly. If it's ever questioned by the judge, you can always say you needed to sell them quickly to be able to pay your lawyer!