How to add fireproofing to a B-rated inventory safe?

[juha_teuvonnen]

add three layers of type x sheetrock to all surfaces. problem solved.

You mean right on top of the metal, put a ceramic fiber insulation blanket between sheetrock and steel? Do you have any recommendations for non-combustible adhesive?

 

[Woodstone]

I have purchased a b-rated inventory safe. It had a 1/2 in steel door and 1/4 in body. It has no fireproofing of any kind. I would like to add fireproofing on the outside and possibly on the inside as well. For the outside I am considering ceramic fiber insulation board and/or cement board, or possibly a two layers with cement board on top. I am not sure how to go about the door on the outside. For the inside I am considering making a bag with walls made of "panels". Each "panel" would be made of aerogel covered by nomex on both sides. The panels are sewn together using kevlar thread, with the front panel attached either by velcro or by zipper, thus easily removable.

Any suggestions and ideas other than "sell this safe and buy a fire rated safe" would be appreciated.

For the amount of money you are going to spend with board/Kevlar/Nomex and the time you'll spend, I agree with Uzi2...keep it (or sell it) and buy a fire-rated safe.

Keep that safe and buy a fire rated safe.

I've got a fire-rated Champion Safe and other than the fire seal, it's literally just lined with what looks like fabric coated 1/2 to 3/4-inch fire-rated drywall (gypsum).

YMMV.

 

[HKcalnut]

Just my 2 cents.

You also have to think of how the fire is going to put out. If what you’re protecting is firearms our ammunition/bulk reloading supplies two different approaches. If the safe is in the basement all the water is going to end up there and probably damage the firearms since the safe has added materials protecting it from the outside and the safe isn’t designed for waterproofing.

If it’s bulk ammo and reloading supplies, it doesn’t matter how you protect it since you would just really trying to contain it from fueling a mass blaze and water damage isn’t a concern.

Air is a great insulator, so if it’s in a room, fire resistance materials and air gaps however you’d like.

I have 3 secure it agile 52 containers. Not heavy duty, no fire protection just a decent storage locker organizer. I could break into it in 2 minutes with a drill and spot bit or 5 minutes with a sawzall. If someone was coming for my stuff it wouldn’t matter if I bought a 800 lbs safe (which would have been cheaper) if they want to get into it they will. I wish I had the room for one of those safes but oh well.

Honestly at the end of the day my firearms are worth a few bucks but the rest of my house is a lot more. I’ll have bigger problems trying to figure what to do with 4 kids a dog and my wife losing it before I even start to worry about my firearms. Material objects are replaceable some harder than others, if everyone gets out alive and you’re worried about material objects be happy about that.

 

[watchman]

Well you could add a 6 inch or whatever height slab over the existing basement floor for water protection and build a huge room blocked with everything known to man to fire proof it. Heat will still be a huge factor. If your that worried I would buy a fire rated safe and insure everything in it although that would be costly no real right or wrong views. Best bet either pray once a week to the gods and praise them with thank you's so they will look down upon you mere mortals or drink more and forget about it.

 

[MisterHappy]

Put this guy on retainer

 

[Happy feet]

Put it in the bathtub.. when the fire starts turn the water on and get your family out of the house… if the fires large enough to melt what’s in the safe you have bigger worries than what’s in the safe said the guy with nothing of great value to put in a safe

 

[Dench]

You mean right on top of the metal, put a ceramic fiber insulation blanket between sheetrock and steel? Do you have any recommendations for non-combustible adhesive?

This is sorta a weird project that's not going to be realistic, at least in my opinion.

If the house catches on fire the safe will be exposed to both convection and conduction depending on where the fire is in the room. So, as you probably know obviously direct fire impingement will need to be managed. That's reasonably straight forward in all areas except the door. Don't forget the bottom, by the way.

Anyway, I suspect the real problem will be getting it sealed enough to keep hot air, gases and products of combustion out of the safe. Depending on how clean/pristine you want to keep the shit in that safe, this could be quite difficult to impossible to retrofit a safe not made for this into something that's sealed well and essentially fire proof for a reasonable amount of time.

I'm curious... why bother?

 

[Spanz]

You mean right on top of the metal, put a ceramic fiber insulation blanket between sheetrock and steel? Do you have any recommendations for non-combustible adhesive?

type x sheetrock is made from a mineral that contains a lot of molecular water. as the fire tries to burn it, the water is released, and cools down the material--putting the fire out. so yeah, just attach it to the outside of the steel.

i guess you could use a refractory type cement for adhesion. maybe some metal bands to hold it on.

you just want the boards to hold on somewhat, and not fall away, to give you the protection.

 

[Gator9329]

View attachment 372693

So corking the hole would be overkill?

Dad said
" Never miss an opportunity to cork a hole "
So cork away

 

[Randy Lahey]

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

type x sheetrock is made from a mineral that contains a lot of molecular water. as the fire tries to burn it, the water is released, and cools down the material--putting the fire out. so yeah, just attach it to the outside of the steel.

i guess you could use a refractory type cement for adhesion. maybe some metal bands to hold it on.

you just want the boards to hold on somewhat, and not fall away, to give you the protection.

Allegedly type C offers even more resistance at slighly higher cost. Based on my research it's superior for horizontal installations (i.e. Ceilings). For my project it's mostly vertical. Do you know if it still offers more protection?

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

This is sorta a weird project that's not going to be realistic, at least in my opinion.

If the house catches on fire the safe will be exposed to both convection and conduction depending on where the fire is in the room. So, as you probably know obviously direct fire impingement will need to be managed. That's reasonably straight forward in all areas except the door. Don't forget the bottom, by the way.

Anyway, I suspect the real problem will be getting it sealed enough to keep hot air, gases and products of combustion out of the safe. Depending on how clean/pristine you want to keep the shit in that safe, this could be quite difficult to impossible to retrofit a safe not made for this into something that's sealed well and essentially fire proof for a reasonable amount of time.

I'm curious... why bother?

I bother mostly because I can't get a TL-15 rated safe into the room because the doorway is too narrow. Otherwise I would have gone the TL-15 route. Typical RSC rated gun safe offers little protection against burglary, which is my biggest concern. Not that an RSC rated safe offers good protection against house fire. Just look at videos on youtube, where folks open gun safes that were in a house fire. The contents are, in bad shape. My compromise solution is a B-rated safe. I can get it through the door and it offers superior burglary protection as compared to most RSC rated gun safes.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Seems it might have been cheaper to enlarge the door and buy a fire-rated safe.

 

[HKcalnut]

If burglary is your main concern then I would stop there. I get making something better to suit your needs but this is where you bought a car and would have liked a truck.

Anything is possible with time and money, is it really feasible though. Sometimes modifying something to get what you wanted turns into regret once you’ve started and you have waste too much time and money.

I have done that plenty of times myself, while ruining whatever it was in the process to just get either what I should have in the beginning or admitting defeat and repurchasing originally what I’ve settled for and leave it be. It’s a life skill that I’m still a victim to on rare occasions now.

So you should ask yourself before you began would you be happy with the final product.

 

[juha_teuvonnen]

If burglary is your main concern then I would stop there. I get making something better to suit your needs but this is where you bought a car and would have liked a truck.

Anything is possible with time and money, is it really feasible though. Sometimes modifying something to get what you wanted turns into regret once you’ve started and you have waste too much time and money.

I have successfully installed a GM aluminum LS engine and a GM transmission into a Land Rover. My friend is still driving this truck 12 years later. This modification made it infinitely superior to the original product in every respect. I fully understand that my makeshift solution won't be as good as a proper fireproof safe. If it buys enough time for the contents to survive until my town's fire department comes over and puts out the fire, I would be pretty happy. I am not planning to protect my valuables against a wildfire that burns the town to the ground. I am not going for perfect, just for a "good enough/does the job" kind of a deal.

 

[falcon123]

This. Building a good closet shouldn't be too expensive. Make it big enough for a second safe.

I would add a sprinkler head in that closet.

 

[mac1911]

I can't get a fire rated safe into the room that I have for the safe because doorways are too narrow. It was quite difficult to get this safe in, and it is only 28 inches.

Time for a new door.
I had to remove door , hinges on jam side and that 1/2” pice of trim (stop) to get my safe in and it was a press fit.
I would have removed entire door frame if needed.

 

[E.Stoner]

Artisinal cork.

Bespoke asbestos!

 

[powerman]

Drill a hole in the top of the safe and fill it with water. Top off as needed .
Don't over complicate.things

add a little corrosion inhibitor , it will work fine.

The Door will be the issue.

even if you protect the safe what is below the safe, as soon as the floor burns through, the safe disappears to floor or floors below.

the only thing that can be done is to put it in its own fireproof room in the basement on concrete floor, hope the fire department can put out the main fire before it burns through to your safe.

if real issue i would look at residential sprinkler system at near safe also

 

[NHKevin]

I think you are right about velcro. I'll go with metal buttons sewn onto the Nomex with non-combustible Kevlar thread. and loops for them out of the non-combustible Nomex. Lenzip makes flame-resistant zippers, brass teeth on Nomex tape.

The fireproof safe technology was patented in 1860 by Silas Herring. Essentially, it's an outer layer of thick steel, inner layers of plaster and concrete and a thin inner layer of steel. There are still safes made this way by premium manufacturers like Fort Knox and American Security. They cost upwards of 5 grand. If rated by UL, these safes will have at least a TL-15 rating. The cheap gun safes that are abundantly available for a grand or two are technically not even considered safes by UL Laboratories. They are "Residential security containers". They consist of a fairly thin outer layer of steel, sheetrock and carpet inside. They are easy to open with basic hand tools and offer very little fire protection. To add insult to injury, sheetrock facilitates rust even under normal conditionts, it gets even worse when sheetrock is heated.

The safe ratings are, for practical purposes:
RSC - cheap "Residential Security Container" aka "Gun Safe" sold for 1-2 grand.
B-rated - inventory safes. Stores use them to keep expensive merchandise. Cell phone stores keep their inventory in them. Made out of mild steel plate, with no fireproofing. Stores rely on sprinkler systems and fire alarms.
TL-15 - minimum rating for a "real safe". These are often used by Jewelry stores to keep inventory. They can't get their inventory insured unless they keep it in a TL-15 safe.
TL-30 - better version of a "real safe". Often used by banks, government and various businesses.

You forgot RSC-2 which is kind of the sweet spot for most gun owners.
Such as Amsec BF2

The Best, Most Secure Gun Safes | American Security

For superior anti-burglary and fire performance, choose an American Security gun safe. Customize your gun safe's color, interior, hardware and locks.

americansecuritysafes.com

 

[NHKevin]

I bother mostly because I can't get a TL-15 rated safe into the room because the doorway is too narrow. Otherwise I would have gone the TL-15 route. Typical RSC rated gun safe offers little protection against burglary, which is my biggest concern. Not that an RSC rated safe offers good protection against house fire. Just look at videos on youtube, where folks open gun safes that were in a house fire. The contents are, in bad shape. My compromise solution is a B-rated safe. I can get it through the door and it offers superior burglary protection as compared to most RSC rated gun safes.

If you want TL15, get one. They come in all different shapes and sizes.

 

[dhuze]

Read what fire rated safes have, then go buy some 5/8ths drywall and put it in. Personally I'd just buy the fire rated safe.