How the christ does this work?!

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I got a bill for $80K when my daughter was born. They tried billing my wife's old insurance company, rather that current one. I called the hospital and told them I was driving in and bringing the baby back, since I couldn't afford it and wasn't too attached...the lady was mortified. In the end it all got settled.
 
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I got a bill for $80K when my daughter was born. They tried billing my wife's old insurance company, rather that current one. I called the hospital and told them I was driving in and bringing the baby back, since I couldn't afford it and wasn't too attached...the lady was mortified. In the end it all got settled.
[rofl][rofl][rofl][rofl][rofl][rofl]
 
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Dude, you f*cked up. You told them you had insurance. I'm pretty sure the bill would have been a shit load lower had you said, "I ain't got no insurance.". But as others have posted, it is BECAUSE you have insurance that they charge out the ass. They do that to pay for the poor bastards who DON'T have coverage.

Like it or not, you are paying for the homeless dude's emergency room visit. Obamacare has nothing to do with this. The system has been f*ced for years.
As a rule of thumb, charges billed to an insurance company are 1/3 of what would be billed to an uninsured individual.
 

Fixxah

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The kicker of it is my girlfriend, had one less shot, her total? Half mine. Literally. Same visits just one less shot due to her body size, the first series is based on your weight.

This system is so ****ed, I hope the mayans were right.....
Evidently you have a much bigger, hairier ass than she does.
 
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Do you REALLY want your head to spin?

A co-worker posted this on FB a while back:



I could NOT get her to agree that NOTHING is free... "But it's free to ME!" was all I got out of her.
It takes an idiot not to realize that your premiums go up as a result. So not only are you still paying for it, but just in a different manner, but you will pay for it for the rest of your life even when you are not using it. I pay for it because MY premiums go up, and I don't even have a Fragging vagina. Morons...
 

cekim

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The absurdity of that bill is a direct reflection of the actual problem of healthcare costs which so far as gotten ZERO debate time from either party.

Consumer (you) and producer (doctor) are separated by insurance companies and medicare. These two things have very powerful lobbies and rampant, systemic fraud - protected by government from competition, transparency and accountability.

So, they come up with ludicrous numbers that uninsured people cannot pay to ensure that everyone has to go through the "insurance racket." Where medicare fraud doesn't just pay them and we, the tax payer get screwed for $15K to cover $100 of shots.

The insurance cartels are operating, with government protection, as the mafia does:

"Pay us or maybe you fall down one day and stab yourself in the back 29 times." (and have to face collections agencies for $15K for a handfull of shots that cost next to nothing).

NOTHING! Not a single thing either party has proposed or enacted in the past 40 years has done anything but make this problem much, much worse. We do not have a free market in healthcare and the greatest trick the devil (socialism) ever pulled was convincing people it did not exist and that the problem was the free market itself.

The free market would not permit such pricing of trivial things as providers would spring up to charge you $10K instead of $15K, then 5K, then 2K until shortly there was a glut of service providers willing to give you that shot for about what a vet would charge (a few hundred) or less because of higher volume of people vs animals.
 
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So as some of you may remember from my post regarding my bat experience, and subsequent rabies vaccine, can someone please explain this to me.

I went to the ER for the first shots, 5 total, 4 in the tush, 1 in the arm. A total of probably three tablespoons of medicine? Hardly anything. I then had to go to the local urgent care for the three follow up shots. Again, small doses, but doses non the less. I got the remainder of the bill that I am responsible for, but in the first column was the total charged to my insurance...... get ready......a whopping.....

$14,677.80

[shocked][shocked][shocked][shocked][shocked][shocked][shocked][shocked]

For 8 simple shots, and a total of 6 hours of my life.....holy shit...
So could someone tell me how the ****ing christ that works??? I feel like this kind of shit and these kinds of "fees" have forced us into an insurance based society. No wonder you "have" to have insurance, that kind of cost would be crippling!?

I still can't believe that's what they charged.
You're under no obligation to purchase those shots.
 

Zappa

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Dude, you f*cked up. You told them you had insurance. I'm pretty sure the bill would have been a shit load lower had you said, "I ain't got no insurance.". But as others have posted, it is BECAUSE you have insurance that they charge out the ass. They do that to pay for the poor bastards who DON'T have coverage.

Like it or not, you are paying for the homeless dude's emergency room visit. Obamacare has nothing to do with this. The system has been f*ced for years.
Holy crap!
I actually agree with you for once [laugh]
Hospitals get screwed so often they have to pull these insane numbers out of their ass just hoping to actually get paid for something.
It's not just the homeless and uninsured either, don't forget the 30 million illegals sucking off the system too.
You would think hospitals would be loaded if they wrote bills like this all day, but look at all the hospitals that literally go bankrupt because the government says they must provide the services regardless.
 
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Put those costs in a free market and allow the patient to shop around for treatment, it will most likely be around $500. Force people to funnel these costs through insurance and they can charge whatever the hell they feel like.

All of the money that all of those scientists and doctors spent educating themselves, all of the research they did, all of the equipment that they needed, all of the liability insurance that they had to obtain, all of the tests and trials and all of the costs to make those medicines and you are bitching because your insurance company picked up a $14,677.80 so that your family doesn't have to watch you die a slow and horrific death in front of their helpless eyes?

You need a reality check, and an education. Its not the system, its the reality that medicine costs a lot to research, design, and manufacture. 15 grand seems like a relatively good deal, considering what went into it, and the fact that you're not choking to death on your own saliva right now.
Winner for the dumbest post today.
 

ColdDayInHell

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I simply cannot wait for this house of cards to come crashing down.
You sound a lot like me. There are a lot of "blind people in MA and the whole U.S. who will have a rude awakening when this whole clusterfu** crumbles. I know it's been said many times over 100 years but this country will fall, no doubt about it.
 

Another_David

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What is so maddening about the process is that if you asked in advance the cost, they would have NO IDEA as to what it costs.

I call the billing dept after various visits asking what certain odd-ball amount charges are for and the standard answer is "the service you received on [date]." A few times I've had them mail me the "detailed costs", which is just a bunch of cryptic descriptions on a list and no one has any clue as to what it means. When I ask they say, "well what did you have done?" followed by, "well that's what the charge is for then." [rolleyes]

Likewise I was at CVS getting some meds and the bill was like $90 and I ask "why" because my copay is suppose to be much less and the pharmacists replies, "because that's what the computer says".

I've worked a few jobs in my day where you hand the customer a bill and there's no where else you can get away with such explanations for charging someone even a $1. I secretly wish I could be working back at the auto repair shop I used to work at when my Dr. comes to pickup his car and hand him a whooper of a bill with the single item description "auto repair" and then remind him there's no guarantee it will work any better--we just tried to fix it the best we could--but live with it for a few months and see if it improves.
 
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xtry51

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http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/vet/rabiesmanualpdfs/pplerabvac.pdf

$775 per 10mL vial which is 10 doses. That's what the manufacturer charges. Obviously this covers their cost and provides a profit.

That means a full regime is $385 cost direct from Bayer. So where exactly does the rest of the cost come in?

This whole talk about research cost on this particular drug is nonsense. The cost is very low and I'd gladly pay $400 to Bayer for it. The problem is the government prevents me from doing so and mandates I get care from someone who wants to charge $13,000.

The problem is government, plain and simple.
 

DickWanner

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I'm dealing with a 10K hospital bill right now. I went in at 4AM with SEVERE stomach pain and was worried it was my gall bladder. Told them I had no insurance at the front desk. They shoot me up with desomorphine and give me an ultrasound which showed nothing. So what do they do next while I'm still drugged up and don't ask for consent? They give me a cat-scan which I'm now being billed $5,000 for. I was expecting a $1500 bill, guess that was niave of me...
 

cekim

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All of the money that all of those scientists and doctors spent educating themselves, all of the research they did, all of the equipment that they needed, all of the liability insurance that they had to obtain, all of the tests and trials and all of the costs to make those medicines and you are bitching because your insurance company picked up a $14,677.80 so that your family doesn't have to watch you die a slow and horrific death in front of their helpless eyes?

You need a reality check, and an education. Its not the system, its the reality that medicine costs a lot to research, design, and manufacture. 15 grand seems like a relatively good deal, considering what went into it, and the fact that you're not choking to death on your own saliva right now.
BS... The increased cost of technology is a tiny fraction of the problem, if it even is part of the problem at all on a net basis.

Not to mention that technology generally makes the delivery of services more efficient and cost effective over time.

Your argument flies in the face of thousands of years of economics.

You are parroting th BS that the insurance cartel and Medicare lobby are trying to sell.

The problem is that the government protects them from competition and prevents us for paying directly for our care. The insurance system precludes any sane allocation of risk and insurance of this risk in addition to restricting us to a handful of companies able to sell such insurance.

You should be ashamed to re-vomit this bile and fear mongering.

Given the actual cost of the products and services in question, all inclusive, there is no reason we cannot have a system of insuring catastrophic care while paying for everything else out of pocket.

I assure you, this would cost less to the consumer for the same or better service in the long run, because you don't have to for fraud, waste and middlemen as you do now.
 
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Zappa

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I'm dealing with a 10K hospital bill right now. I went in at 4AM with SEVERE stomach pain and was worried it was my gall bladder. Told them I had no insurance at the front desk. They shoot me up with desomorphine and give me an ultrasound which showed nothing. So what do they do next while I'm still drugged up and don't ask for consent? They give me a cat-scan which I'm now being billed $5,000 for. I was expecting a $1500 bill, guess that was niave of me...
You should have told them your name was Pedro Gonzales and you were here illegally. [wink]
 

el duderino

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Just think, if you didn't have insurance they would settle for a fraction of that.

All of the money that all of those scientists and doctors spent educating themselves, all of the research they did, all of the equipment that they needed, all of the liability insurance that they had to obtain, all of the tests and trials and all of the costs to make those medicines and you are bitching because your insurance company picked up a $14,677.80 so that your family doesn't have to watch you die a slow and horrific death in front of their helpless eyes?

You need a reality check, and an education. Its not the system, its the reality that medicine costs a lot to research, design, and manufacture. 15 grand seems like a relatively good deal, considering what went into it, and the fact that you're not choking to death on your own saliva right now.
Why do you think they go through all that? The system forces them to.
 

fencer

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I assure you, this would cost less to the consumer for the same or better service in the long run, because you don't have to for fraud, waste and middlemen as you do now.
Yep, it should cost about as much as staying at a good hotel with room service, that sells good drugs.[grin]
 
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Well, lets hear why you feel that way.
Simple economics. See below for a pretty logical explanation.

BS... The increased cost of technology is a tiny fraction of the problem, if it even is part of the problem at all on a net basis.

Not to mention that technology generally makes the delivery of services more efficient and cost effective over time.

Your argument flies in the face of thousands of years of economics.

You are parroting th BS that the insurance cartel and Medicare lobby are trying to sell.

The problem is that the government protects them from competition and prevents us for paying directly for our care. The insurance system precludes any sane allocation of risk and insurance of this risk in addition to restricting us to a handful of companies able to sell such insurance.

You should be ashamed to re-vomit this bile and fear mongering.

Given the actual cost of the products and services in question, all inclusive, there is no reason we cannot have a system of insuring catastrophic care while paying for everything else out of pocket.

I assure you, this would cost less to the consumer for the same or better service in the long run, because you don't have to for fraud, waste and middlemen as you do now.
 
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Too bad you can't just buy the stuff yourself. I bet the cost of the drug itself is minimal. Bit by a bat? Get the shot, and inject it. Anyone can inject a shot into someone's behind.
 

flintoid

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Well, lets hear why you feel that way.
Please, let me interject my opinion. I hope you don't enjoy it.
here's why you came off like a retard:

1. You came off condescending. Like a real a**h***. Which only adds unbearable pain to the reader of your misinformed cow shit infused post.

2. You made assumptions on what created those costs. Incorrect? Not really- if you were talking about experimental vaccines for a viral strain never seen before on the planet earth. There are large fees to vaccines, but not a for rabies shot- have you seen the standard costs for one? They're so common you can buy generics for them.. and even the expensive vaccines can be quelled by a totally free market.

Yes- there are major costs to medicine. But you have got to be kidding me if you think the R&D behind rabies vaccines isn't already 400x paid for. And that a vaccine isn't given by a nurse practitioner- someone who didn't pay for all of that education you listed like a real smart ass. He may not have seen one doctor in his entire visit- that's how that shit works. But the doctor's fees are there, regardless of that fact, because the hospital has to pay for all of the shit that doesn't get paid for since our government sucks.

Your post is so misinformed I can't help but feel uncomfortable for you. It makes you look dumb as hell. I'm still squirming in my chair due to my embarrassment for you. That's how painful it is. Please. Stop.
 
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Simple economics. See below for a pretty logical explanation.
You make as bold of a statement as you did and you think "Simple economics" is an adequate explanation? [rolleyes] If its that simple, explain it.

Then you cite someone else's post. And, that post might work in this situation if you are willing to take on the risk. But, it is far from a working solution for most situations where someone with an education and some experience on how to perform a procedure, like a doctor, is required. In those cases, and in this case (unless you have the knowledge or are willing to accept the risk that you might eff it up out of ignorance), it simply costs quite a bit of money to pay for the medical staff, facility, instruments, etc., plus profit.

I had back surgery not long ago. I can't fathom how it would be better if I took insurance out of the equation. I don't see how I could afford to pay for that quality of care without it. What do you think that would cost me, if we took insurance out of it and only considered the cost of the equipment, the medical team, hospital stay, drugs, rehab, etc.?
 
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there is no reason we cannot have a system of insuring catastrophic care while paying for everything else out of pocket.
We do have that system. What are you talking about?

You decide what you pay out of pocket. And, if you are suggesting that the government decide for you, or have the government decide where to set the magic bar of what is catastrophic and what is not, then you still have the same problem on your hands. Because then who decides and based on what criteria?

You either have a free market or you don't. But, I don't see how setting some magic bar for certain types of care but not allowing the use of insurance for other types will ever end well or will address any of the problems you are telling me about.
 

cekim

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We do have that system. What are you talking about?
Then you are willfully blind...

No, we don't. We have a system of tax incentives, insurance regulation and fraud that make it difficult to impossible to pay out of pocket for ordinary care and when you do you are punished severely on price.

It is a system that has people using insurance to pay for regular care which makes no more sense than buying insurance to put gas in your car or change the oil.

Employer bundling - which comes from the wage control era, makes it difficult to impossible to get reasonable insurance rates outside your employer and there again, you are bundled into plans which force you to pay for insurance to cover regular medical expenses.

Insurance regulation makes it virtually impossible for newcomers to compete in these markets. It makes it impossible for me to purchase insurance from out-of-state providers. MA now punishes me for purchasing insurance that doesn't meet their standards.

So, if I were to go out and buy a $10M policy for catastrophic care only - paying out only for expenses beyond $10K, I bet both MA and now Obamacare would not accept this as my required insurance.

Even before RomneyCare and ObamaCare, if I did this, I would get screwed on pricing scams offered to the insurance network.

I would get the bill for $1K for an asprin that gets knocked down to $15 when insurance pays, but any attempt to avoid paying $1K privately would get me hounded by collection agencies.

This is called price fixing and collusion in a free market (aka: ANTITRUST and illegal).

You are really smoking something... [sad2] but sadly, it seems half of america is smoking the same non-sense...
 

drgrant

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All of the money that all of those scientists and doctors spent educating themselves, all of the research they did, all of the equipment that they needed, all of the liability insurance that they had to obtain, all of the tests and trials and all of the costs to make those medicines and you are bitching because your insurance company picked up a $14,677.80 so that your family doesn't have to watch you die a slow and horrific death in front of their helpless eyes?

You need a reality check, and an education. Its not the system, its the reality that medicine costs a lot to research, design, and manufacture. 15 grand seems like a relatively good deal, considering what went into it, and the fact that you're not choking to death on your own saliva right now.
No, it's still ****ing mind numbingly stupid. It's the same ****ing vaccine they've been giving bat/rat/vermin bite victims for the past 50 years probably. In terms of medicine I doubt the rabies vaccine series is the equivalent of rocket science.

The providers wouldn't need to charge that much if the system wasn't so ****ed up beyond recognition.

-Mike
 
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