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How The Blockchain Can Streamline Gun Purchases

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Reptile, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. Reptile

    Reptile NES Member

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    GunBroker.com, a twenty-year-old company that sells between $600 and $900 million worth of firearms each year, has a problem. Its customers have only two reliable payment options, and they’re the same two payment options that were available to people who wanted to go see The Beatles play in 1965: cheques and money orders.

    “The reason they are money order or cheque is that, in some respects, the financial industry, for political reasons and consumer liability reasons, has really moved away from providing services to the firearms industry,” said Bitrail founder Cameron Chell, who is also an architect of KodakCoin. “If someone wants to use a marketplace like eBay to legally and lawfully sell a firearm or two a year in accordance with all government regulations, etc., they won’t be allowed. And they are not going to get a merchant account from Visa and Mastercard. The PayPals, Venmos and Stripes of the world don’t serve that industry.” This leaves the industry with cheque or money order as their most reliable means of payment.

    How The Blockchain Can Streamline Gun Purchases » NullTX

    BitRail | Compliant Cryptocurrency Payments

    FreedomCoin | Simple Trusted Transactions

    A new payment like PayPal for guns.

    Could be interesting but not getting onboard just yet.
     
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  2. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    Gunbroker doesn't sell guns. It's a marketplace facilitating transactions between 2 other parties.
     
  3. PaulR

    PaulR NES Member

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    I should know this "blockchain", but I do not. ?
     
  4. 67ray

    67ray NES Member

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    They mean bitcoin
     
  5. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    So, why can't gunbroker create its own Paypal format that serves the gun-buying public?

    I thought the first rule of business was: "Find a need... and fill it."
     
  6. crispnipz

    crispnipz

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    Bitcoin isn't exactly the same as blockchain. Bitcoin is one of many digital currencies. Blockchain is the computer system that makes currencies such as bitcoin work. It is basically a distributed ledger system. Thousands of computers that each synchronize their logs of currency transfers. So you can't "cook the books" by faking transferring yourself a million dollars because none of the other computers in the system would agree that that transfer actually happened.

    Other currencies that use blockchain include Litecoin, Etherium, and Ripple.
     
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  7. Prepper

    Prepper NES Member

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    Because the SJW's and the big tech companies and credit card processors are all in bed together, forming an illegal trust, to prevent that from happening. If you tried to create this service, the credit card processors would immediately refuse to do business with you, or if they initially agreed they would shut you down a short time later. Although, you may manage to find a processor that solely deals with p0rn web sites that would let you do it. But that can be problematic for the buyers since CC's typically have stuff in place these days to see a charge is being attempted with a p0rn-related business and then it blocks the charge and you have to jump through hoops to get it to work.
     
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  8. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    But, but, this is America...?!
     
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  9. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    25 or so years ago, my former BIL was in college. This was before he married my wife's sister.

    Anyhow, this is 1996 or so. Back when digital cameras were new and no one had HD.

    Him and 3 college roommates made a porn site. They grabbed pix from across the nascent web and hired a few girls to do photoshoots besides.

    They got a CC processor and went live. I forget how much business they did in the first week. It was something like $10K. The CC processor shut them down. They call. "WTF???" "You must be a drug dealer. Sorry. We're refunding everyone's money." They couldn't understand that a porn site could make that much in such a short time.

    Had they been a bit older (hard to argue when you're not even 21 and your mailing address is at WPI) I think they could have gotten it fixed faster. 6 months later the whole thing blew up. They missed out. They could have been another Dani's Hard Drive or something. LOL

    The point is that CC's crush things they don't understand. They don't get guns? They won't let you in. They didn't get porn, so they shut them down. Once they figured it out, it was GTG.
     
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  10. richc

    richc NES Member

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    You are spot on. And yet one still hears about cryptocurrency thefts, hacks and embezzlements.

    You also hear about folks who forgot/lost their crypto codes or devices they were stored on, or their storage devices failed.

    Not a perfect solution by any stretch. Every system that represents a store of value will attract unsavory characters...

     
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  11. June4th

    June4th NES Member

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    Blockchain/public ledger system provides instant and irrefutable evidence of payments and it fits naturally into P2P market place, not just guns. It's just a more accurate and efficient escrow system
     
  12. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    How does Blockchain support escrow? Who is the arbiter of the release of funds? Escrow = needs a third party to act as this arbiter.

    -Mike
     
  13. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    "Bring on the Black Market!" I say...
     
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  14. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    I have no problem with checks or MO or cash for GB transactions. I really don't. Anything I'm buying there I don't need yesterday. I'd rather have it go right at the right price than risk more problems.
     
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  15. Prepper

    Prepper NES Member

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    That's one thing I never did get about escrow and blockchain. The blockchain can't possibly know that I received the gun and is in working order, so the funds can be released.
     
  16. ipscdrl

    ipscdrl

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    In the same way that Xerox means photocopier and Kleenex means tissues.
     
  17. Brewer

    Brewer NES Life Member NES Member

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    On top of misplacing your data, my biggest concern with BitCoin and other blockchain methods is having identical records distributed across multiple parties. Any gov't who wants to know your financial activity now has even more places they can obtain the info from. A potential strength for data integrity, maybe even convenience, but a severe weakness in privacy.

    I prefer money tangible, fungible, noncorrosive, inherently valuable as opposed to paper and digital bits, impossible for any gov't to overproduce/inflate, and recognizable as valuable to every society in the past and future.
     
  18. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    If you use some powder, it won't get so many fungibles.
     
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  19. crispnipz

    crispnipz

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    It does not have a built-in escrow system. There are third-party ones though. Ledger is a more accurate term than escrow. In a certain sense you don't need an escrow for everything you traditionally would since the Bitcoin ledger is public and irrefutable. You can prove funds went from X wallet to Y wallet by searching for a particular transaction ID or wallet ID. A wallet doesn't necessarily identify a single person, though. Like an IP address, you can get a new one.

    You are describing both the biggest strength and weakness of crypto. It is not tangible, but it is also not as susceptible to fraud as fiat currency. It is also not as susceptible to inflation (in the way that fiat currency is).

    If you are interested in a cryptocurrency with an emphasis on privacy, look into Monero. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous. Monero is private.
     
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  20. VetteGirlMA

    VetteGirlMA NES Member

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    Blockchain was originally invented for use with Bitcoin, but it's being applied more broadly now. Blockchain itself is a way of encrypting a block of messages. The blockchain itself is unique and had one big advantage of not needing a central authority. In the case of money transfer it does not require a clearinghouse or central transfer.

     
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  21. Glockster30

    Glockster30 NES Member

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    That's racist!
     
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  22. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    You do need escrow because if someone f***s someone else, it "being a matter of public record" doesn't help anyone.... and the kopsch aren't going to come running when you go whining about how you got ripped off by someone for $500 on Shitcoinpal because you sent him $500 in shitcoin and got a box of rocks in the mail. Paypal and existing services suck too in this regard, but at least there is SOMETHING in terms of a fraud buffer, or you can use a credit card for the same purposes.

    -Mike
     
  23. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    I was listening to a podcast. Some prof was on there talking about Black Market. He asks classes to name some black market items. They come up with prostitution, drugs, guns, etc. He says, "you forgot the 2 biggest ones - babysitting and lawn mowing."

    F the man! LOL
     
  24. crispnipz

    crispnipz

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    Correct, and there is plenty of fraud between parties. That is not the problem it was intended to solve. Bitcoin is used by hackers who make ransomware where they force you to send them bitcoin or they will destroy the files on your computer. They know that there is no way the Bitcoin transaction can be reversed.

    If you want to send or receive money with no ability for a central authority to prevent you from doing so (as someone brought up in this thread) or maybe send money to someone in a different country and pay a lot less to do so than a Moneygram or Western Union, cryptocurrency is a great option.
     
  25. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    The original thing in this thread though is buying guns legitimately, but dealing with shitty intermediaries. Right now the intermediaries are bad credit card processors
    etc. Shitcoin etc is not a substitute for those services if there is no fraud protection mechanisms at all. Now, a crypto system where someone acts as an escrow
    agent, etc, could work, for sure. (eg, like even gunbroker) "mr so and so did you get your gun" "yes I did I got it from the FFL have a good day" gunbroker pushes the shitcoin to the seller's wallet, done.

    -Mike
     
  26. PennyPincher

    PennyPincher NES Member

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    no, they mean the technology that underlies bitcoin. Blockchain is NOT bitcoin.
     
  27. soloman02

    soloman02 NES Member

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    Bitcoin was never meant to be a true privacy currency. Bitcoin was meant to destroy the bullshit we get from a fiat currency controlled by the secretive federal reserve, including the current banking system as you know it. All bitcoin transactions are public. Forever (well, as long as there is power and the Internet). That was the genius behind the blockchain and bitcoin. Radical transparency.



    From Reason (Some is quoted below)

    Bitcoin Isn't Anonymous. Is That a Dealbreaker?

     
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  28. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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  29. mav

    mav NES Member

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    That is what smart contracts are for and a perfect fit for crypto like Ethereum. The idea being that the "online contract" is processed on the blockchain where the distributed systems are the "third party".
     
  30. mav

    mav NES Member

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    Bitcoin is asked for because the noobs the hackers go after have limited understanding of or access to other crypto. These days, most dark web/criminal transactions are being done with true privacy coins like Monero, where when combined with TOR, VPN's, hacked zombie computers, etc provide much greater obfuscation of the parties involved. Keep in mind that law enforcement generally identifies criminals via the onboarding/offloading of online finance, not directly through crypto... i.e. a hacked city pays the bitcoin ransom. The FBI then traces the transaction via the online ledger to wallet address and from there any number of wallet addresses, until the perp tries to sell for cash and gain access to the cash. Often there is laundering through various exchanges that don't use KYC financial regulations, but it isn't perfect.

    This is why legit crypto exchanges like Coinbase require KYC and ask for multiple forms of ID. The government would break them in two if they were found to be allowing criminals to onboard/offload ill-gotten crypto gains.
     
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