How The Blockchain Can Streamline Gun Purchases

Reptile

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GunBroker.com, a twenty-year-old company that sells between $600 and $900 million worth of firearms each year, has a problem. Its customers have only two reliable payment options, and they’re the same two payment options that were available to people who wanted to go see The Beatles play in 1965: cheques and money orders.

“The reason they are money order or cheque is that, in some respects, the financial industry, for political reasons and consumer liability reasons, has really moved away from providing services to the firearms industry,” said Bitrail founder Cameron Chell, who is also an architect of KodakCoin. “If someone wants to use a marketplace like eBay to legally and lawfully sell a firearm or two a year in accordance with all government regulations, etc., they won’t be allowed. And they are not going to get a merchant account from Visa and Mastercard. The PayPals, Venmos and Stripes of the world don’t serve that industry.” This leaves the industry with cheque or money order as their most reliable means of payment.

How The Blockchain Can Streamline Gun Purchases » NullTX

BitRail | Compliant Cryptocurrency Payments

FreedomCoin | Simple Trusted Transactions

A new payment like PayPal for guns.

Could be interesting but not getting onboard just yet.
 

Dennis in MA

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Gunbroker doesn't sell guns. It's a marketplace facilitating transactions between 2 other parties.
 

enbloc

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So, why can't gunbroker create its own Paypal format that serves the gun-buying public?

I thought the first rule of business was: "Find a need... and fill it."
 

crispnipz

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They mean bitcoin
Bitcoin isn't exactly the same as blockchain. Bitcoin is one of many digital currencies. Blockchain is the computer system that makes currencies such as bitcoin work. It is basically a distributed ledger system. Thousands of computers that each synchronize their logs of currency transfers. So you can't "cook the books" by faking transferring yourself a million dollars because none of the other computers in the system would agree that that transfer actually happened.

Other currencies that use blockchain include Litecoin, Etherium, and Ripple.
 

Prepper

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So, why can't gunbroker create its own Paypal format that serves the gun-buying public?

I thought the first rule of business was: "Find a need... and fill it."
Because the SJW's and the big tech companies and credit card processors are all in bed together, forming an illegal trust, to prevent that from happening. If you tried to create this service, the credit card processors would immediately refuse to do business with you, or if they initially agreed they would shut you down a short time later. Although, you may manage to find a processor that solely deals with p0rn web sites that would let you do it. But that can be problematic for the buyers since CC's typically have stuff in place these days to see a charge is being attempted with a p0rn-related business and then it blocks the charge and you have to jump through hoops to get it to work.
 

Dennis in MA

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25 or so years ago, my former BIL was in college. This was before he married my wife's sister.

Anyhow, this is 1996 or so. Back when digital cameras were new and no one had HD.

Him and 3 college roommates made a porn site. They grabbed pix from across the nascent web and hired a few girls to do photoshoots besides.

They got a CC processor and went live. I forget how much business they did in the first week. It was something like $10K. The CC processor shut them down. They call. "WTF???" "You must be a drug dealer. Sorry. We're refunding everyone's money." They couldn't understand that a porn site could make that much in such a short time.

Had they been a bit older (hard to argue when you're not even 21 and your mailing address is at WPI) I think they could have gotten it fixed faster. 6 months later the whole thing blew up. They missed out. They could have been another Dani's Hard Drive or something. LOL

The point is that CC's crush things they don't understand. They don't get guns? They won't let you in. They didn't get porn, so they shut them down. Once they figured it out, it was GTG.
 

richc

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You are spot on. And yet one still hears about cryptocurrency thefts, hacks and embezzlements.

You also hear about folks who forgot/lost their crypto codes or devices they were stored on, or their storage devices failed.

Not a perfect solution by any stretch. Every system that represents a store of value will attract unsavory characters...

Bitcoin isn't exactly the same as blockchain. Bitcoin is one of many digital currencies. Blockchain is the computer system that makes currencies such as bitcoin work. It is basically a distributed ledger system. Thousands of computers that each synchronize their logs of currency transfers. So you can't "cook the books" by faking transferring yourself a million dollars because none of the other computers in the system would agree that that transfer actually happened.

Other currencies that use blockchain include Litecoin, Etherium, and Ripple.
 
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Blockchain/public ledger system provides instant and irrefutable evidence of payments and it fits naturally into P2P market place, not just guns. It's just a more accurate and efficient escrow system
 

drgrant

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Blockchain/public ledger system provides instant and irrefutable evidence of payments and it fits naturally into P2P market place, not just guns. It's just a more accurate and efficient escrow system
How does Blockchain support escrow? Who is the arbiter of the release of funds? Escrow = needs a third party to act as this arbiter.

-Mike
 

Dennis in MA

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I have no problem with checks or MO or cash for GB transactions. I really don't. Anything I'm buying there I don't need yesterday. I'd rather have it go right at the right price than risk more problems.
 

Prepper

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How does Blockchain support escrow? Who is the arbiter of the release of funds? Escrow = needs a third party to act as this arbiter.

-Mike
That's one thing I never did get about escrow and blockchain. The blockchain can't possibly know that I received the gun and is in working order, so the funds can be released.
 

Brewer

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Bitcoin isn't exactly the same as blockchain. Bitcoin is one of many digital currencies. Blockchain is the computer system that makes currencies such as bitcoin work. It is basically a distributed ledger system. Thousands of computers that each synchronize their logs of currency transfers. So you can't "cook the books" by faking transferring yourself a million dollars because none of the other computers in the system would agree that that transfer actually happened.

Other currencies that use blockchain include Litecoin, Etherium, and Ripple.
You are spot on. And yet one still hears about cryptocurrency thefts, hacks and embezzlements.

You also hear about folks who forgot/lost their crypto codes or devices they were stored on, or their storage devices failed.

Not a perfect solution by any stretch. Every system that represents a store of value will attract unsavory characters...
On top of misplacing your data, my biggest concern with BitCoin and other blockchain methods is having identical records distributed across multiple parties. Any gov't who wants to know your financial activity now has even more places they can obtain the info from. A potential strength for data integrity, maybe even convenience, but a severe weakness in privacy.

I prefer money tangible, fungible, noncorrosive, inherently valuable as opposed to paper and digital bits, impossible for any gov't to overproduce/inflate, and recognizable as valuable to every society in the past and future.
 

crispnipz

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How does Blockchain support escrow? Who is the arbiter of the release of funds? Escrow = needs a third party to act as this arbiter.

-Mike
It does not have a built-in escrow system. There are third-party ones though. Ledger is a more accurate term than escrow. In a certain sense you don't need an escrow for everything you traditionally would since the Bitcoin ledger is public and irrefutable. You can prove funds went from X wallet to Y wallet by searching for a particular transaction ID or wallet ID. A wallet doesn't necessarily identify a single person, though. Like an IP address, you can get a new one.

On top of misplacing your data, my biggest concern with BitCoin and other blockchain methods is having identical records distributed across multiple parties. Any gov't who wants to know your financial activity now has even more places they can obtain the info from. A potential strength for data integrity, maybe even convenience, but a severe weakness in privacy.

I prefer money tangible, fungible, noncorrosive, inherently valuable as opposed to paper and digital bits, impossible for any gov't to overproduce/inflate, and recognizable as valuable to every society in the past and future.
You are describing both the biggest strength and weakness of crypto. It is not tangible, but it is also not as susceptible to fraud as fiat currency. It is also not as susceptible to inflation (in the way that fiat currency is).

If you are interested in a cryptocurrency with an emphasis on privacy, look into Monero. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous. Monero is private.
 

VetteGirlMA

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I should know this "blockchain", but I do not. ?
Blockchain was originally invented for use with Bitcoin, but it's being applied more broadly now. Blockchain itself is a way of encrypting a block of messages. The blockchain itself is unique and had one big advantage of not needing a central authority. In the case of money transfer it does not require a clearinghouse or central transfer.

 

drgrant

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It does not have a built-in escrow system. There are third-party ones though. Ledger is a more accurate term than escrow. In a certain sense you don't need an escrow for everything you traditionally would since the Bitcoin ledger is public and irrefutable. You can prove funds went from X wallet to Y wallet by searching for a particular transaction ID or wallet ID. A wallet doesn't necessarily identify a single person, though. Like an IP address, you can get a new one.
You do need escrow because if someone f***s someone else, it "being a matter of public record" doesn't help anyone.... and the kopsch aren't going to come running when you go whining about how you got ripped off by someone for $500 on Shitcoinpal because you sent him $500 in shitcoin and got a box of rocks in the mail. Paypal and existing services suck too in this regard, but at least there is SOMETHING in terms of a fraud buffer, or you can use a credit card for the same purposes.

-Mike
 

Dennis in MA

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I was listening to a podcast. Some prof was on there talking about Black Market. He asks classes to name some black market items. They come up with prostitution, drugs, guns, etc. He says, "you forgot the 2 biggest ones - babysitting and lawn mowing."

F the man! LOL
 

crispnipz

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You do need escrow because if someone f***s someone else, it "being a matter of public record" doesn't help anyone.... and the kopsch aren't going to come running when you go whining about how you got ripped off by someone for $500 on Shitcoinpal because you sent him $500 in shitcoin and got a box of rocks in the mail. Paypal and existing services suck too in this regard, but at least there is SOMETHING in terms of a fraud buffer, or you can use a credit card for the same purposes.

-Mike
Correct, and there is plenty of fraud between parties. That is not the problem it was intended to solve. Bitcoin is used by hackers who make ransomware where they force you to send them bitcoin or they will destroy the files on your computer. They know that there is no way the Bitcoin transaction can be reversed.

If you want to send or receive money with no ability for a central authority to prevent you from doing so (as someone brought up in this thread) or maybe send money to someone in a different country and pay a lot less to do so than a Moneygram or Western Union, cryptocurrency is a great option.
 

drgrant

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Correct, and there is plenty of fraud between parties. That is not the problem it was intended to solve. Bitcoin is used by hackers who make ransomware where they force you to send them bitcoin or they will destroy the files on your computer. They know that there is no way the Bitcoin transaction can be reversed.

If you want to send or receive money with no ability for a central authority to prevent you from doing so (as someone brought up in this thread) or maybe send money to someone in a different country and pay a lot less to do so than a Moneygram or Western Union, cryptocurrency is a great option.
The original thing in this thread though is buying guns legitimately, but dealing with shitty intermediaries. Right now the intermediaries are bad credit card processors
etc. Shitcoin etc is not a substitute for those services if there is no fraud protection mechanisms at all. Now, a crypto system where someone acts as an escrow
agent, etc, could work, for sure. (eg, like even gunbroker) "mr so and so did you get your gun" "yes I did I got it from the FFL have a good day" gunbroker pushes the shitcoin to the seller's wallet, done.

-Mike
 

soloman02

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Bitcoin was never meant to be a true privacy currency. Bitcoin was meant to destroy the bullshit we get from a fiat currency controlled by the secretive federal reserve, including the current banking system as you know it. All bitcoin transactions are public. Forever (well, as long as there is power and the Internet). That was the genius behind the blockchain and bitcoin. Radical transparency.


From Reason (Some is quoted below)

Bitcoin Isn't Anonymous. Is That a Dealbreaker?

"Bitcoin is great. It allowed distributed online value transfer for the first time. No longer do people need to rely on a trusted third party—which can be pressured, corrupt, or incompetent—to move money on the internet. Better yet, that money is hard money, and it cannot be opportunistically inflated to the detriment of holders.

But impressive as it is, bitcoin isn't perfect, and it's not magic. It's a technology, and every technology needs to make engineering trade-offs.

One of the trade-offs that bitcoin needed to make was between decentralized consensus and anonymity.

Bitcoin's core innovation was to replace a trusted central payment processor—like a bank or credit card company—with a decentralized network of computers. This was not easy to do. The distributed computers needed some way to verify how much money people had and make a record of each transaction. This is called a consensus mechanism."

"But this breakthrough came with a trade-off. The blockchain ledger that allows for distributed consensus is radically transparent. Transactions made on the bitcoin blockchain are recorded and visible to everyone for all time. There are no do-overs. And it's possible to trace where and how bitcoin users acquire and spend their funds.

It is true that you can create as many wallets—kind of like an email address for sending and receiving bitcoins—as you want. If one address is linked to your identity, you can simply generate a new one and try to keep it anonymous."

"One example is Monero, which does not track transactions on a public blockchain by default like bitcoin does. It uses techniques called "ring signatures," "confidential transactions," and "stealth addresses" to conceal transaction data. Monero is distributed, just like bitcoin, but it validates transactions in a way that does not require radical transparency.

Importantly, there are ways to audit the network and verify that people have the coins they say they have without divulging any specific information about identity or amounts. But Monero auditing is less straightforward than on the bitcoin network, and could present its own downsides. Plus, it's fairly new, and could prove less robust than bitcoin.

There may be ways to enjoy Monero-style privacy techniques without needing to implement them on the underlying bitcoin protocol. This is the promise of a conceptual framework called "sidechains," which is a way to peg and transfer assets among different blockchains. This is an attractive idea, but sidechain deployments are still in the early days.

If Satoshi Nakamoto knew then what we know now, maybe he would have integrated Monero-like features into the bitcoin protocol from the start. (Or maybe not.) But these techniques were only developed after observing and learning from the bitcoin project. We can't redo history.

Bitcoin is not going away, and it has allowed remarkable arrangements that were not possible before. When it was created, it was the closest thing to a fully permissionless digital cash system we had. New privacy developments can make cryptocurrencies like bitcoin even more fungible. It's something that bitcoin users should think carefully about."
 

mav

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How does Blockchain support escrow? Who is the arbiter of the release of funds? Escrow = needs a third party to act as this arbiter.

-Mike
That is what smart contracts are for and a perfect fit for crypto like Ethereum. The idea being that the "online contract" is processed on the blockchain where the distributed systems are the "third party".
 

mav

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Correct, and there is plenty of fraud between parties. That is not the problem it was intended to solve. Bitcoin is used by hackers who make ransomware where they force you to send them bitcoin or they will destroy the files on your computer. They know that there is no way the Bitcoin transaction can be reversed.

If you want to send or receive money with no ability for a central authority to prevent you from doing so (as someone brought up in this thread) or maybe send money to someone in a different country and pay a lot less to do so than a Moneygram or Western Union, cryptocurrency is a great option.
Bitcoin is asked for because the noobs the hackers go after have limited understanding of or access to other crypto. These days, most dark web/criminal transactions are being done with true privacy coins like Monero, where when combined with TOR, VPN's, hacked zombie computers, etc provide much greater obfuscation of the parties involved. Keep in mind that law enforcement generally identifies criminals via the onboarding/offloading of online finance, not directly through crypto... i.e. a hacked city pays the bitcoin ransom. The FBI then traces the transaction via the online ledger to wallet address and from there any number of wallet addresses, until the perp tries to sell for cash and gain access to the cash. Often there is laundering through various exchanges that don't use KYC financial regulations, but it isn't perfect.

This is why legit crypto exchanges like Coinbase require KYC and ask for multiple forms of ID. The government would break them in two if they were found to be allowing criminals to onboard/offload ill-gotten crypto gains.
 
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