How not to suck at USPSA/IDPA

[mannydog]

I shot at a local “club match” this week here in Florida. IDPA-style match but not a sanctioned-match. There were 2 stages, you shoot both stages 3 times. The Club approach is be safe, have fun and try to improve. ROs were great, things were well-organized and safe, and all the shooters were great. Range was real nice, and a beautiful day. So, I have absolutely zero complaints with any of that.

The thing is I could hardly believe how poorly I shot. I’d shot a few USPSA matches many years ago and usually finished in the bottom third in Production so I have no illusions that I’m a great shooter. However, not this bad. My times were decent but accuracy was shit.

Now that I have a little more time on my hands, I’d like to do this more and maybe get back into regular sanctioned matches but I clearly need plenty of practice and do not even know where to begin because I don’t know what I’m doing correctly or incorrectly (grip, sight picture, stance, whatever). I’m sure it’s not the gun or the ammo, it’s me.

So, my question to the brain-trust here is: Do you have any advice, suggestions for training drills, practice techniques, recommended videos to watch, or other wisdom so that I won’t be “that guy”?

Thank you in advance,

Best regards, mannydog

 

[76Too]

Dry fire.

Repeat.

 

[JRT]

I'm sure there are a lot of good tips out there, these come to mind for me. Buy a shot timer and some IDPA targets, stands if you need them at your club. I practiced a lot on the qualifier course, not only does it make you better at the qualifier it teaches many of the basic skills. You can set up a qualifier course at almost any non Fudd club. Focus early on accuracy over speed, in the end they both count but find your spot where you are fast but smooth. Increase your speed as you go and maintain your accuracy.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I had the same problem when I was attending steel match shoots. My problem was I was trying to go fast and I was jerking the trigger which was causing me all kinds of trouble. One day an ole timer came over to me and told me to slow down. It's better to make a slow hit the first time then rushing and having to shoot 2-3 times to get a good hit.

As he put it Slow is Fast and Fast is Slow. The more I thought about it the more it made sense and my times improved once I slowed down and made sure I had a good sight picture and a solid trigger pull for each target.

 

[JRT]

What division and pistol are you using?

 

[mannydog]

What division and pistol are you using?

Production Div. Full sized M&P with Apex trigger and Dawson sights. 124 Grain reloads, plated, that meet power factor (5.3 gr. Power Pistol that I made a few years ago).

I also picked up an M&P Pro, longer slide, that I haven't really shot yet.

 

[JRT]

Production Div. Full sized M&P with Apex trigger and Dawson sights. 124 Grain reloads, plated, that meet power factor (5.3 gr. Power Pistol that I made a few years ago).

I also picked up an M&P Pro, longer slide, that I haven't really shot yet.

I started way back in the 90s, my membership number is 40x. Back then people shot what they carried mostly, for years I shot a HK USP Compact since that was my carry gun. I went to a P226 and the to a Glock 34 when the rules changed. They both had a positive impact on my scores, more on the Glock though. You get the obvious accuracy improvement but my speed probably improved more. I would definitely start training on the long slide. I sometimes miss the old days of the more “defensive” part of the sport, it’s still fun but I only do club level now. I got into PRS a few years ago and there isn’t time to be decent at both.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

(1) Set attainable goals and expectations
(2) Dry fire
(3) Talk to the more experienced competitors for advice
(4) Get live practice in between matches

 

[mannydog]

I started way back in the 90s, my membership number is 40x. Back then people shot what they carried mostly, for years I shot a HK USP Compact since that was my carry gun. I went to a P226 and the to a Glock 34 when the rules changed. They both had a positive impact on my scores, more on the Glock though. You get the obvious accuracy improvement but my speed probably improved more. I would definitely start training on the long slide. I sometimes miss the old days of the more “defensive” part of the sport, it’s still fun but I only do club level now. I got into PRS a few years ago and there isn’t time to be decent at both.

Was your improvement in moving to the Glock due to the long slide of the 34 or do you think or other Glock-related factors (grip angle or some such)?

 

[JRT]

Was your improvement in moving to the Glock due to the long slide of the 34 or do you think or other Glock-related factors (grip angle or some such)?

First probably the long slide and a close second is not having to fire the first round DA. I actually hate the grip angle on Glocks, I have to retrain myself every time I use one lol.

 

[JRT]

If you choose IDPA over USPSA remember this, as soon as you’re comfortable with a rule change and you’re having fun again, the f***ing Wilson’s will change the rules.

 

[wmassregulators]

how not to suck at action shooting.
step 1 show up, do the thing until you aren't terrible at it.
step 2 by the time you aren't terrible, you will have a feel for what you are lacking ( speed, accuracy, footwork.... ect)
step 3 practice, practice the things you are bad at, be clear to yourself what you are going to practice, if it is speed, take all other factors out of the equation and throw the notion of accuracy away for the session. if it is accuracy, it takes the time it takes to get an acceptable sight picture, and to call your shots.
end your practice sessions combining the two.
if you are going to try to work both at the same time, noticeable increases will be way fewer and further between.
step 3.5 dry fire dry fire dry fire! get yourself a shot timer and a notebook, and break everything down
draw, draw from surrender, reloads, shot to shot being honest with yourself about seeing the sights.
record your par times and keep working at dropping them numbers. tenths equal seconds.
step 4 don't gear hop! in the beginning, as long as your gear works, it is not what is holding you back. there are plenty of people who have $5k 2011s because they just NEEDED it to be a better shooter, when that 5k would have been way better spent learning to shoot the plastic fantastic they had in their safe, unless you include training, you cannot really buy your way to being a better shooter.

 

[mannydog]

First probably the long slide and a close second is not having to fire the first round DA. I actually hate the grip angle on Glocks, I have to retrain myself every time I use one lol.

I was the only one shooting an M&P (that I saw). Everybody else in production was shooting Glocks, CZs, and Sigs. My nightstand gun is a G-17 with a Trijicon red dot but I really never liked the way it felt in my hand vs. M&P. I thought about trying that out but the reality is, it's not the gun that's the main issue. Moving to the Pro model should be pretty straight-forward I'd imagine, different rear sight (stock black notched), but same feel.

 

[mannydog]

how not to suck at action shooting.
step 1 show up, do the thing until you aren't terrible at it.
step 2 by the time you aren't terrible, you will have a feel for what you are lacking ( speed, accuracy, footwork.... ect)
step 3 practice, practice the things you are bad at, be clear to yourself what you are going to practice, if it is speed, take all other factors out of the equation and throw the notion of accuracy away for the session. if it is accuracy, it takes the time it takes to get an acceptable sight picture, and to call your shots.
end your practice sessions combining the two.
if you are going to try to work both at the same time, noticeable increases will be way fewer and further between.
step 3.5 dry fire dry fire dry fire! get yourself a shot timer and a notebook, and break everything down
draw, draw from surrender, reloads, shot to shot being honest with yourself about seeing the sights.
record your par times and keep working at dropping them numbers. tenths equal seconds.
step 4 don't gear hop! in the beginning, as long as your gear works, it is not what is holding you back. there are plenty of people who have $5k 2011s because they just NEEDED it to be a better shooter, when that 5k would have been way better spent learning to shoot the plastic fantastic they had in their safe, unless you include training, you cannot really buy your way to being a better shooter.

Outstanding advice. Never did much dry fire. Thanks.

 

[SJan]

I don't think anyone has said yet to seek professional help.

Dry fire practice is great, as is live fire, but if you are practicing wrong, you could get worse. I'm not saying you have to attend a $1000 weekend class. Ask around your area if any of those really good shooters offer coaching sessions. It would be very beneficial for you to spend an afternoon with someone who can point out your flaws and lay out a path of exercises you can do in dry fire and live fire.

 

[Fezzik68]

Pick up a Ruger Mark III/IV or S&W Victory (cheap but accurate .22LR)
Join a Club with a Precision Pistol (Bullseye) League.
Learn the fundamentals while having fun.
* Get free coaching from people that shoot well.

IDPA/ISPCA accuracy improves...
rinse, repeat.

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

Oldest and Most Popular Internet Resource of Bullseye Pistol Shooting.

www.bullseyepistol.com

 

[Dan S]

I don't think anyone has said yet to seek professional help.

Dry fire practice is great, as is live fire, but if you are practicing wrong, you could get worse. I'm not saying you have to attend a $1000 weekend class. Ask around your area if any of those really good shooters offer coaching sessions. It would be very beneficial for you to spend an afternoon with someone who can point out your flaws and lay out a path of exercises you can do in dry fire and live fire.

Solid advice from a very good shooter! On top of that, if you can squad with better shooters at matches, do so, and be observant. Sometimes the better shooters will offer advice, sometimes not, sometimes the advice is misinformation
For videos, take a look at those here Videos – TPC
Watching match videos are pretty much entertainment, unless you are good enough to pick things up.

 

[SJan]

Pick up a Ruger Mark III/IV or S&W Victory (cheap but accurate .22LR)
Join a Club with a Precision Pistol (Bullseye) League.
Learn the fundamentals while having fun.
* Get free coaching from people that shoot well.

IDPA/ISPCA accuracy improves...
rinse, repeat.

Nope
Competitive Bullseye shooting is way too different than competitive practical shooting games. I can not think of one skill that will directly cross over between the two.

Stance. Grip. Trigger manipulation. Sight use. None of these skills transfer from one game to the other!

bullseye has exactly zero transitions from target to target, and even less movement... I can go on and on

 

[slap shot]

Buy a $2500 gun and hire the most expensive teacher you can find.

 

[mannydog]

I don't think anyone has said yet to seek professional help.

Dry fire practice is great, as is live fire, but if you are practicing wrong, you could get worse. I'm not saying you have to attend a $1000 weekend class. Ask around your area if any of those really good shooters offer coaching sessions. It would be very beneficial for you to spend an afternoon with someone who can point out your flaws and lay out a path of exercises you can do in dry fire and live fire.

Yes. I'm still getting to know people down here, but I was thinking the same I just joined another range in Leesburg, FL (Ares Training Facility).

Thanks.

 

[DW357]

Nope
Competitive Bullseye shooting is way too different than competitive practical shooting games. I can not think of one skill that will directly cross over between the two.

Stance. Grip. Trigger manipulation. Sight use. None of these skills transfer from one game to the other!

bullseye has exactly zero transitions from target to target, and even less movement... I can go on and on

This x1000

 

[DW357]

Pick up a Ruger Mark III/IV or S&W Victory (cheap but accurate .22LR)
Join a Club with a Precision Pistol (Bullseye) League.
Learn the fundamentals while having fun.
* Get free coaching from people that shoot well.

IDPA/ISPCA accuracy improves...
rinse, repeat.

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

Oldest and Most Popular Internet Resource of Bullseye Pistol Shooting.

www.bullseyepistol.com

I take it you haven’t shot USPSA/IDPA before?

 

[allen-1]

Pick up a Ruger Mark III/IV or S&W Victory (cheap but accurate .22LR)
Join a Club with a Precision Pistol (Bullseye) League.
Learn the fundamentals while having fun.
* Get free coaching from people that shoot well.

IDPA/ISPCA accuracy improves...
rinse, repeat.

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

Oldest and Most Popular Internet Resource of Bullseye Pistol Shooting.

www.bullseyepistol.com

DO NOT DO THIS.

Bullseye shooting is a VERY different sport than action pistol, (IDPA/USPSA/SC), and requires a totally different approach. They're both challenging, please understand that I'm not denigrating bullseye shooting, (some of my best friends shoot bullseye leagues).

@SJan has provided some very good advice.

Some unorganized thoughts:

Stick with the gear you've got until/unless it becomes the limitation. I run the same gear in IDPA/USPSA/SC, it's legal in all three and thus I'm not mentally adapting to different equipment. It's not the equipment that's holding me back, it's the time it takes me to get my gun to the next shooting position, and the time it takes me to do my reloads.

Matches aren't practice sessions. Matches are matches. What you bring to the match is how you're going to do that day. Practice is practice.

Have a friend video you shooting a couple of stages. Look at the videos, see where you're spending your time. Analyze what you're doing right, what you're doing wrong. If you can't figure it out - get some help from someone who's better than you. That could include professionals, depending upon what level you're at and who's available.

Last match I shot, I was squadded with a couple of friends. One's an Expert in IDPA, the other's an A class USPSA shooter. We finished our stage and were waiting on the next squad. I ran John through the stage again, (for a non-qualifying score), with Adam watching closely. We tore his actions apart, trying to figure out how he could cut a second off of the stage. Ran him through it again, and he dropped 1.3 seconds.

Dryfire.

Make the basic actions instinctual. BUT - get help first to make sure that you're building in the RIGHT instincts. Reinforcing bad habits isn't going to help.

Real data. I dryfire with a timer. It gives me data not impressions.

 

[dgrafton]

Pick up a Ruger Mark III/IV or S&W Victory (cheap but accurate .22LR)
Join a Club with a Precision Pistol (Bullseye) League.
Learn the fundamentals while having fun.
* Get free coaching from people that shoot well.

IDPA/ISPCA accuracy improves...
rinse, repeat.

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

Oldest and Most Popular Internet Resource of Bullseye Pistol Shooting.

www.bullseyepistol.com

Everyone tells me you can’t mix bullseye and action shooting.
Bullshit!
Combining the two absolutely made me better at both!

 

[Fezzik68]

I take it you haven’t shot USPSA/IDPA before?

Several times. Precision Pistol is more of a challenge.

 

[fencer]

Production Div. Full sized M&P with Apex trigger and Dawson sights. 124 Grain reloads, plated, that meet power factor (5.3 gr. Power Pistol that I made a few years ago).

I also picked up an M&P Pro, longer slide, that I haven't really shot yet.

Sell both M&P's, buy a CZ Shadow 2. I know just owning it will not make you a better shooter, but it would eliminate the possibility that the gun is causing issues and increase your confidence. Then spend some time with a good instructor.
If possible, have someone record your shooting with an iPhone so you can analyze your performance.

 

[Fezzik68]

Nope
Competitive Bullseye shooting is way too different than competitive practical shooting games. I can not think of one skill that will directly cross over between the two.

Stance. Grip. Trigger manipulation. Sight use. None of these skills transfer from one game to the other!

bullseye has exactly zero transitions from target to target, and even less movement... I can go on and on

I didn't realize I was supposed to use different sights and trigger squeeze.
Grip with two hands...
Clearly I kicked a hornets nest here.

 

[greencobra]

(4) Get live practice in between matches

step 3 practice

but if you are practicing wrong, you could get worse

what more to be said? you ain't gonna get good sitting at a keyboard asking how to get better. i'm thinking only a dim wit would buy a new gun and different ammo and belts etc. and think they were finding the answer to their questions. if you can't do the time on the practice range don't expect to get better much less get competitive. very few people who are good at something don't have to practice. when i was a competitive shooter we'd love to see these people show up and pay the fees. it was always money in our pockets after a win.

 

[allen-1]

I didn't realize I was supposed to use different sights and trigger squeeze.
Grip with two hands...
Clearly I kicked a hornets nest here.

well, yeah....

I suck at bullseye, tried it with .22 and .45. It's one handed, slowfire, PRECISION shooting. My friends who are good at it tell that they squeeze the triggers between breaths, on the natural rest directly after the exhale. Which makes sense to me, 'cause that's what I do with a rifle.

But - IDPA/USPSA/SC is all about SPEED and "GOOD ENOUGH". I don't need to hit the 10 ring, I need to hit an 8 inch target at 10 to 40 feet twice as fast as I can and get onto the next target. Head shots, going for the zero, (alpha), take a smidge more time, but it's still a, (comparatively speaking), large target, and if I'm willing to take the Charlie/down-1, it's still a fast hit.

It's all about getting to the target, hitting it, shooting around the non-threats, and doing it FAST.

Let's not even talk about Smoke and Hope in Steel Challenge as a good place to utilize bullseye shooting techniques...

 

[Fezzik68]

well, yeah....

I suck at bullseye, tried it with .22 and .45. It's one handed, slowfire, PRECISION shooting. My friends who are good at it tell that they squeeze the triggers between breaths, on the natural rest directly after the exhale. Which makes sense to me, 'cause that's what I do with a rifle.

But - IDPA/USPSA/SC is all about SPEED and "GOOD ENOUGH". I don't need to hit the 10 ring, I need to hit an 8 inch target at 10 to 40 feet twice as fast as I can and get onto the next target. Head shots, going for the zero, (alpha), take a smidge more time, but it's still a, (comparatively speaking), large target, and if I'm willing to take the Charlie/down-1, it's still a fast hit.

It's all about getting to the target, hitting it, shooting around the non-threats, and doing it FAST.

Let's not even talk about Smoke and Hope in Steel Challenge as a good place to utilize bullseye shooting techniques...

I sucked at first, too. I suck a lot less now. Bullseye is not everyone's cup of tea.
BUT, now I understand what a good grip is.
I have a very clear understanding of my trigger pull, and I no longer slap the trigger - there are other issues I'm trying to correct.
Work on sight picture / alignment constantly.

I enjoy IDPA/ISPCA, and agree it's fast and good enough.
It's become MORE enjoyable now that I've worked on the fundamentals through Precision.
Using none of the skills I've acquired...;-)