How much do you need for retirement

rep308

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This right here. We went with the 4% rule times two. Times two because the world is changing and I think investment returns will be much less for the rest of our lives. Times two because you need to plan for recessions and other surpises. I'm still not confident it will work because of our government. They suck.

The people who will say they make 20% a year returns are full of crap. Yup, you can make 20% but the same portfolio will lose 40% based on its risk profile.

Also look at your current spending habits. 98% of retirees are hard pressed to get below 80% of their current expenditures. That's a fact. The people who tell you they can live on $20k are also full of crap. I think the base minimum is around $60k pretax. Not sure that is doable though in New England.

I also believe with the post above that you need $2mill in income earning assets. Much less if you have a pension. A pension's value is about 2 to 2.5mil in assets.

Again, you're government is the problem. My numbers would be half what I quoted if I could trust those ass%$%% to do the right thing.
80% of what? If you make $100K a year and sack away 20% for retirement, what is the base on which you calculate 80% at retirement? $100K or $80K?

I would agree that a pension's cash flow is about $2m-$2.5m in assets, but the assets are worth more because your heirs get the leftover when you die, the pension terminates when you (or in some cases, you and your partner) die. $2.5m in assets can probably fund a perpetual pension, not one that dies with you.
 

Dennis in MA

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There is no easy answer. For some, they can live on 5x their income in retirement assets. Others couldn't do it it on 15x assets. All depends on your particulars.

It's like asking what your chances of having a heart attack if you're 55 years old and weigh 180. There is just too little data.
 

Dennis in MA

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Get a financial advisor when you start working. Many people wait until they're about to retire, which is like hiring a travel agent on your way home from vacation.

No self respecting quality financial advisor will work with you at 22 unless you are a child or grandchild of a very good client. You're on your own, whether you are doing it yourself or using lesser-quality "advisors" until at least 40 or so. There is no money in advising someone at 22 or 25 or 32.
 

Dennis in MA

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And apologies to the peanut gallery in general, but asking this question here is like asking the heart attack question here. Wow. Just wow. Blissful ignorance is the phrase that comes to mind. LOL
 

PeterC

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Well, as others have said you need to know how much *you* spend today and what you plan on spending later - and then work on a plan (the 4% rule, or whatever) that fits in your personal risk profile to make that happen.
I can comfortably say that I do *not* expect my spending to decrease much post-retirement. It may actually increase! lol
I may move to a town where the property taxes are lower and that will certainly help but living life ain't cheap. Haha
 
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No self respecting quality financial advisor will work with you at 22 unless you are a child or grandchild of a very good client. You're on your own, whether you are doing it yourself or using lesser-quality "advisors" until at least 40 or so. There is no money in advising someone at 22 or 25 or 32.
This is very accurate. No real financial advisors want to work with clients with net worth below seven figures. And if they do they are just insurance peddlers. It’s really not that hard to manage a 401k, IRA, etc. Advisors are only worth it when you achieve high net worths and are trying to hide money from Uncle Sam or have some complicated income streams. Stay away from whole life insurance scams too (like NY life).
 
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The real barrier to retirement is always medical.

Insurance is stupid expensive if you have money and don’t have a job and are not 66(?). Lots of folks here supporting their adult children as well. Everyone is either waiting for their kids to get kicked off the insurance or Medicare to kick in. I was kicked out after college (22) and never came back for anything other than thanksgiving dinner.

The other side is how healthy you and spouse will be once you do retire. Are you sitting on a recliner watching ER re-runs? Or are you traveling Europe and the Caribbean? Likely somewhere in between at least for the first decade and then you slow down in the 70’s. I know some 60 year olds that can’t wipe their own ass and I also know an 80 year old that could out lift and out run half the folks on this board!
 

richc

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This is true.. I'm not nearly that educated but 34 team leader for it at a major corporation and my boss says 2-3 years regional role if i don't screw up

You got to want it

A good friend of mine has more degrees than I can count, all from MIT. Including a Phd from MIT Sloan. Brilliant guy.

His advice to anyone that will listen about being successful at a job.

1. Show up.
2. Shut up.
3. Do 10% more than everyone else.

He said one can be wildly successful using that simple formula. And I think he's right.
 
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80% of what? If you make $100K a year and sack away 20% for retirement, what is the base on which you calculate 80% at retirement? $100K or $80K?
What he's saying is people say you should plan to live on 80% of your current take-home pay.

So if your gross is $100K now, your actual income is ~72K after taxes, leaving something south of 60K after your retirement contribution. So 80% of that.

His advice to anyone that will listen about being successful at a job.
  1. Show up.
  2. Shut up.
  3. Do 10% more than everyone else.
He said one can be wildly successful using that simple formula. And I think he's right.
Doesn't matter how good you are at your "job", when you're working for somebody else, you can still be laid off.
I hit all those notes at my prior (Fortune 500) job, then a management reorg and downsizing put me on the layoff list. #2 actually did more harm than good, as new (post-reorg) middle management only noticed staffers who went out of their way to crow about every little accomplishment...

That said, the layoffs did wonders for my retirement planning, as the company made a lump-sum IRA contribution in lieu of severance pay,.
 
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Asaltweapon

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This is very accurate. No real financial advisors want to work with clients with net worth below seven figures. And if they do they are just insurance peddlers. It’s really not that hard to manage a 401k, IRA, etc. Advisors are only worth it when you achieve high net worths and are trying to hide money from Uncle Sam or have some complicated income streams. Stay away from whole life insurance scams too (like NY life).
Re: whole life.

What a freaking waste of money that turned into. I just let mine lapse as I’m not paying those kind of rates that will jump next year then keep jumping like Mexican beans.
Told the wife if you want the money from insurance when I’m dead (if I go first) then YOU pay the premiums.

Funny part is they are willing to reinstate me if I pay before 12-1. Payment was due late Oct.
 
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A good friend of mine has more degrees than I can count, all from MIT. Including a Phd from MIT Sloan. Brilliant guy.

His advice to anyone that will listen about being successful at a job.

1. Show up.
2. Shut up.
3. Do 10% more than everyone else.

He said one can be wildly successful using that simple formula. And I think he's right.
Polite, punctual, professional, persistent.

And think outside of the box
 
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Then don’t forget to protect your assets in a trust so the politicians can’t rape your family when you croak. And there are permanent and revocable trusts. It’s all very interesting. And you better have your shit together or your family will lose more than they need too.
A trust can make real estate transfer as simple as your heir having the attorney update the trust to make them the primary trustee after you croak, and does not require any probate filing or conveyance of title of the property. Most people without a mortgage should consider putting their real estate holding in trust. And if you have rental property (yeah, I know - probably a bad idea in MA) there are good reasons to have each property in a separate trust.

Irrevocable comes into play if you goal is a Medicaid hide.
 
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This is very accurate. No real financial advisors want to work with clients with net worth below seven figures. And if they do they are just insurance peddlers. It’s really not that hard to manage a 401k, IRA, etc. Advisors are only worth it when you achieve high net worths and are trying to hide money from Uncle Sam or have some complicated income streams. Stay away from whole life insurance scams too (like NY life).
This is because of the borderline scam of charging customers based on a percent of their assets, not for the amount of time spent assisting the client.
 

EJFudd

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declare yourself bankrupt, get rid of all assets, get a public housing sponsored apartment - and then you may need nothing at all.
there are only 2 modes left to prosper in this country - you can either be broke with nothing at all, or be a multi-millionaire.

all in between will be screwed no matter what.
Truth. It really has come to that, more or less. Two different retirement lifestyles, but both work. In the middle, not so much anymore. So take your pick and have a nice retirement. ;)
 

Quite_Exasperated

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I'm 34, my house is long since been paid for, I haven't had a single penny of debt since I was about 25 or 26. I plan on retiring early, maybe around 50-52yrs old. I will teach my kids to stand on their own feet and make them understand that they need to make it their life's single goal to gtfo of my house and survive on their own once they are 18, I will not pay for their college or worry about what they'll inherit if I die. I also will not work myself into a hole in the ground at 65+ yrs old like my mom and dad did saving up for a retirement I'll never get to see, god bless them.

Most men make all these big retirement plans and are dead within 1-3 yrs of retiring. So many of them diagnosed with cancer or heart disease or early dimentia in the middle of the "oh I just need to work another 1 or 2yrs" stage. I've seen it happen to so many guys, including my father, my retirement plan is to remain debt free, stack as much money as possible to be able to stop chasing the $$ as young as possible and actually retire and my goal is to enjoy every minute of it while I'm healthy enough to do it. When I get old and become terminally ill or die I want to do it with nothing but my last penny in my pocket, debt up to my neck, and not a dollar of equity left in my house and the roof and walls about to collapse from neglect. f*** the 4% rule.
That’s why I go to Florida to buy hardly used cars and boats. So many do the “I’ll buy a fancy or expensive [insert toy here]”, then they retire, move to Fla., break a hip, their bestie strokes out, and they never use said [insert toy here]. Live well now but don’t be frivolous, save accordingly, because one day you may wake up and things that used to work, won’t. Don’t look in the rear view and regret not doing things when you had the chance..viva la freedom!
 

Mark from MA

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Re: whole life.

What a freaking waste of money that turned into. I just let mine lapse as I’m not paying those kind of rates that will jump next year then keep jumping like Mexican beans.
Told the wife if you want the money from insurance when I’m dead (if I go first) then YOU pay the premiums.

Funny part is they are willing to reinstate me if I pay before 12-1. Payment was due late Oct.
My wife and I look at life insurance as not needed as we have no large debt at all, decent owned assets and considerable savings. Though we get life and accident thru work right now, however its south of 200 grand each and take the minimums our companies give us. Its probably cheap to get more.....and maybe we should while we are working....but its really not needed.

In retirement, We won't have any whole life policies..............

We both work and if one of us strokes out the other can afford to live on one paycheck and the work insurance payout, until retirement. My wife will get more, as she will get my pension payout.

If we both stroke out we are giving the kids plenty, house, 401K, pensions, assets...etc. How long we live, will depend on how much they get.......typically the older off we are the better
off they should be and it should pad their retirement.

My parents.....will probably leave me 1/3 of a house in a trust....nothing else. Odds are we will leave my kids way more than that. Good enough for me.
 
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SFC13557

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Don't you have to enroll in Medicare when you are 65? No choice.
Not if you're still working and have health insurance.
If your Company has a 401K plan start early and at minimum contribute the 5% so they match it.
Basic strategy is when you're young you can invest in riskier funds, 5-10 yrs from retirement you start changing to more stable funds.
 

one-eyed Jack

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Then don’t forget to protect your assets in a trust so the politicians can’t rape your family when you croak. And there are permanent and revocable trusts. It’s all very interesting. And you better have your shit together or your family will lose more than they need too.
A trust? Then the whole friggin world knows what your assets are ? No thanks. Jack.
 

Mark from MA

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A trust? Then the whole friggin world knows what your assets are ? No thanks. Jack.
Any real estate owned is public record. So Im not sure what you mean here. I can go on On X on a map of my town and find my house and land with my name on it in seconds.
If your house and land is in your name, i can do the same with yours..............I also see neighbors who I know, whose houses are in trusts that I don't recognize the name.......

I would think with a trust, you can hide the actual owner alot better by naming a lawyer who will disburse the trust as a trustee executor only and totally hide all parties. Im pretty sure this is how rich people and celebrities buy real estate.

If you would rather have the government take your property for medical bills and leave nothing to your kids....... that's the other option......other than create a trust.

You can give it to your kids beforehand, but if any of them get in legal jeapordy, or divorced, guess what, the claimant in the lawsuit or the ex spouse will own half your property.
This is one reason why we kept my younger sister out of the trust, as she was the one most likely to be divorced. And now guess what, she's going thru a divorce, so luckily we protected my parents house from getting taken by her spouse in the settlement. Because she is not a trustee.

Had my parents just given the house to all of us......my ex brother in law would own 1/6th of it, and we all would have to buy him out.

Other assets should be in a will......to protect from probate and direct them to the person who they go to.

The only problem with the trust is that it is a taxable entity. But it does protect the property in most cases from medical bills and long term expenses. There is no free lunch, .gov will get a cut in most cases.
 
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LittleCalm

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A trust is exactly how you make it harder for someone to know who owns the property. Unless you name it The One-Eyed Jack Trust.
 

Dennis in MA

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This is because of the borderline scam of charging customers based on a percent of their assets, not for the amount of time spent assisting the client.

I concur. But people are penny-wise and pound-foolish. By building in the advisory as part of the asset management, you have an open line of communication to a skilled financial professional. You don't wonder, "what's this going to cost me?" before picking up that phone like you do with your attorney.

CPA's operate teh same way. They probably overcharge for what they do on an annual basis. But you've got a resource that knows your situation.

Most folks will NOT pay a subscription fee nor a by-the-hour fee. The truly rich will. Well, they already have the $. But I can't see your average 2-income, 1.9 child family shelling out $5,000 per year for financial advice. They'll rarely feel like they are getting their $'s worth.

And it isn't about time, it's about skill and knowledge. People don't pay you for your time, they pay you to know how to fix a problem.

Bob has a sore tooth. His best friend Bill is a dentist. So he goes in to talk to Bill.

"Bob, that tooth's gotta come out."

"What's that gonna cost me?"

"About $350."

"THREE-FIFTY! How long does it take???"

"Oh, I'll have you out of that chair in about 8 minutes flat and on your way home."

"EIGHT MINUTES!?!?!? I'm gonna pay you $350 for 8 minutes of your time? That's like $2500 per hour. Are you insane."

"Bob, Bob, calm down. If it's the hourly rate you're worried about, I can make it last as long as you want."
 
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