Well I guess I can't argue with that.
I'm not so sure it's a proper reading of the law but until it goes to court this is what we have.
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How long did your LTC-A take in your town???
- Thread starter Doc Holiday
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I'm not so sure it's a proper reading of the law but until it goes to court this is what we have.
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Where does that law state the a MA (or other) license becomes invalid after 60 days? It would appear that failing to get a drivers license with that time limit would be a violation of 265:35, but not enable a conviction for driving without a license.
Actually, it probably would protect the person from the charge of carrying without an LTC but not from the felony federal charge of felon in possession.
What would be more interesting is an LTC holder who is convicted of a crime in another state that renders him/her/they ineligible to obtain a MA LTC, but MA fails to revoke the LTC because of a delay or error in communicating the conviction to a system MA checks. In that case, the person would probably be protected as well.
That is the essence of our disagreement. Everything else is a detail stemming from this.
What if one ages substantially during the validity period of an LTC and their hair goes from brown to gray? Does their LTC become invalid because they no longer have the brown hair as part of the description under which their LTC was issued? Or what if they gain or lose a lot of weight? Suppose their vision degrades to the point they can almost but not quite pass the vision test for a DL? Can they be convicted of driving without a valid license even without a suspension or revocation?
@42 the other stupid thing about this too is this license auto explode garbage..... what happens if the person lacks clearly defined residency? For example say a guy lives in Fitchburg. he has an LTC and a house with his wife and kids. They divorce. Wife cleans him out. he is now homeless and has his LTC and a Makarov. Every week he's in a different state on someones couch. Maybe a third of the time he is in mass with someone but it changes constantly. He gets his mail in different places. Not filing taxes or voting anywhere. Please tell me which state he is lawfully a resident of, considering that the guy hasnt laid down roots anywhere. Is he a Maine resident because he got food stamps in maine while at his cousins for 3 weeks before he moved back to MA? What is he? where does he reside? ![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Do you see how insanely stupid this is?
Asserting that someones license blows up "cuz theyre not a resident any longer" is retarded.
This is why "residency at the time of application" is actually a thing.
I really wish Stephen Dearth had his real day in court, it would have ended this faggotry with guns and "residency" forever. (Stephen Dearth is a US citizen, that at one time, had no formal state of residency in the US because he lived in Canada or something. As a result because of faglaroid US federal law, Stephen could not legally buy a handgun as a US citizen in any
state because he didnt make a residency claim in any state. )
Would you tell Stephen Dearth he had no right to carry a gun in the US as a citizen because he had no state of residency and couldnt retain his LTC because it automatically blew up when he moved to Canada? Really?
Do you see how insanely stupid this is?
Asserting that someones license blows up "cuz theyre not a resident any longer" is retarded.
This is why "residency at the time of application" is actually a thing.
I really wish Stephen Dearth had his real day in court, it would have ended this faggotry with guns and "residency" forever. (Stephen Dearth is a US citizen, that at one time, had no formal state of residency in the US because he lived in Canada or something. As a result because of faglaroid US federal law, Stephen could not legally buy a handgun as a US citizen in any
state because he didnt make a residency claim in any state. )
Would you tell Stephen Dearth he had no right to carry a gun in the US as a citizen because he had no state of residency and couldnt retain his LTC because it automatically blew up when he moved to Canada? Really?
There are issuing authorities in MA telling people the same thing, so there's that. There's a small dump city off the upper half of 495 that tells people "When you move out your license is valid until it expires, then when it expires you have to obtain a non resident licenses because we can't renew your old one any longer. "
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There was one interesting case regarding "assumptions" about licensing law.
An individual was charged with unlicensed possession of a gun that required and FID or LTC (not sure which). He asserted the "expired license makes it a civil non-renewal offense" and the prosecution went forward on the basis of the "gnomish orbital legal mysticism" time limit on the validity, claiming that the protection obviously did not last for 15+ years. The court ruled that it did.
The quote about the NH 60 day driving license is circuous in probando with a bit of bogosity thrown in to the mix:
An individual was charged with unlicensed possession of a gun that required and FID or LTC (not sure which). He asserted the "expired license makes it a civil non-renewal offense" and the prosecution went forward on the basis of the "gnomish orbital legal mysticism" time limit on the validity, claiming that the protection obviously did not last for 15+ years. The court ruled that it did.
The quote about the NH 60 day driving license is circuous in probando with a bit of bogosity thrown in to the mix:
- Party A offers a bogus interpretation of MA law claiming provisions absent from the law exist
- Party B requests proof citing law
- Party A offers a bogus interpretation of a NH law as proof by example of his original claim (The NH law does not invalidate a MA DL, or even claim is it not recognizes, it just imposes an obligation to get a NH DL within 60 days). So, misinterpretation of a NH law proves that a mis-interpretation of a MA law is correct. Well, two wrongs sometime do make a right - but not in this case.
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Mesatchornug
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quoted to give bonus points
Would you like to see the paperwork? The question was a setup, this is one I've seen with my own eyes. Revocation was a full day after the charge "unlawful possession - REVOKED" even was in all caps. So apparently an actual record of revocation is not required for it to be considered revoked
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It has been said that the highest form of flattery is imitation, so this was meant as a gesture of respect to DR Grant.
Depends on what the person got charged for, and do you know if the original incident resulted in a suspension or not? "revoked" or "active" are not the only two statuses.
Of course if the state suspended it and didnt tell the person that's one thing,. and that provides an opportunity for any decent attorney to blow it apart.
Now if this happened when a state actor takes the LTC and says "your license is getting revoked" then its more difficult to argue that its still valid.
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Actually, I would. If you cannot post it, PM me and you can send it by email or attachment to a PM.
You asked for a specific example of the DL, I gave you a specific example of the DL. You don't like it so you refuse to acknowledge that I gave you exactly what you asked for and try to obfuscate it with some word salad.
You move to NH from MA and do nothing with you DL and it becomes invalid in NH after 60 days.
I sent it to Comm 2a years ago, you can get it there.
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You have failed to provide a law that says that, but do offer proof by declaration.
I replied by pointing out that noting in the law state the MA license becomes invalid after 60 days. I asked you to show me where in the law it says that, while agreeing one could be charged with failing to provide a change of address but not with unlicensed driving. "Must obtain a NH DL within 60 days" and "Out of state licenses not recognized after 60 days" are two different concepts, and offenses.
Do you have any more evidence other than declaring yourself to be correct? We could go around forever with this "You do not understand, I told you I was correct" junk.
Can you mention a case name or something to make it easy to find in the Comm2a records?
The charge was exactly as quoted, specifically the word "REVOKED"
The arrest was a charge of RO violation, but that was due to a court error. My lawyer was handling surrender as my guns were in storage and I was in custody. They picked up the guns then charged me as quoted. The next day, might have been 2 days, I get a revocation letter dated 1 or 2 days AFTER the charge. Oh and the court error was no service on the temp RO (from my crazy ex who I hadn't even spoken to in a year), so the whole incident was caused by that mistake.
So you werent actually served with a 209A before this happened? How did you know that you had to surrender your guns though if you were never served? (or was this through some roundabout means)
I provided a link to it ,
AND YOU then quoted the sub-section in your response. The RSA defines what how non-NH DL are handled when you move to NH. After 60 days they are no good.
How much more of a link to the law do you need, sober up a little and read what's there.
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A 209A generally includes a gun surrender order from the court which is effective immediately and not dependent upon the LTC being revoked or suspended.
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If must be a reading comprehension thing, or I missed some of the text. Below is the text I was looking at (is there something else I missed?). I am having a hard time finding the part where it states the MA License becomes invalid in NH and that one can be convicted of driving without a license in addition to the charge of violation 265:35.
263:35 Nonresident Who Establishes a Residency in the State. – Notwithstanding the provisions of RSA 261:44 or any other law to the contrary, any nonresident driver of a motor vehicle who holds a valid driver's license in another jurisdiction, upon the establishment of a bona fide residency in this state, shall have a maximum of 60 days from the date his residency was established to obtain a driver's license issued by the state of New Hampshire
Wasn't even a 209A, a 208 https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartII/TitleIII/Chapter208/Section18 with a line added to surrender. Unusual, but it is was it was. I think (just speculating) that this was because there was no accusation of abuse and it was pending a divorce complaint being filed.
And as you pointed out, it's not revoked until it's revoked, it certainly wasn't valid but that's not revoked, as you have made very clear. And I did surrender, as soon as I knew about it,which was AFTER the arrest, my lawyer handled the surrender because I was in custody. The charge came AFTER that and specifically stated REVOKED. Which you have made clear doesn't happen until they actually go through the procedure. You can't have it both ways.
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Very interesting - never knew about the 208. Interesting that they need to add a surrender order for a 208 but it's automatic for a 209A and now for a 258E as well.
It's a subsection that defines reciprocity of DLs
In other words, NH honors the DL of other states when you move to NHfor up to 60 days, then the DL is considered invalid
And reciprocity is a subsection of 263.1 which require you to have a valid DL
The surrender was an amendment to an existing 208, which was was partly the no abuse thing I'm sure, but also because I held FFLs in both NH and MA and a MA dealers license and the judge didn't want to affect my earning potential. Wasn't that nice of her.
The funny part was that when I did find out about the temp amendment, my ex had claimed to the judge that she hadn't know about the guns. Think about this, when we were together I'm doing transfers in the Livingroom and had 2 cases of Russian SKSs in the basement, and I would come and go in full PO uniform, kept a handgun in a lockbox on the nightstand, and she claimed not to know. When I got it vacated she contradicted that statement by testifying that that she knew and had no problem with my owning guns. WTF What she didn't know was that by the time she went for the amendment I had surrendered the FFLs and MA license and got rid of all but a few guns, and those were in storage more than an hour away.
And since I know it's being thought, why did she go for the RO thing. When we separated we both said we wanted to try reconciling, I did not want to put my kids through what I went through. But in the end she didn't ever agree to talk and her past behavior, well lets just say it was clear she was done with me. So I settled into visitation and focused on the kids, but I wasn't going to be the one to file first. And there is the catch. She was a Jehovah's Witness and couldn't file for divorce unless I was abusive or unfaithful. I wasn't JW but they knew me at the Kingdom Hall. If she did they would disassociate her (a real thing, her sister was disassociated, had to walk out of their mother's house and never heard from again). She predicted, quite accurately, that if she made my life a living hell I would file for divorce.
And thanks to MA, even though this was a single incidence in my life, happened decades ago, and everything has been dismissed, vacated, and sealed, MA still holds it over my head like a 10 ton block of concrete. Ya, it's hard to put it behind you when there is someone that keeps holding it over you.
That's a tough road, a convoluted one. It doesn't shock me that the system resulted in a c********** outcome for you.... ive never heard of a non 209 resulting in gun surrender but its clearly not impossible. Apparently there are judges that like to weave stuff out of whole cloth..... usually the other types of restraining orders are things like restraining the neighbors from stepping on your property because of a dispute or things like that..... or other types of conduct but might be annoying but not necessarily Criminal.....
The 208 is a standard part of the divorce summons & complaint. I had asked a family court lawyer for whom I served numerous court papers about whether confiscating guns/licenses could/would be part of a 208. The 208 is designed to keep the person from converting funds, selling property, etc. without court permission while the proceeding is going on. My attorney told me that confiscation of guns could be added to a 208 but that most judges didn't like to do that and instead would recommend the woman to get a 209A as the proper vehicle to confiscate the guns/ammo/mags/licenses.
So it can be done, but is likely rarely done.
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Read the legal update regarding the 258E .... it's only a matter of time.
wildwest
NES Member
Back on topic 
my renewal in Westfield was only 4 weeks
my renewal in Westfield was only 4 weeksAh well, at leastTexas respects my Mass permit more than Massachusetts.You don't have the option of renewing it as It technically ceased to be valid when you took up out of state residence.
Artie
NES Member
Renewal in Seekonk
10/13/22 - RCVD renewal letter from DCJIS
10/14/22 - Per town website, completed Firearms License Application and mailed w/ $100 check, awaiting call for appointment
10/20/22 - Rcvd call from Police and scheduled an interview for November 7th @ 1:30pm
11/3/22 - Rcvd call from Sgt and he had to cancel my 11/7/22 appointment... moved it to this date. Completed interview, picture and got a receipt. Was told the wait can be up to 8wks
11/25/22 - Rcvd my LTC
10/13/22 - RCVD renewal letter from DCJIS
10/14/22 - Per town website, completed Firearms License Application and mailed w/ $100 check, awaiting call for appointment
10/20/22 - Rcvd call from Police and scheduled an interview for November 7th @ 1:30pm
11/3/22 - Rcvd call from Sgt and he had to cancel my 11/7/22 appointment... moved it to this date. Completed interview, picture and got a receipt. Was told the wait can be up to 8wks
11/25/22 - Rcvd my LTC
Boston
10/15/22 Received reminder from DCJIS
10/17/22 Emailed BPD Licensing
10/19/22 Received email from BPD with instructions for online renewal
10/20/22 Completed online renewal paid $100 got receipt
12/15/22 Waiting...
12/21/22 Received LTC Renewal receipt should get new license in 8-10 weeks
Utah
10/17/22 Received reminder from Utah
11/15/22 Completed online renewal process including uploading new photo
12/6/22 Received new Utah license. License was missing some information (printer problem)
12/7/22 Emailed Utah DPS BCI with picture of defective license
12/13/22 Received new license with correct information
New Hampshire
1/6/2023 Completed and mailed renewal application
1/25/2023 License received
Boston
1/25/2023 Still waiting...
2/2/2023. New license received today. Includes new picture (from my current drivers license; must cross-reference with RMV) and new PIN.
108 days from renewal initiation to receipt of new license.
10/15/22 Received reminder from DCJIS
10/17/22 Emailed BPD Licensing
10/19/22 Received email from BPD with instructions for online renewal
10/20/22 Completed online renewal paid $100 got receipt
12/15/22 Waiting...
12/21/22 Received LTC Renewal receipt should get new license in 8-10 weeks
Utah
10/17/22 Received reminder from Utah
11/15/22 Completed online renewal process including uploading new photo
12/6/22 Received new Utah license. License was missing some information (printer problem)
12/7/22 Emailed Utah DPS BCI with picture of defective license
12/13/22 Received new license with correct information
New Hampshire
1/6/2023 Completed and mailed renewal application
1/25/2023 License received
Boston
1/25/2023 Still waiting...
2/2/2023. New license received today. Includes new picture (from my current drivers license; must cross-reference with RMV) and new PIN.
108 days from renewal initiation to receipt of new license.
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