How do you know a C&R is safe to shoot?

[matt]

I've been poking around the net looking at C&R firearms. There is alot of interesting stuff out there. Tempting to get my C&R right after my LTC comes in and start stocking up!

Are these safe to shoot? Is todays makarov (just as an example) ammo more powerful than it was then? Is there a way to proof the guns to make sure they won't blow up in your hands while shooting?

I know this question is a little on the generic side, but some general guidance would be helpful, such as a source book to check such things out.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[firtree]

I think that the safe answer is take it to a gunsmith. Of course I have
been guilty of not heeding that advice in the past. I would say that it all
depends on what your are getting, and the condition it's in. An unissued
Mighty Mak I would just clean and shoot. Those things are a BLAST and I
really, *really* regret selling the one I owned in Florida before moving to MA.
Ammo availabilty is pretty good now, and they are fun to shoot. (The sights
stink and the blowback action has some recoil for a little round, but who
cares?!). I'd say, though, that if the gun is not packed in grease, or you didn't
buy it from someone you trust, take it to a 'smith for a checkup.

F

 

[Len-2A Training]

C&R rifles are a horse of a different color.

Frequently they are re-arsenaled, meaning that someone assembled it from mis-matched parts. Who knows if it is still headspaced correctly, etc.

ONLY safe thing to do is to get headspace gauges and check each one after thoroughly disassembling, cleaning and lubing the gun. That's why I have not shot one of my C&R rifles to date. Haven't taken the time to clean and check the headspace on them.

 

[MikeD]

After you get your c&r license, send a copy off to Brownells and get the FFL discount on headspace gauges. It only takes a few minutes to check the headspace on c&r rifles and they're well worth it.

 

[BigBill]

I purchased all the "Field" headspace gauges for all my C&R guns first. The field headspace gauge is the last gauge it has to pass before its pulled out of service and repaired. If the bolt closes on the field gauge don't shoot the gun. Then i did buy some "No Go" gauges for a few of them. I did get an 8mm "GO" gauge for checking the headspace when i change out barrels.

I have only had one gun fail the headspace gauge test so far. It was a ufixem from Century.

 

[SKS Ray]

Pay attention to notes on forums about certain ammo types too. Some surplus ammo is a little too powerful for some rifles. Take Turkish Mausers for example, Turk 8mm ammo is considered too hot for certain Turk Mausers, (older small ring models I think). The same goes for M1 Garands with soft primered ammo and high powered ammo which can damage internal parts. SKS rifles can be tricky too with modern production comercial ammo having primers too soft that result in uncontrolable full auto, or slam fires with can hurt you or even kill you.
These rifles are all fun to shoot and collect. Don't fear them, just understand them and make sure you do some homework and ask any questions, no matter how dumb they may seem. Everything i've learned has been from internet forums and asking questions. Sounds scary and hard to trust but I usually wait till I get about 3 of the same answer from experts and smiths. [lol]

 

[Miserai]

and when you do shoot the rifle i would recomend examining the cases, checking for ruptures or other marks that shouldnt be there.

 

[BigBill]

When reloading for the military semi-auto's there are thicker walled nato primers available from CCI the large rifle primers are CCI#34. They have small rifle primers too. The military rifles that have floating firing pins along with the thin walled regular primers in standard ammo can cause slam fires. Another thing to watch out for is the 308nato guns. Some of these guns have fluted chambers and they should be used with 308nato ammo only. Using 308win cases in these guns can cause the cases to crack and split in fluted chambers. Plus on some of these guns the higher pressure 308win round shouldn't be used. With the military semi-auto's some have adjustable gas systems so the gun has to be adjusted to the ammo your shooting and it must be readjusted when you change brands of ammo too.

 

[Dirigo]

if the gun has a bolt matching the barrel its pretty likely to be ok

 

[Len-2A Training]

if the gun has a bolt matching the barrel its pretty likely to be ok

I respectfully disagree. You should ALWAYS check the head-spacing before firing these old battle guns. You don't want it blowing up in your face and can't otherwise ensure that the headspace hasn't gone beyond the safe point to shoot, even if it is all original.

 

[Lynne]

if the gun has a bolt matching the barrel its pretty likely to be ok

I respectfully disagree. You should ALWAYS check the head-spacing before firing these old battle guns. You don't want it blowing up in your face and can't otherwise ensure that the headspace hasn't gone beyond the safe point to shoot, even if it is all original.

Agreed. Had a friend who bought a mosin (all matching parts) that saw a lot of battle. The headspace was screwed up. Don't assume that every's okay.

 

[Nickle]

If you're reloading for Military Weapons, I suggest Winchester or CCI primers. They are the least likely to give you slam fire problems. Rem 7 1/2's work well in AR's as well.

 

[JimR]

if the gun has a bolt matching the barrel its pretty likely to be ok

Not always. Many of the recent Russian re-arsenalled guns are forced matched. But I have never found one to not headspace.

 

[BigBill]

I found one gun out of many that didn't headspace. Its that "one" that worries me.

 

[JimR]

I found one gun out of many that didn't headspace. Its that "one" that worries me.

I would like to think that the majority of these rifles are headspaced when re-arsenalled. I need to buy another go gauge. I let someone borrow mine and haven't seen it since. Don't remember who either.

 

[NEtracker]

Except for the CMP M1's (those have been checked, fired),
using a Field Gauge for Headspace checks is wise..
Inspection of the receiver for cracks, and inspection of the barrel, etc.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Except for the CMP M1's (those have been checked, fired),
using a Field Gauge for Headspace checks is wise..
Inspection of the receiver for cracks, and inspection of the barrel, etc.

The Danish M1 I got from CMP (2000) had so much cosmoline on it, that I am convinced that htey never head-spaced it or test fired it either.

 

[NEtracker]

My Dane VAR arrived super clean.
I break everything down when I get 'em for more cleaning, inspection & lube. The 03's were gooped up quite a bit, and definitely not test fired, with solid tubes of cosmo in the brls.
Better to be safe, and gauge all...

 

[Nickle]

I recommend you use a NO-GO gage, not a FIELD gage. NO-GO is a tighter spec. If it fails a FIELD, it will also fail a NO-GO.

 

[Garys]

I would like to think that the majority of these rifles are headspaced when re-arsenalled. I need to buy another go gauge. I let someone borrow mine and haven't seen it since. Don't remember who either.

I would think, but of course I could be wrong, that a weapon that was re-arsenalled and then immediately put into storage would have been brought into "like new" condition during the process. Of course, I wouldn't be my hands, eyesight, or life on that.

Speaking of which, does anyone know of anyone in the greater Brockton area that can inspect MilSurps?

Gary

 

[Len-2A Training]

Gary,

Maybe Paul Dias in Hanson? (781) 447-9057

He's an auctioneer, FFL and very knowledgeable about old guns (going back to Civil War).

Don't know if this would be something that he does or not, but call and ask him. If not, ask him who he knows and trusts.

 

[Garys]

Thanks for the tip, Len. I'll have to call when I get back from FL.

Gary

 

[Lynne]

Thanks for the tip, Len. I'll have to call when I get back from FL.

Gary

Have fun and travel safe!!

 

[Garys]

Thanks. Of course it's for work, not pleasure. It's tough work, but somebody has to do it! <G>

Gary