How Close should I fire?

[DecOFlaherty]

Fearing ricochet, How close would you feel comfortable firing at something fairly solid?
Someone is looking into benchmark testing on bulletproof materials.

115 grain, 9mm FMJ and Hollow Point.

I'll probably try with a slight angle.

 

[22lr]

How about not at all? That bullet is going to hit something eventually. I think professional outfits have controlled areas that make this testing safe.

 

[allen-1]

IDPA uses 10 yard minimum for steel

 

[Al-Jim19]

Depends on the material, but for something you expect to cause a ricochet 10 yards minimum, more if you want to be safer. If it’s steel or metal make sure it’s very flat and swings freely or is angled downward slightly. That will make it safer but just realize that nothing is certain and you still run a small risk of injury.

 

[Canndo]

“You’ll shoot your eye out, kid”

 

[whatluck]

how about a remote fire setup?

 

[yanquidog]

Like this?

 

[NavelOfficer]

All shooting involves risk, so anything could happen.
I regularly shoot into my earthen-backed pistol pit at 3 yards (PPC match distance). There are tree stumps and rocks in the mix, so it's always possible that something could fly back; often dirt and bark. Eye protection is always suggested....
My experience has been that .22 LRs seem to whistle back, even from 25 yards.
As far as steel targets go, I'd simply use frangible bullets to minimize any ricochet risk. That said, I'd still maintain about 10 meters with .308 and larger since debris from the plates can still splatter you. .45 ACP, .223 and 7.62x39 can be almost point blank, although it may not be the typical firing distance (my steel plate isn't nearly as clean as in the videos).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh3QAvy1_uo


Hmmmm, looks like they've added a bullet for the M1 Carbine, although I don't see it offered on their website...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y971DUdFhzo

 

[MGnoob]

With a proper steel target that isnt damaged(dimpled or cratered)and that is properly mounted at appropriate angle you can shoot extremely close..7 yards or closer.
Depending on the material being tested a ricochet could go anywhere..id be more worried about it going through the ceiling than causing injury.It might be more important that it is a flat target than "fairly solid".. shooting at a rock up close would be a bad idea for example

Often times i see indoor ranges put wooden frame around indoor steel targets to catch alot of the spatter to prevent wear and tear on the range, you could do this outside seems kind of silly

 

[NavelOfficer]

“You’ll shoot your eye out, kid”

You mean like this kid?

 

[42!]

I think it all depends on what you are protecting against.
I routinely watch other shooters from 10 to 15ft behind the firing line, with steel plate targets at 30ft, and will get hit with pieces of copper jacket, some fairly large. Not with enough force to break skin but if it wasn't for keeping my eye protection on, it would be a bad day.

So if you were setting up some kind of test booth where there may be observers without eye protection, you'll need it pretty much fully enclosed. It may be just thick impact resistant Plexi behind the gun, but something should be there.

 

[Bmcl322]

If you have to question it, don't do it.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

How about not at all? That bullet is going to hit something eventually. I think professional outfits have controlled areas that make this testing safe.

This, if you can't contain the bullet don't do it

 

[Admin]

how about a remote fire setup?

+1

 

[drgrant]

Fearing ricochet, How close would you feel comfortable firing at something fairly solid?
Someone is looking into benchmark testing on bulletproof materials.

115 grain, 9mm FMJ and Hollow Point.

I'll probably try with a slight angle.

I'd be firing the gun from behind a plywood barrier, LMAO. (or a remote setup with a string).

I have some direct experience with this too, lol.... actually the low velocity shit is potentially worse because it tends not to stick into the
target. I got hit in the wrist with a FMJ 230 gr .45 round that bounced off a piece of bulletproof glass at about 15 feet.

If it's a decent JHP and its moving fast enough, it'll probably just get stuck in whatever the material is. In that same piece of glass the .45 bounced off
of, the speer gold dot 165 gr .40s I launched at it expanded and stuck into the glass.

Part of the problem is the material makes all the difference. If it was something hard (like AR500 steel) the bullet is just going to splatter and maybe youll get some jacketing discard. If its something that can store energy and release it (like BP glass, plexi, acrylic, etc) thats when the "fun" starts to happen.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

If you have to question it, don't do it.

If everyone thought like this, then hardly anything great would ever get developed. I mean yeah, safety is great, but its not that hard to test something
like this and be relatively safe in doing so... So if you had a time machine, would you tell Elmer Keith "If you have to question it, don't do it." Nobody gets a .357 or a .44 Magnum.... noam sayin?



-Mike

 

[Bmcl322]

If everyone thought like this, then hardly anything great would ever get developed. I mean yeah, safety is great, but its not that hard to test something
like this and be relatively safe in doing so... So if you had a time machine, would you tell Elmer Keith "If you have to question it, don't do it." Nobody gets a .357 or a .44 Magnum.... noam sayin?



-Mike

Ugghhhh... Again, Mike? with the extreme notions of time machines & the like.... Agreed you can set things up to be safe. No you wouldn't tell Elmer Keith, don't do it. & people should always push boundaries, explore, take risks, and invent.

 

[Wrench75]

This guy says 10 yds is not enough.

 

[MisterHappy]

Whatever range you shoot at, make sure the video is recording!

 

[ront02769]

Guy living up the street from me around seven years back decided to shoot at some solid shit (story varies widely, in his basement, outside against blade of an excavator, etc......but drunk figures into all of them) and indeed did manage to shoot himself in the eye....so unlike my moms warning (run with that stick you’ll put your eye out) it actually happens

 

[amm5061]

Guy living up the street from me around seven years back decided to shoot at some solid shit (story varies widely, in his basement, outside against blade of an excavator, etc......but drunk figures into all of them) and indeed did manage to shoot himself in the eye....so unlike my moms warning (run with that stick you’ll put your eye out) it actually happens

The epitome of play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[dans]

Having worked testing various devices for a while, I would be surprised if there aren't standards to follow - especially for life safety type of devices like this. I would research to find the standards and follow them. Start with the NIJ. I think these are the people who spec out the class of protection provided by ballistic vests. Then check competitors web sites to see if they list out any useful info.

Second, with ballistic vests, there are 2 concerns. Will it stop the projectile? how much will the projectile deform the material? Unless you are talking about ceramic or other hard protection, Kevlar will still give a good punch before stopping occurs. A hard backstop may not be appropriate for the scenario. How would you determine how much or even if deformation occurred with a hard backstop?


When you finally get around to doing your own testing, USE YOUR HEAD. If you wouldn't shoot at something without your product in the middle, don't shoot with the product.

 

[Tooth]

Make sure you get a video for the funny pic/vid of the day thread.

 

[whacko]

I'd be firing the gun from behind a plywood barrier, LMAO. (or a remote setup with a string).

I have some direct experience with this too, lol.... actually the low velocity shit is potentially worse because it tends not to stick into the
target. I got hit in the wrist with a FMJ 230 gr .45 round that bounced off a piece of bulletproof glass at about 15 feet.

If it's a decent JHP and its moving fast enough, it'll probably just get stuck in whatever the material is. In that same piece of glass the .45 bounced off
of, the speer gold dot 165 gr .40s I launched at it expanded and stuck into the glass.

Part of the problem is the material makes all the difference. If it was something hard (like AR500 steel) the bullet is just going to splatter and maybe youll get some jacketing discard. If its something that can store energy and release it (like BP glass, plexi, acrylic, etc) thats when the "fun" starts to happen.

-Mike

I absolutely agree that slower projectiles are more apt to be a problem. I run the plate shoot practice sessions every Wednesday night a the club. When it comes to getting hit by shrapnel.....45acp is way more apt to have shit coming back at the shooter and timer operator. When I hear shit bouncing around on the line......most of the time the guy at the line is shooting a 45.

 

[ToddDubya]

So if you're trying to decide if it's bulletproof, you must have some criteria for how you're defining "bulletproof". A piece of cardboard is probably bulletproof against 9mm at 2000 yards.

Like others have said, fire it remotely and the distance issue goes away.

Good luck.

 

[dingbat]

Underground parking garage, from behind someone else's car.
GTG