House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

Mike S · Jul 21, 2014

Friday said:
And folks wonder why NES is perceived as anti-cop?

The thing is, I would bet that a poll of the 351 COP's would show the majority in support of the Senate bill, the issue is with the leadership of MCOPA who are for the most part the big city commissioners that are aligned with the MAIG (or whatever they're calling themselves this month)

It really strikes me as ironic that they keep saying "we know our community best" yet, these big city chiefs who are proponents of suitability for the most part barely know the people who actually live in the city, if they know them at all.

JJ4 · Jul 21, 2014

Can anyone find anything about MAIG actually supporting shall-issue FIDs? I think Timilty mentioned it in the senate debate - but it would be a good point to bring up to the house of representatives.

Disgusting that these extremists are protesting the bill now... unreal.

Whutmeworry · Jul 21, 2014

goodzilla said:
Momentum seems to be swinging to moonbats on this one, with the press in full support.

My top three counter protest signs would be:
- "Tyrants Among Us"
- "Your Oath: Protect and Defend the Constitution, remember?"
- "FID Suitability = Will sue your town and YOU personally"

Is there anyone available for a counter-protest with almost zero notice???

StevieP · Jul 21, 2014

Here's my email out today:

Greetings Representative Peterson, and Senator Moore,

I understand that the latest iteration of the 'gun violence' bill has gone back to the house, and is now re-named to S.2284.

I ask that you please vote in-favor of this amended bill. One key component of this latest version is that it removes the 'suitability' for FID cards. I see this as important, as to put that back in WILL expose towns, cities, and the Commonwealth to lawsuits which THEY WILL LOSE.

In the past, applicants for LTCs who were either denied, or got their license with restrictions were told "Well, we're not infringing on your 2A rights, because there's this FID thing you can get instead."

Many cities and towns do not apply "suitability" at all. They just give blanket denials or restrictions on every applicant, without providing any reasoning. While I appreciate that there is an ability to go to court to challenge a denials, I do not feel that it's prudent to force people to have to go to court in order to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed civil right. While I am a card-carrying member of GOAL and the NRA, the taxpayer in me does NOT want my tax "donation" to be used to write cheques to the NRA, SAF, or Comm2A. If someone is not a "prohibited person" and is applying to get an FID card, then they should get it. Period.

Criminals, gang-bangers, and the people actually committing crimes with guns don't ask for permission in the first place! Forcing law-abiding licensed gun owners to jump through ever higher flaming hoops won't do a thing to reduce inner-city violence perpetrated by people who aren't inclined to follow ANY laws. If they did obey laws, then the already-existing ones against robbery, rape, assault, or murder would have already sufficed.

Please vote YES on the current bill S.2284. Those opposing it are using flawed logic, raw emotion, or outright lies to push their civilian disarmament political agenda.

rickinma · Jul 21, 2014

My rep just told me again it will go to conference committee but that they don't know who will be appointed yet - he also stated that the police chiefs and gun control nuts would be protesting the bill tomorrow. He mentioned they could try to jam a bunch of crap into it in the next two weeks.
We need to really pour it on!

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LoginName · Jul 21, 2014

rickinma said:
My rep just told me again it will go to conference committee but that they don't know who will be appointed yet - he also stated that the police chiefs and gun control nuts would be protesting the bill tomorrow. He mentioned they could try to jam a bunch of crap into it in the next two weeks.
We need to really pour it on!

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There's something ironically amusing when gun control nuts are protesting a gun control bill.

Only in MA.

jefftk · Jul 21, 2014

LoginName said:
There's something ironically amusing when gun control nuts are protesting a gun control bill.

Only in MA.

We need to be pointing out every chance we get that they are displaying themselves as uncompromising extremists.

StevieP · Jul 21, 2014

LoginName said:
There's something ironically amusing when gun control nuts are protesting a gun control bill.

Only in MA.

Without the suitability thing in there, is there much in this current bill to call it a "gun control bill" (at all)? Most everthing else is related to schools, NICS reporting, etc. "Suitability for FIDs" WAS the gun control part (I may be missing some thing(s)).

mattyw · Jul 21, 2014

Mike S said:
They've made it very clear that they're far more interested in restricting freedom than they are in public safety.

Here's an update from State House News:

POLICE CHIEFS, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ACTIVISTS TO RALLY OVER GUN BILL
To show support for a measure stricken from gun legislation that cleared the Senate last week, police chiefs plan to rally outside the State House Tuesday with members of the Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence, Jane Doe Inc. and Stop Handgun Violence. Former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis plans to join police at the rally, according to organizers, who say police chiefs will express their support for a measure that cleared the House and gives chiefs more discretion to deny rifle permits. Sen. James Timilty, a Walpole Democrat who carried the bill in the Senate and chairs the Legislature’s Public Safety Committee, said last week he supported removing the provision from the Senate bill. "This was something that I felt very strongly about," Timilty told reporters, stating that the amended bill would "reflect the constitution." Under current law, local licensing authorities must give people who pass a background check a firearms identification card. Police chiefs, however, have the discretion to issue a license to carry a handgun. The House bill proposed to extend the same discretion for handguns to firearm identification cards for rifles and shotguns. The Senate voted 28-10 on Thursday for a Sen. Michael Moore amendment to remove that section of the bill, while retaining the ability of police chiefs to deny FID cards if the applicant fits into a category on the prohibited persons list, such as someone convicted of a felony. The overall bill cleared the Senate on a voice vote, and is now likely destined for a conference committee. With ten days remaining for formal sessions, the House met for 12 minutes Monday and adjourned until Tuesday without naming gun bill negotiators. - M. Norton/SHNS

open carry rally time

mattyw · Jul 21, 2014

jefftk said:
We need to be pointing out every chance we get that they are displaying themselves as uncompromising extremists.

seriously, this bill is about common sense gun laws, and they are opposed to it!

Dadstoys · Jul 21, 2014

rep308 said:
I exchanged emails with my State Rep and he stated that the police chiefs and stop handgun violence will be protesting taking the rifle authority away from the chiefs tomorrow, Tuesday the 22nd.

Seems like a good time to call to thank and encourage our supporters

The Chiefs should really just stfu.
It's the abuse of the system by some of them that got it to the point where it's an issue at all.
They took a set up, that in theory should have been a good one and misused it to deprive law abiding people of rights.
It was ment to give them the power to keep someone that was a known scumbag but never been charged from getting a gun.
We had one guy in our town years ago that was getting drunk and beating the piss out of his wife and kids regularly.
The wife would never press charges because she was scared to death of the guy.
When he went down and tried to apply, the Chief told him to pound sand.
That's what the law was put in place for.

Mike S · Jul 21, 2014

Dadstoys said:
The Chiefs should really just stfu.
It's the abuse of the system by some of them that got it to the point where it's an issue at all.
They took a set up, that in theory should have been a good one and misused it to deprive law abiding people of rights.
It was ment to give them the power to keep someone that was a known scumbag but never been charged from getting a gun.
We had one guy in our town years ago that was getting drunk and beating the piss out of his wife and kids regularly.
The wife would never press charges because she was scared to death of the guy.
When he went down and tried to apply, the Chief told him to pound sand.
That's what the law was put in place for.

Hey, that's what the Waltham COP was doing. Irony.

Dadstoys · Jul 21, 2014

Mike S said:
Hey, that's what the Waltham COP was doing. Irony.

Wonder how his renewal will go? [rofl]

Knuckle Dragger · Jul 21, 2014

Mike S said:
...Sen. James Timilty, a Walpole Democrat who carried the bill in the Senate and chairs the Legislature’s Public Safety Committee, said last week he supported removing the provision from the Senate bill. "This was something that I felt very strongly about," Timilty told reporters, stating that the amended bill would "reflect the constitution." ...

With all due respect, Sen. Timilty is poorly informed if he thinks that keeping FID cards 'shall issue' addresses the constitutionality of our licensing laws. I respect that fact that he's trying to throw us a bone, but our licensing law will still not "reflect the Constitution".

Friday said:
And folks wonder why NES is perceived as anti-cop?

Chief's aren't cops, they're cops turned politicians. They are a breed apart from police officers and rarely reflect the sentiments of rank and file cops. It's a mistake to equate the police with police chiefs.

crazymjb · Jul 21, 2014

^Very true. Police Chiefs are political appointees. I have good friends who are cops in some of the nicest neighborhoods in MA (Newton, Wellesely) and some of the worst (Holyoke), and they are all pro-gun.

Mike

Coyote33 · Jul 21, 2014

goodzilla said:
Momentum seems to be swinging to moonbats on this one, with the press in full support.

My top three counter protest signs would be:
- "Tyrants Among Us"
- "Your Oath: Protect and Defend the Constitution, remember?"
- "FID Suitability = Will sue your town and YOU personally"

How about:
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander."?

Mike S said:
The thing is, I would bet that a poll of the 351 COP's would show the majority in support of the Senate bill, the issue is with the leadership of MCOPA who are for the most part the big city commissioners that are aligned with the MAIG (or whatever they're calling themselves this month)

It really strikes me as ironic that they keep saying "we know our community best" yet, these big city chiefs who are proponents of suitability for the most part barely know the people who actually live in the city, if they know them at all.

Funny, but Ed Davis admitted at one of the Boston hearings that it is not the gun owners out past 128 who are the problem; but it is the CRIMINALS IN THE CITIES.

jefftk said:
We need to be pointing out every chance we get that they are displaying themselves as uncompromising extremists.

So true. They wanted compromise, and finally got one.

mattyw said:
open carry rally time

Matty's "go time"?

mattyw said:
seriously, this bill is about common sense gun laws, and they are opposed to it!

Good point.

Dadstoys said:
Wonder how his renewal will go?

What's good for the goose is good for the sow just doesn't ring the same way.

Knuckle Dragger said:
With all due respect, Sen. Timilty is poorly informed if he thinks that keeping FID cards 'shall issue' addresses the constitutionality of our licensing laws. I respect that fact that he's trying to throw us a bone, but our licensing law will still not "reflect the Constitution".

Chief's aren't cops, they're cops turned politicians. They are a breed apart from police officers and rarely reflect the sentiments of rank and file cops. It's a mistake to equate the police with police chiefs.

With all due respect indeed, you are so right. Plus, it isn't about hunting, either.

Obie1 · Jul 21, 2014

Mike S said:
The thing is, I would bet that a poll of the 351 COP's would show the majority in support of the Senate bill, the issue is with the leadership of MCOPA who are for the most part the big city commissioners that are aligned with the MAIG (or whatever they're calling themselves this month)

It really strikes me as ironic that they keep saying "we know our community best" yet, these big city chiefs who are proponents of suitability for the most part barely know the people who actually live in the city, if they know them at all.

I've lived in my town of under 2000 residents for 30 years. I've never met the Chief of Police, nor him me. Neither of us could pick the other out of a lineup, yet somehow he knows if I'm "suitable"?

Permanent Waves · Jul 21, 2014

The rally tomorrow only shows who the real "extremists" are.

They are not happy that a "Gun Bill" does not further reduce the Rights of the People, and so they rally.
Only shows the real truth behind their agenda.

yanici · Jul 21, 2014

I'm not seeing the urgency and vital interest right now that was there before. We gotta get hot on this and keep pushing. Call, call, call. Email.

Maybe we need a new thread to push the need for follow through. I dunno.

LoginName · Jul 21, 2014

JJ4 said:
Can anyone find anything about MAIG actually supporting shall-issue FIDs? I think Timilty mentioned it in the senate debate - but it would be a good point to bring up to the house of representatives.

Disgusting that these extremists are protesting the bill now... unreal.

Here @ 49:40...

https://malegislature.gov/Events/Ev...&eventDataSource=VideoService&videoSource=sen

MAC2187 · Jul 21, 2014

Danor · Jul 21, 2014

My rep emailed back and said "It looks like a committee will review this bill then send to us for a vote."

lagrangian · Jul 21, 2014

I emailed and called my rep, telling the office I wanted him to support concurrence. Haven't heard anything back, but since the MA House is an autocracy, if DeLeo wants this to go to the Conference Committee, that's what's going to happen. Representatives almost never cross the Speaker (DeLeo or previous speakers) and I can't see them doing it for this bill of all bills.

rickinma · Jul 21, 2014

If it is going to committee, don't we have to pour it on the state senators too?
Is it too early? Do we make supportive calls the same time the Chiefs and Mom's want action are "protesting"?

lagrangian · Jul 21, 2014

The state Senate has no direct role in this anymore. The two outcomes are:
1) The House votes to accept the Senate bill. In that case the bill goes to the governor.
2) The House votes to reject the Senate bill. In that case it goes to a Conference Committee. The bill reported out by the Conference Committee is unamendable (per Legislature rules). All the Senate (and the House) can do is vote the bill up or down.

Odds are that a bill coming from the Conference Committee will be worse than the Senate bill, hence the push to pressure our representatives to vote in favor of agreeing with the Senate bill.

The5thDentist · Jul 21, 2014

I'll exclude Chief Joe Solomon of Methuen, because he & his cute licensing officer [ yes, she is cute ] GET IT bigtime & respect your 2A rights, but the anti 2A d-bag chiefs in this state need to do their jobs & actually fight some real crime instead of being lazy-ass twerps who enjoy this delusion that they are a select segment of society.

Any chief who shows up to this rally tomorrow is a disgrace.

mbullism · Jul 21, 2014

Obie1 said:
I've lived in my town of under 2000 residents for 30 years. I've never met the Chief of Police, nor him me. Neither of us could pick the other out of a lineup, yet somehow he knows if I'm "suitable"?

The intent of suitability isnt that the chief knows everybody in town, it lays within the fact that the cop IS likely to know most of the dirtbags, and the addresses that get the most calls... My chief knows im suitable because he doesnt know me, if that makes sense. Where suitability fails isnot the discretion, its in the abuse ... Now the COPs find themselves rallying with ... With.. Well... Nuts.

LoginName · Jul 21, 2014

The5thDentist said:
I'll exclude Chief Joe Solomon of Methuen, because he & his cute licensing officer [ yes, she is cute ] GET IT bigtime & respect your 2A rights, but the anti 2A d-bag chiefs in this state need to do their jobs & actually fight some real crime instead of being lazy-ass twerps who enjoy this delusion that they are a select segment of society.

Any chief who shows up to this rally tomorrow is a disgrace.

I'll be surprised if mine doesn't... Chief Ed "Watertown Strong" Deveau [angry]

Coyote33 · Jul 21, 2014

T&G article:
Refining a gun bill (12 comments...so far)

delgrifith · Jul 21, 2014

At this point what are the odds that FID suitability doesn't return? The chiefs and Rosenthal will go in there and say " here's the deal... Give us suitability back and we will endorse this bill as " good gun control".

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House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

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