House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

[additionalmc]

Many of those old guns are Pre-1898 and alot of sellers online dont require an FFL to take delivery of them, that's probably how these guys got them. They're usually chambered for blackpowder only .32 and .38 S&W which I doubt these guys paid attention to. They probably crammed in some .38 specials.

 

[Coyote33]

So now what? Where to from here?

We are in a new calendar year. What is the timeline and process for submitting new bills? We have a more favorable (but still lopsided against us) legislature this year.

It would be nice to have some new initiatives FOR our side, and also some cleanup bills to straighten out the existing mess.

 

[Fixxah]

What do you propose?

 

[DarthRevan]

What do you propose?

Getting the State to pass a bill that makes the AWB and any ATF rulings null and void.

- - - Updated - - -

Also repeal the gun free zones around schools.

 

[exo]

Getting the State to pass a bill that makes the AWB and any ATF rulings null and void.

- - - Updated - - -

Also repeal the gun free zones around schools.

Yeah, and I want a pony.

 

[DarthRevan]

Pipe dream that it is, it's tiresome that if I had grown up in NH instead of MA, I could be buying G19 magpul mags for $15, and access to AR pistols.

 

[cekim]

Yeah, and I want a pony.

patience... I know they don't deserve it, but step 1 is we have to disabuse people of this idea that we cannot be free AND live in MA. The real answer is that we can, but, it will require a LOT of work to bring this state back into compliance with the Constitution.

 

[Coyote33]

What do you propose?

I am really in favor of changing the existing laws. Take what we have, and make hundreds or even thousands of corrections. I understand this is madness, but if we do this in smaller pieces, it will improve life quite a bit. My own personal preferences are to add Sunday hunting, remove the .22LR at night limitation for predator hunting, get rid of the magazine limits, get rid of the "AWB" stuff, and remove all the law enforcement exemptions to laws the rest of us are asked to follow.

Getting the State to pass a bill that makes the AWB and any ATF rulings null and void.

Also repeal the gun free zones around schools.

There you go. Now, to break that down into ACTUAL language. First, you need to ID which laws affect this, then ID what you want changed, then pick someone to sponsor it, and a means of making it happen.

patience... I know they don't deserve it, but step 1 is we have to disabuse people of this idea that we cannot be free AND live in MA. The real answer is that we can, but, it will require a LOT of work to bring this state back into compliance with the Constitution.

Actually, step 1 is to get the right people in office. This is the only way to change the laws. We have a unique opportunity RIGHT NOW with Beaton's seat in Shrewsbury. That is a chance to put in another PRO-RKBA candidate, versus losing another seat. I consider each seat won as 2 more points in our favor.

 

[cekim]

Actually, step 1 is to get the right people in office. This is the only way to change the laws. We have a unique opportunity RIGHT NOW with Beaton's seat in Shrewsbury. That is a chance to put in another PRO-RKBA candidate, versus losing another seat. I consider each seat won as 2 more points in our favor.

Chicken or the egg, but one way or another, we need some omelets.



Agreed.

 

[Quiet]

Chicken or the egg, but one way or another, we need some omelets.



Agreed.

Not poached?

 

[Squire]

I think a baby step would be to try to effect "Shall Issue" on Unrestriced LTC by attaching the same process for effectively getting a warrant from a judge to deny it (like with the FID).

I stated in another thread that I missed that our "compromise" on the FID didn't have the same process apply to LTC.

 

[Darksideblues42]

I would like to see a provision that says that either
a) A lawfully licensed citizen of the Commonwealth can posses any and all firearms, magazines or other accessories that a member of Law Enforcement may legally own (Since they "need" it for their own protection)

or

b) Any restrictions with regards to the possession, sale, ownership, carrying or usage of firearms, magazines, or related accessories shall be applied equally to all citizens of the Commonwealth, with the exception of possession while on school property will still be restricted to those acting within the scope of primary law enforcement and any firearms, magazine, or related accessory so possessed by said member of Law Enforcement will be subject to the preceding restrictions.

 

[Quiet]

I think a baby step would be to try to effect "Shall Issue" on Unrestriced LTC by attaching the same process for effectively getting a warrant from a judge to deny it (like with the FID).

I stated in another thread that I missed that our "compromise" on the FID didn't have the same process apply to LTC.

+1
I think that might be a good next step; get the legislature to homogenize the process of the LTC to the FID's process, removing the arbitrary power and inconsistent application of rights from LEOs and moving into the judiciary where "objective" criteria can be applied to all.

Could be sold as removing the unequal treatment of minorities in the cities and hacking away at white suburban privilege.

 

[FrugalFannie]

So now what? Where to from here?

We are in a new calendar year. What is the timeline and process for submitting new bills? We have a more favorable (but still lopsided against us) legislature this year.

It would be nice to have some new initiatives FOR our side, and also some cleanup bills to straighten out the existing mess.

I hope you have seen the latest GOAL weekly 'newsletter.' Looks like there may be a few pieces of legislation we can support. Perhaps if we support the legislation which undoes some of the crap as adamantly as we opposed the crap that was originally proposed after SH MA residents will gain some traction.

 

[Squire]

+1
I think that might be a good next step; get the legislature to homogenize the process of the LTC to the FID's process, removing the arbitrary power and inconsistent application of rights from LEOs and moving into the judiciary where "objective" criteria can be applied to all.

Could be sold as removing the unequal treatment of minorities in the cities and hacking away at white suburban privilege.

Careful, they may respond that equal protection under the law means Green towns go Red.

 

[Quiet]

Careful, they may respond that equal protection under the law means Green towns go Red.

You know that everyone around here is always pushing for things to get worse so that they can collapse and some of it hit the fan, maybe they'll call that "go time".

 

[jho]

I would like to see a provision that says that either
a) A lawfully licensed citizen of the Commonwealth can posses any and all firearms, magazines or other accessories that a member of Law Enforcement may legally own (Since they "need" it for their own protection)

or

b) Any restrictions with regards to the possession, sale, ownership, carrying or usage of firearms, magazines, or related accessories shall be applied equally to all citizens of the Commonwealth, with the exception of possession while on school property will still be restricted to those acting within the scope of primary law enforcement and any firearms, magazine, or related accessory so possessed by said member of Law Enforcement will be subject to the preceding restrictions.

b) can mean the cops get the same restrictions we do. Doesn't really benefit the common person. It also still creates gun free zones (killing spree zones) as per the second part.

+1 on "a"


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[Serapis]

I will try an be optimistic this year. I'm always let down, but damnit I'll try.

 

[Coyote33]

I hope you have seen the latest GOAL weekly 'newsletter.' Looks like there may be a few pieces of legislation we can support. Perhaps if we support the legislation which undoes some of the crap as adamantly as we opposed the crap that was originally proposed after SH MA residents will gain some traction.

I haven't yet (Friday afternoons: ie yesterday). I'll go take a look. Got a preview or review for us? Go.

 

[hv55maxx]

I would like to see a provision that says that either
a) A lawfully licensed citizen of the Commonwealth can posses any and all firearms, magazines or other accessories that a member of Law Enforcement may legally own (Since they "need" it for their own protection)

or

b) Any restrictions with regards to the possession, sale, ownership, carrying or usage of firearms, magazines, or related accessories shall be applied equally to all citizens of the Commonwealth, with the exception of possession while on school property will still be restricted to those acting within the scope of primary law enforcement and any firearms, magazine, or related accessory so possessed by said member of Law Enforcement will be subject to the preceding restrictions.

no on B for the school part yes on the first clause. complete wrong way to prevent harm to students.

 

[Darksideblues42]

no on B for the school part yes on the first clause. complete wrong way to prevent harm to students.

My thought process is that if we try to go for the whole thing, we will get shut down. This is a game of inches. We need to gain ground in what seems to be a reasonable way. If we sought to gain carry rights on school grounds, that would require a Federal change, and not something we can accomplish at state level only.

I either want to see LEOs subject to the same rules and regs as the rest of us, or restrictions lifted so that we have access to the same hardware they do. We should no longer accept the double standard.

 

[Coyote33]

My thought process is that if we try to go for the whole thing, we will get shut down. This is a game of inches. We need to gain ground in what seems to be a reasonable way. If we sought to gain carry rights on school grounds, that would require a Federal change, and not something we can accomplish at state level only.

I either want to see LEOs subject to the same rules and regs as the rest of us, or restrictions lifted so that we have access to the same hardware they do. We should no longer accept the double standard.

This is what I was saying in post #2092.

 

[NFD9]

I would like to see a provision that says that either
a) A lawfully licensed citizen of the Commonwealth can posses any and all firearms, magazines or other accessories that a member of Law Enforcement may legally own (Since they "need" it for their own protection)

or

b) Any restrictions with regards to the possession, sale, ownership, carrying or usage of firearms, magazines, or related accessories shall be applied equally to all citizens of the Commonwealth, with the exception of possession while on school property will still be restricted to those acting within the scope of primary law enforcement and any firearms, magazine, or related accessory so possessed by said member of Law Enforcement will be subject to the preceding restrictions.

Screw the school ground restriction.... It has done no good so far!
How many school shootings have there been since it was (federally) put in place?

CRIMINALS/KILLERS DON'T CARE ABOUT F**KING LAWS...PERIOD!!!

 

[Darksideblues42]

Screw the school ground restriction.... It has done no good so far!
How many school shootings have there been since it was (federally) put in place?

CRIMINALS/KILLERS DON'T CARE ABOUT F**KING LAWS...PERIOD!!!

We all know this.

However, since we cannot change Federal Law by acting at the State (or Commonwealth) level, we need to carefully choose our battles and strategy. Better to win by inches than lose by miles.

 

[FrugalFannie]

I haven't yet (Friday afternoons: ie yesterday). I'll go take a look. Got a preview or review for us? Go.

This is legislation that is being proposed with the support(?) of GOAL.
http://www.goal.org/legislation.html

 

[30Mauser]

My thought process is that if we try to go for the whole thing, we will get shut down. This is a game of inches. We need to gain ground in what seems to be a reasonable way.

Agree.

If we sought to gain carry rights on school grounds, that would require a Federal change, and not something we can accomplish at state level only..

Untrue. Federal law only prohibits unauthorized persons from carrying on school grounds.

The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is a federal United States law that prohibits any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(25).

It was introduced in the U.S. Senate in October 1990 by Joseph R. Biden and signed into law in November 1990 by George H. W. Bush.

MA law (MGL 269 s. 10 i) then defines who is unauthorized.. Currently, this includes all except LEOs and those otherwise explicitly approved by school management.

(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university...

This could be changed to include LTC holders, but we all know it won't be in this state in this century.

 

[Darksideblues42]

Agree.



Untrue. Federal law only prohibits unauthorized persons from carrying on school grounds.



MA law (MGL 269 s. 10 i) then defines who is unauthorized.. Currently, this includes all except LEOs on official duty and those otherwise explicitly approved by school management.



This could be changed to include LTC holders, but we all know it won't be in this state in this century.

I stand corrected, I read the GFSZA differently (admittedly on my phone so the formatting was off)

I just think that our best chance to get either of my earlier options passed would be to ignore the School Zone provision for now, and focus on the actual hardware exemptions first.

 

[Len-2A Training]

MA law (MGL 269 s. 10 i) then defines who is unauthorized.. Currently, this includes all except LEOs on official duty and those otherwise explicitly approved by school management.

This could be changed to include LTC holders, but we all know it won't be in this state in this century.

LEOs are exempt all the time. They do not have to be on duty per MGL.

 

[Coyote33]

Agree.

Untrue. Federal law only prohibits unauthorized persons from carrying on school grounds.

MA law (MGL 269 s. 10 i) then defines who is unauthorized.. Currently, this includes all except LEOs on official duty and those otherwise explicitly approved by school management.

This could be changed to include LTC holders, but we all know it won't be in this state in this century.

Doesn't NH basically allow anyone to be "authorized"? All this takes is to vote properly. Shrewsbury is having a special election to replace Beaton. Go support the right candidate there, and improve the odds of actually fixing this situation in Massachusetts. It IS possible.

I stand corrected, I read the GFSZA differently ... I just think that our best chance to get either of my earlier options passed would be to ignore the School Zone provision for now, and focus on the actual hardware exemptions first.

I think we need to hit them from every single direction all at once, repeatedly. Over and over and over again. We should do all we can as soon as possible, and unrelenting. Each individual has their own preferences of what they want changed, as does each politician. If everyone takes one piece of the puzzle, works on it, and keeps working it, and gets it to the right elected official (sometimes after working to get the right elected officials elected into office), we will PREVAIL! This kind of effort takes coordination and persistence. We have GOAL and had "It's Time 2A" to help coordinate this sort of stuff. Maybe they can do this, maybe we need some other structure, organization, or individual(s).

LEOs are exempt all the time. They do not have to be on duty per MGL.

LEOs exempt from AWB and high cap laws?

exempt from MA and US laws

 

[Cero]

Things in this state most likely wont change in large moves. It will be small moves to get to the bigger ones.
I'd like to see:
the end of the ag restrictions. This is already being worked on
end of mag restrictions. This could be postioned as class a is already for "large capacity" so this restriction should be removed.
Then assault weapon ban