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Hot Brass range in Springfield
- Thread starter mikeyp
- Start date
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Yeah Springfield is no Vegas. The casino is brand new.. and already the traffic is pretty light compared to what they thought. They are going to have a hard time keeping MGM open long term.
I think the Hot Brass range with do well even though its expensive. Its just really tough to keep a range open in a larger city in a liberal state. Smith and Wesson couldn't do it... your one incident away from being fined into oblivion or closed down.
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S&W didn't require a LTC to shoot which was their undoing.
cockpitbob
NES Member
I choked on my coffee when I saw a bow lane is $20 for 30 minutes.
LOL everyone thinks that regulatory pressure cause them to close, IMHO they just used that as a convenient excuse to close it. It was likely a cost center and someone said "not enough ROI". The same skinflint managenent that let QC slip, dumped factory tours, etc. The range closing was just another feature of the "new" Smith & Wesson....
In 2003/2004 I was stationed at Westover ARB and had a membership at the range. I used to shoot on Saturday's, range was clean, well lighted and well vented. To bad S&W caved and closed it to the public. Took a few classes there also.
JDL
NES Member
It had nothing to do with caving to the public. drgrant is very close to the truth. That range was incredibly expensive to run and maintain, there was no way that it would ever even come close to paying for itself. If it was operated as a LTC only range it may have closed even sooner, LTC only and membership could never come close to supporting the range. Most of the shooters were unlicensed and not members the casual walk-ins made up most of the customer base, and filled the range on Friday night for Friday date night and Saturday. During the week days the range could go empty no shooters or maybe one or two. Some evenings were better but the range was never filled during the week. rwl1955 who was your instructor at S&W?
jaypap
NES Member
S&W closed it's range when a prohibited person rented a gun and lane and took target practice there.
Lawyers went after them and they realized they had a fly in the ointment when you could walk in fill out paper work with a drivers license, say your not illegal and still be.
Smith & Wesson Shooting Sports Center temporarily closes; felon ...
I tried to post this link above it's probably me, just google it. This story was from Mass Live.
Lawyers went after them and they realized they had a fly in the ointment when you could walk in fill out paper work with a drivers license, say your not illegal and still be.
Smith & Wesson Shooting Sports Center temporarily closes; felon ...
I tried to post this link above it's probably me, just google it. This story was from Mass Live.
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Lol, yeah, that happened, but if you think that's the sole causative agent why the place closed, I have a nice bridge to sell you. Felons that visit gun ranges
get arrested all the time, it's probably happened a whole bunch of times from "bad" visitors that went to AFS, Bobs, MFL, etc. S&W "having one of these" was not
unusual. If a felon walking onto a gun range, lying on a disclosure, and renting was an insurmountable legal problem, no pay ranges in america would be open.
S&W closed the range because it cost too much to operate. That "event" was a convenient excuse for them to "segue" out and close operations to the public.
A place like that, doing the gross math even in just overhead, probably cost quarter million (or more!) a year just to keep the lights on and staff it with 2-3 people. Good luck recovering that unless you have tons of paid members or you're clocking walk ons at a good hourly clip. Other than when I went on NES factory tour there, I probably visited that shop/range a half dozen times and never have seen it "full".
-Mike
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Whereas, requiring an LTC is our undoing......
If an LTC is required to shoot and guests are not allowed at clubs how do you expect the shooter base to grow? More shooters = more votes for our side. It is that simple. In many ways we are responsible for our own undoing.
That’s the long game and we are losing.
Bob
turbo38gn
NES Member
I had a membership at the S&W range.. it wasn't cheap, but I can honestly say it was worth it. I went in all hours of the day, nites and weekends. Didn't care so much for weekend there as there were lots of questionable shooters on the line. The RO's were pretty good though, as they tried to keep everyone "inline" and pointing their guns downrange.. but when it was filled up, we left.. usually saturdays. I plan to join, HB, Kendall is good people, she's giving us a place we otherwise would not have. She's put her money on the line... this is one time I'll say, "I'm with her"
jaypap
NES Member
Keep the bridge, they never reopened after that arrest for murder.
turbo38gn
NES Member
I suspect the guy that came in and rented a gun on a monday nite at S&W and promptly blew his brains out might have something to do with closing... as well .. perfect example of why HB has the rules they have,..
Again, correlation doesn't = causation. A "felon that went to a rental range, then got caught doing as FIP for doing it" is hardly even newsworthy. Further, unless it could somehow be proven that S&W broke the law (which they didn't) there's no real place for the arm flapping to go. So that incident may have, at least at the moment, caused it to close, but I'd bet money it has absolutely nothing to do with why it never reopened. There were no huge legal obstacles for them to overcome that couldn't have been, etc. Except in the midst of all the noise someone said "well, waitaminute, this is obviously a waste of time anyways" etc. Combine that with the sinking revenue and waning obamascare fever.... (basically, before SH happened the industry was in a slouch at that point)....
-Mike
So how much money are they making on a vacant, empty range only used for matches? It must have cost a fortune to build but was good advertising for S&W and got shooters in to try their products.
turbo38gn
NES Member
exactly, not only matches, but it also used by employees for their own personal use... I believe it was a little bit of everything mentioned here, including a few situations not mentioned here. Such as the suicide on the range I mentioned, that never got the press that other like incidents did, the sale of guns, paperwork there was a mess, the feds were not happy.. . I believe that was a large part of the closing as well .. there are too many incidents and situations to mention here, the bottom line, the whole range, store was poorly managed and it took it's toll.
Nothing, but possibly? losing less than they were when the lights were on.
I agree its a great loss to shooters and smith didn't help themselves by closing it, but there have been a cascade of decisions since that
era that have kinda indicated they don't care about shooter-facing stuff like that as much anymore. A lot of it is the market has changed,
too, unfortunately. It's all about schloque now where shooters used to be a lot more intolerant of bad QC and stuff like
that. 65% of the guns sold now just end up in someones closet or a safe collecting dust.
-Mike
JDL
NES Member
The range hasn't been used for Matches in quite a long time and it was completely closed even to employees about six months ago. Maintaining a vacant building is cheep compared to running a range even if it is for employees only. The employee's hardly used the range since it has been opened to employees only. The range was almost always empty keeping it open was a waist. It is a myth that S&W employees are all shooters and gun owners. Also back when the S&W range was open the try a gun program really didn't drive any gun sales, also S&W was always being beat on by the local dealers for even selling guns at the store. S&W couldn't even give the types of discounts that the local gun shops could, if they did the local gun shops would complain. So the S&W store at the range was not even competitive sales wise. The only thing that was even a small money maker was the training programs, however that could not offset the money drain the range was. Who would purchase the S&W range if S&W put it up for sale. There is no way a privet enterprise could make the range profitable. I will also take exception to the comment that the Store and Range was poorly managed. It was not, however there was a lot of corporate influence and politics involved in what could be done as far as range and store management there was a lot of hands tying from above. Actually the range and store paperwork was in good order, however this is another story I can't get into, at least no in an open forum.
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JDL
NES Member
The S&W range is real expensive range to run. The negative air system is an incredible electrical eater and lane upkeep was always very costly and then there were the cost of lead trap clean outs by a hazardous waist co. on a monthly bases and heating and ac costs were very high. Not to mention Government Regulation. Twenty lanes to keep filled and payroll for safety officers. You would have to have some real promos to draw customers and keep the range full. Plus you would have to deal with Springfield taxing you to death. The member base would have to be large and to get that large of a membership you would have to offer some great incentives. Make people purchase your ammo only would help but still it would be a large bite to chew. I am not even sure S&W wants to sell it, it is a white elephant and most likely helps the bottom line more as a wright off then it ever did as a range. We don't know how profitable Hot Brass will be it is too soon to tell and it is a much smaller range with a lot less over head. What other indoor ranges are currently in operation in MA. I am not talking about Sportsmen's Clubs I am talking about stand alone indoor ranges and how many are 20 lanes?
This may be a better business that can turn a profit in another state other then MA.
This may be a better business that can turn a profit in another state other then MA.
